What's with the rampant loss of characters? ~spoilers up to Doppelganger~

[Franklyn Blaze]

You know, it wasn't a very appropriate death. I didn't even feel the dreams were that scary, certainly not enough to give you a heat attack. I've dreamt worse personally. The death was pointless really, it could have been left out and I would have felt the same about the episode had it not been included. It didn't highten the tension. Hotzone had better tension, and all that took was a few redshirts.

[AmyE]

It's to promote cast "gelling".

More like cast "culling"....

[AmyE]

Yet the same problems doesn't exist on BSG which is also airing on SciFi or Eureka, which is also airing on SciFi so I doubt it's a SciFi problem but more of a PTB problem. A PTB that wants to turn Atlantis into a high cast-turnover show but lacks the skills to do so, that's the problem.

But the difference on BSG is anyone can easily come back as a cylon or it was all a dream and on Eureka someone can whip up some bring back to life machine or pull I was trapped in another dimension scenerio. In my mind no one is really seems dead for good on those shows...

[justhere1971]

[QUOTE=Mitchell82;7172400]Touche

http://forum.gateworld.net/image.php...ine=1190073930
http://forum.gateworld.net/image.php...ine=1190073930
As do I. I loved Carson and was not happy when the rumors about him started to come about and kept hoping it wasnt true and was very much active with the SCB campaign. But I was pleased with the way the story was handled but very much sad with his departure and glad he is coming back in some form. What I was trying to point out is the OP point that the way it was done was to piss off fans. I disagreed and pointed out that the way he is returning isn't fuzzy just we don't know excactly how it is being done.


I agree and disagree. The reason for getting rid of a main actor is never known by the fans but usually done for one of these reasons. 1. Money. 2. Creative differences. I don't see the stories as bad however each time it is done with tact and the portion you quoted was referencing the character in Doppleganger. Since I havent seen it I can't 100 % say how well it was done but the character in question is a minor character and IMO it is realisitc for someone to die from a rampaging virus.


I didn't think I was being considerate. Also I loved Carson as much as the rest and upset he was leaving but just like Dr. Fraiser was pleased with the outcome.


Mabey not but I am getting attacked not by you though. And see the thing is he was one of my favorites yet I still am being reasonable about this.[/QUOTE]
See he was a part time character. In an entire episode, even though he was in the credits, you may or may not have seen Carson. So it's easy not to get too upset over a character loss like that. I loved Carson, and I was surprised how they forgot about him in the next episode... but I was focused on the main team. So it didn't bother me too much.
I guess I am more upset over the other change because for me she presented something else. It's a circular argument. You root for the character you like, simple.

[erb]

too [/B]much.
I guess I am more upset over the other change because for me she presented something else. It's a circular argument. You root for the character you like, simple.

Well, how nice for you.

And the character you are more upset over, other fans will say they weren't upset over.

Like I said earlier, you would think with SGA needing all the viewers it could get, fans would show consideration to other fans who lost a character they cared for instead of downplaying the significance. (ie...just a supporting character, not part of the main team...)

Guess not, huh

[justhere1971]

Well, how nice for you.

And the character you are more upset over, other fans will say they weren't upset over.

Like I said earlier, you would think with SGA needing all the viewers it could get, fans would show consideration to other fans who lost a character they cared for instead of downplaying the significance. (ie...just a supporting character, not part of the main team...)

Guess not, huh

You seem to have overlooked the last statement of my post --- "it's a circular argument". Also want to point out - I am sorry for everyone who's lost a fav. character. Please read a post carefully before jumping.

[Falcon Horus]

Like I said earlier, you would think with SGA needing all the viewers it could get, fans would show consideration to other fans who lost a character they cared for instead of downplaying the significance. (ie...just a supporting character, not part of the main team...)

I have been on the receiving end of a lot of hugs and sympathy for loosing my favorite character so I can say fans do show a certain amount of consideration for other fans who loose their faves.

Yes, of course there's downplaying the significance, why wouldn't there be. As long as it's not yours that went or a major player there will always be downplaying.

[erb]

You seem to have overlooked the last statement of my post --- "it's a circular argument". Also want to point out - I am sorry for everyone who's lost a fav. character. Please read a post carefully before jumping.

I did get what you were saying and there is a lot of truth in it. We want what we want.

The thing is I've not involved myself in the "circular argument". I didn't say I was fine with the loss of your fav character.

I don't want to be misrepresented on that point.

But, I probably shouldn't have responded to your post responding to the post responding to my post as it can get a bit confusing.

[Falcon Horus]

But, I probably shouldn't have responded to your post responding to the post responding to my post as it can get a bit confusing.

Talk about being confusing...

[erb]

Talk about being confusing...

hee...That was my point exactly.

[justhere1971]

I did get what you were saying and there is a lot of truth in it. We want what we want.

The thing is I've not involved myself in the "circular argument". I didn't say I was fine with the loss of your fav character.

I don't want to be misrepresented on that point.

But, I probably shouldn't have responded to your post responding to the post responding to my post as it can get a bit confusing.

Truce. We all love the characters we love. And we can be sad & happy depending on the situation.

