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    #46
    Originally posted by Jill_Ion View Post
    I respectfully disagree, Esquin, for the following reasons.

    Her treatment was not inhumane. She's not in a deep dark cell, being beaten. She's "living" in a VR.

    Waste? She's in a VR. She still exists. They can pop in there any time they want, and possibly they can take her "consciousness" out and put it in another AI, if that is what they want to do. I would agree with you if they had destroyed her programming, but they didn't.
    Exactly.

    She wasn't a product of the SG program. They didn't program her and had no idea what surprises may have lain hidden in her coding.
    Bingo.

    Teal'c didn't get his own apartment until S8, about 1.5 yrs after he started on tritonin. The SGC medical team, as well as Teal'c, kept track of his symbiote's growth progress. Most, if not all, of his travels off-base were with other SGC personnel (not counting the play in Family Ties). Plus, Teal'c proved himself to be an ally of the Tau'ri over and over and over and over and...well, you get the idea.
    Agreed.

    Todd never left the SGC, was always in shackles when being transported, and was always under heavy guard and behind locked doors.
    Again good point.
    Proud Sam/Jack and Daniel/Vala and John/Teyla Shipper!
    "We're Americans! Shoot the guys following us!"
    Don S. Davis 1942-2008 R.I.P. My Friend.

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      #47
      My problem with the VR thing is that do you think Ava knows she was transfered into a VR world. We know the replicators may be tricked to be in a VR world Weir did it to Oberoth, leader of the replicators. I mean Ava said one of the conditions of her release is that she isn't allowed to look for work in the scientific field. To me it means she doesn't know.

      So what happens if/when she finds out? I mean fifth went nuts when she thought Carter betrayed him. What is Ava gona do to Shepard? I had a picture in my head that Ava is gona escaped through Bill's World of Warcraft character.
      Stargate Revival Please!

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        #48
        Originally posted by YutheGreat View Post
        My problem with the VR thing is that do you think Ava knows she was transfered into a VR world. We know the replicators may be tricked to be in a VR world Weir did it to Oberoth, leader of the replicators. I mean Ava said one of the conditions of her release is that she isn't allowed to look for work in the scientific field. To me it means she doesn't know.

        So what happens if/when she finds out? I mean fifth went nuts when she thought Carter betrayed him. What is Ava gona do to Shepard? I had a picture in my head that Ava is gona escaped through Bill's World of Warcraft character.
        They didn't state it, so I *think* she doesn't know. Which may, as you say, lead to probs in the future. It depends upon whether she can feel emotions like betrayal or desire or ambition. Maybe they left it open just so it can be explored in the future, should they want to?

        LOL! Love the idea of Ava escaping through WoW!

        "I aim to misbehave." - Capt. Mal Reynolds

        "Alien locale is no excuse for lack of pineapples." - DP

        WALLACE: And if I don't?
        O'NEILL: We'll beam you up to our spaceship.

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          #49
          Originally posted by YutheGreat View Post
          My problem with the VR thing is that do you think Ava knows she was transfered into a VR world. We know the replicators may be tricked to be in a VR world Weir did it to Oberoth, leader of the replicators. I mean Ava said one of the conditions of her release is that she isn't allowed to look for work in the scientific field. To me it means she doesn't know.

          So what happens if/when she finds out? I mean fifth went nuts when she thought Carter betrayed him. What is Ava gona do to Shepard? I had a picture in my head that Ava is gona escaped through Bill's World of Warcraft character.
          She doesnt know but I like the idea of escaping through WoW.
          Proud Sam/Jack and Daniel/Vala and John/Teyla Shipper!
          "We're Americans! Shoot the guys following us!"
          Don S. Davis 1942-2008 R.I.P. My Friend.

          Comment


            #50
            The ending was completely stupid. In Stargate-land the only AI's capable of interacting with a replicator in a way that passes the Turing Test is another replicator. By implication the only civ capable of creating an AI are the Ancients.

            There's also a brain-to-computer duplicating machine, but to populate a virtual world with believable AI's that way would require massive numbers of civilians be sent to the robot world to have their brains copied.

            Where did millions -- or at least thousands -- of distinct AI's sophisticated enough to fool the prisoner come from? Hidden Asgard AI stash? Ancients playing Third Life on a lark? Was she simply tossed into an existing virtual internment camp already populated by wayward replicators whose identities had been erased and replaced with Earth-human ones?

            Never mind that this idea was ripped off in its entirety from a Star Trek episode. It insults our intelligence to have something this unbelievable thrown at us with no indication of where the technology came from or how it might be humanly possible.

            It smacks of a cop-out: the writers didn't have the guts to kill her and didn't want to have to be obligated by a loose end. I can imagine the conversation:
            "Hey, there's a writer's strike on anyway, thinking for ourselves would be like crossing the picket line. Let's just upload her like they did on Star Trek and break for lunch."
            "But what about the people watching the show? Won't they wonder where all those other AI's came from, or why we ripped off another show for no reason necessary to the continuity of ours?"
            "Nah. They just want to see Wraith guns and space babes. They'd never notice stuff like that. Anyway if anyone complains we can always flash 'em with the neuralyzer."
            "Isn't that from Men in Black?"
            "Yeah, so? Your point?"

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              #51
              The technology came from the Aurora class Ancient ships. You'd recognize those pods from "Aurora".

              Comment


                #52
                Here are my personal views.

                1: Was Ava tricked into entering a virtual reality world? We have no idea because we didn't see this part of the procedure. Maybe she had a choice as to whether or not she'd be aware that her world was virtual and she opted not to know. She could even have suggested the bit about not finding a job in any scientific field herself for two reasons. It would cut out the risk of her discovering that she was in a virtual world and she'd already had the experience of working in science. As she was programmed for social interaction she could take a different route which would give her the maximum opportunity to explore another aspect of herself.

                2: She was a security risk because, no matter where she was, some unscrupulous being could have tracked her down and reprogrammed her. There'd be no way of hiding this fact from her because she was an A.I. who had worked in A.I. development. Would she have enjoyed every minute of having to be kept under surveillance in case somebody kidnapped her and changed her nature? Would such a possibility have been worrying for her because, as Michael said, "And if I remember nothing of what or who I am -- if this consciousness is erased -- what is the difference between that and death?"

                3: Lee, Sheppard and Ronon were regarding her as a person. They knew that the I.O.A. would destroy her so they were trying to save her in a way which would also give her some kind of 'good life' even if it was in a virtual world. Lee's statement - "I'm just glad we were able to download her consciousness intact" says a lot about his views of her because 'consciousness' is something that humans and other organic beings have.

                4: Was the virtual world really a cruel and inhumane punishment? Transhumanists have thought up all kinds of possibilities for future human existence. One of them is living in virtual reality.

                What Is Transhumanism?

                If we could scan the synaptic matrix of a human brain and simulate it on a computer then it would be possible for us to migrate from our biological embodiments to a purely digital substrate (given certain philosophical assumptions about the nature of consciousness and personal identity). By making sure we always had back-up copies, we might then enjoy effectively unlimited life-spans. By directing the activation flow in the simulated neural networks, we could engineer totally new types of experience.

                Frank J. Tipler goes even further with his 'Omega Point Theory' where there's a cosmic computer at the end of the universe. Having read his book and the articles on his website I'm going to quote from the wikepedia article because it really does present the basic idea.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point_%28Tipler%29

                The implication of this theory for present-day humans is that this ultimate cosmic computer will be able to run computer simulations of all intelligent life that has ever lived, by recreating simulations of all possible quantum brain states within the master simulation. This would manifest as a simulated reality. From the perspective of the recreated inhabitant, the states near the Omega Point would represent their resurrection in an infinite-duration afterlife, which could take any imaginable form due to its virtual nature.