[Mitchell82]

The thread title says "'Up 'til Doppelganger". Last time I heard anything (but I haven't checked lately), they said Paul was returning, not Carson. Realistic, schmealistic. That's what Red-shirts are for. You do not kill off primary and secondary characters for realism.

JM has said since the start that it is Carson that is returning. I don't know how you can keep saying that. And unfortunatly killing off main characters from time to time does add to it. I loved the character and understand the frustration and I'm just not as upset because it was done well IMHO. What I really don't get is how JM and numerous cast members have said that Carson is returning and you keep saying he isn't.

Also, if you want real realism, as someone already said, you'd have to kill off more main characters because they're on the front line. And, really, just look at the past episodes and the spoilers. Not a single character

Spoiler:

dies in battle! They encounter the Wraith and the Genii and the Asurans and get shot at I don't know how many times, yet, the primary, secondary, tertiary and quaternary characters all die outside of battle! Veeeery realistic.

They all get injured which is enough for me since killing them all off kills the show.

And then there's

Spoiler:

Katie

. Such a quaternary character it's illogical to kill them off since they've barely had any screentime. Obviously just a cheap ploy to invoke more emotions from the few people who'd bonded with them. I call it bad and cheap writing.

I disagree.

[FallenAngelII]

I did say that I haven't kept up with the latest Carson-info. Last time I checked (months ago), they said Paul's returning. When asked whether Carson was, there was no answer. And there's also that little problem with the fact that Carson blew up into a million pieces.

He didn't Ascend because there were remains to send back to Earth.

Also, how is [spoiler]Katie[/b] an important enough character to be used for "realism" by killing them off? They might as well kill off a red-shirt but they do it to them instead just snatch a few cheap points.

The problem with this new trend of killing off characters is that it's not the Stargate Way. For 10 seasons of Stargate SG-1, only a handful of primary and secondary characters ever died or left the show. And never did more than two of them die/leave during one single season.

Now, within 6 episodes, we've lost Carson, Elizabeth, Kate and possibly

Spoiler:

Katie

. It's not the Stargate way to kill off important characters for drama. It's obvious they've run out of ideas and are resorting to such cheap trickery (or are "experimenting") because they're too lazy to come up with better storylines.

And who knows how many more will perish in the season to come.

[Red-Headed Earthling]

Honestly, I get bored when only redshirts are killed. Dramatically, it's a lot more interesting when you get to know a character before his or her demise. For the sake of continuity, they can't kill off ALL the central characters, but the tension really is greater when you know that a named character who is known and loved by the viewing audience could get whacked at any moment. (Notice I'm not talking about "realism" here- this is a show about space aliens!)

[Excellion_razor]

Um... what? They weren't forced, you say? Like Michael Shanks deciding to not renew his contract as a starring actor doesn't equate "quitting" as a starrign actor, forcing them to remove Daniel as a starring character?

Like Don S. Davis and Richard Dean Anderson deciding to pretty much retire didn't force them to write said characters out? Oh, BTW, stupid me. Richard quit after season 8. So season 9 had the removal of Richard, of course.


The point I'm trying to make is that there seems to be zero reason for all of these deaths (not to mention how pointless they are. No blazes of glory, except for Elizabeth, but she's not actually dead yet).

Carson died because they wanted to shake things up? But why did they feel the need to do so? And we know from interviews that Paul was very upset over it and didn't want to leave. Of course we know why Elizabeth was written off. Sam's taking command of Atlantis, that's why.

Kate, Kate just seems random. And so does

Spoiler:

Katie Brown. I mean, she's had, what, 10 minutes of screentime, tops? They might just as well just not mention her or only mention her in passing, but, nooooo. They have to kill her off!

These deaths are pointless and bad creative writing. It feels like they're too lazy to come up with good scripts so they just randomly kill non-fodder characters off in order to elicit strong emotions from fans (well, they're making us angry. Anger is an emotion).

Also, out of all of the major cast changes on SG-1, only two was the result of death; Janet and Jacob. And they weren't even main characters (like Elizabeth, not yet dead, but pretty soon I bet, Ford and Carson). The rest just Ascended (and then came back) or retired.

Actually Carson was never intended to be a main character. He just sort of caught on with the fans and producers. I know people love certain charaters and that change is sometime hard to accept. That said this is a chance to grow to love newer charaters that may or may not bring something new to the table.

As far as Weir goes her acting was lame as of late. Whether they wrote good episodes for her character developement or not it was her job to sell her role, and quite frankly she did a piss poor job in that department imho. Besides she totally had an irritating voice when she got excited. Glad she is gone.

And those that don't like the crossovers from SG-1, I am sorry but that show made it possible for Atlantis to exist. Without SG-1 there would have never been an Atlantis. Amanda Tapping brings a ton of acting ability and experiance to the show. Her character will evolve as the season progresses. She won't be the same all Carter that most of us know and love.

My message is just give the show a chance, and if you don't like what there doing, stop watching and try and find a better sc-fi genre show that is better. Good luck though, the line up on sci-fi sucks hardcore. I can't remember a more pathetic line-up on sci-fi. The network is going down the toilet.