                Living in virtual reality is a human dream (although it's unlikely to be every individual human's dream). Many Stargate universe transhumanists would envy Ava if they knew about her 'virtual life' and there'd be transhumanist campaigns for access to the technology which would enable them to live in virtual reality as well.

                5: The most important part of Ava - her consciousness - still exists. Maybe in the future the Tau'ri will have a different attitude towards A.I.s so she'll be able to leave her virtual world by being downloaded into a new body.
                Last edited by ciannwn; February 9, 2008, 02:40 PM.
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                  #53
                  [QUOTE=Esquin;7676093]2 points taht have already been brought up.

                  Todd and Teal'c. Both where far bigger security threats then Ava ever was.

                  Todd breaks his bindings and sudden;y we have a creature that is amazingly cunning and can, with the right amount of skill, be almost unkillable.

                  Teal'c was even worse, at any moment his larva could of jumped into a host. We saw it happen in the pilot to Kawalski. And yet they let him roam free like that for years.[QUOTE]

                  I do not believe that either was as big a threat as Ava.

                  Teal'c's symbiote could have jumped yes but Teal'c would die in less than 2 days and SGC will know pretty quickly. Even if this happened we would have had an Adrian Conrad.

                  Todd was gaurded by SG personel round the clock and he hasn't been able to feed for a long time as evidenced in Miller's crossing. Not much chance of escape. He escaped the Genii prison cause he got some from shepard.

                  The threat they posed was weighed against the advantages they provided. The Intel that gave earth its greatest advantages against the Gaould and Wraith respectively.

                  Some of Teal'c's contibutions
                  Teal'c gave the address for Cimeria which led to the first meeting with the Asgard: Thor's Hammer Thors Chariot.
                  Gave us intel about the System Lord's
                  Zat Guns
                  His ties with the different Jaffa rebellion factions: The Haktil, The Sodan, Ratac.

                  Todd
                  Intel on the Wraith
                  Deactivation code for the Asuran Replicators
                  Asuran war tactics

                  Ava yes could have been an asset but the replicators are too big of a threat. The replicators are the biggest threat in the Galaxy. They had the Asgards beat. Yes, Ava had morality and loyalty to humans but so did Reese, the first replicator, She created the Spider class replicators as toys. Reese was child-like They were not meant to be evil but they wiped out their creators and several planets and Gaould system lords. I doubt even the armies of the Ori could win in an all out war with them. Further Ava was immune to present anti replicator weapons. If SGC thought her about Asgard beaming technology, for those who have seen Outcast you know what I mean, there are no more weapons on Earth or even the Galaxy that could stop her.

                  This threat compared to the fact that she could provide no intel. The VR solution might not be right I do not know. It could lead to abuse yes and if Ava finds out its a betrayal we get another fifth but what can we do?
                  Stargate Revival Please!

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                    #54
                    My concern isn't with the world but its inhabitants. Who exactly is interacting with Ava in the virtual world?

                    Numerous "virtual world" technologies exist, both created by the Ancients and otherwise. The problem is the software, not the hardware.

                    The problem are the AI's the prisoner will interact with: they would obviously have to think they're human, have memories consistent with life on Earth, et cetera, and their AI would have to be sophisticated enough to pass a replicator's version of the Turing Test.

                    There would have to be at least thousands in a virtual Earth operating at a level making them capable of interacting with Ava. Where did they come from? Where did their memories come from? Who wrote the AI code? What were the AI's before they entered the simulation?

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                      #55
                      It's possible that maybe through the succeeding years, the SGC had helped from the makers seen from episodes "The Gamekeeper" and "Revisions" and have made some developments. The VR populated with other AIs could be one of the developments. Then when SGA team found Orion, I'm sure, they've taken one VR pod back to Earth for study. Then this opportunity came and Lee thought this would be a suitable for Ava till the time where an AI can work along side humans.

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