What's with the rampant loss of characters? ~spoilers up to Doppelganger~

[VSS]

I agree, one doesn't have to kill people off to remove the character from the show. What they did with Daniel, for instance, was very creative (meaning they probably can't do it again, it's too unique). But, why not ship some of these people back to Earth for some made-up reason? I think TPTB think killing someone off adds more drama. I think it just ticks off the fans.

[P-90_177]

well on the plus side, they can still bring back ford and weir whenever they like and make it seem quite believable.

[IcyNeko]

Transitioning weir out in 4 years is kinda odd, considering that Hammond was there for 8.

[g.o.d]

well on the plus side, they can still bring back ford and weir whenever they like and make it seem quite believable.

And on that day, Satan will be skating to work.

[P-90_177]

i like ford. I hope he comes back.

[Mitchell82]

What's with the loss of characters lately?

First, Carson dies. And we all know he died because there were remains. No Ascension there. There's some fuzzy talk about Paul returning, but not as Carson or whatever, but that doesn't count.

Then, Elizabeth goes RepliWeir. Then, apparently, Kate Heightmeyer is going to bite the dust in "Doppelganger" and Zelenka is only going to be in 7 episodes out of 20 (and did anyone notice how long it took for him to appear on screen (or even speak through an intercom) in "Adrift" despite Rodney referencing him repeatedly?).

Was there a huge budget cut I didn't hear about? Or are they deliberately trying to piss the fans off? Or is Amanda Tapping's salary so huge they're now getting rid of secondary and tertiary characters to accomodate her?

No really, I just want to know the reasons and reasoning behind this spectacular failure in writing.

First you really should put the part about Kate in spoiler tags since it is a big one. Second the killing of Carson was not done to piss off fans and since when was Carson's return fuzzy? We know Carson is returning as Carson we just don't know how yet. What they are doing with Elizabeth is a good thing IMO it finally makes her interesting. What is the worry about Zelenka? Last I heard it was 15! The killing of characters is to make things more realistic and Kate isn't a huge loss. I know the plot and you can't have everyone survive a massive virus.

[ponycake]

What is the worry about Zelenka? Last I heard it was 15!

In fact according to JM's blog Zelenka is getting more screen time in Season Four than ever before, so hurrah for that!

[prion]

Um... what? They weren't forced, you say? Like Michael Shanks deciding to not renew his contract as a starring actor doesn't equate "quitting" as a starrign actor, forcing them to remove Daniel as a starring character?

When season 5 came to an end, all the actors' contracts ended too. Michael Shanks decided not to renew. He didn't quit. The rest of the cast could have easily done the same thing, so nobody 'forced' anyone to do anything. It could have easily ended up with half hte cast going 'nah, don't want to do it' also. It's the way that business goes. There one day, gone tomorrow. Producers/writers would be idiots not to plan for such an event.

[ses110]

I laugh when I hear Scifi wanted to shake things up. Atlantis has been shaken and stirred from the get go. It cannot be easy when most of the Actors have to look over there shoulder for the hatchet man. It's getting to the point the Actors have to run away if they see TPTB coming there way.

[borgprincess]

Apparently

Spoiler:

Katie Brown

is also rumored to be on the chopping block. I'm just totally thrown by this. It's not that I love her or anything. I'm quite indifferent to her (I might even dislike her slightly because of her

Spoiler:

screwing up McShep

), but I just don't care about her much.

But why kill her off?! She's a tertiary character! Heck, she might even be a quaternary character! The PtB can't possibly think people will go all "Wow! Great writing!" over this crap.

Well:
Doppelganger spoilers:

Spoiler:

I heard something tragic happens to McKay's girlfriend, which threw me because I wasn't overly fond of her but I liked McKay being with her and thought they should have acknowledged his relationship a little more often instead of in TWO episodes. What kind of character has a girlfriend and it's never an issue, like when he's off on a dangerous mission and she's left home worrying about him, that's never been mentioned or shown or anything. I don't necessarily *want* that to be in the show, but why give him a girlfriend if it changes nothing about his character? It hasn't impacted McKay at all, as far as I can tell.

And re: Kate Heightmeyer, she gets killed off in DG. Info here

I think the writers think killing off a huge amount of characters makes them hard-core. Along the lines of BSG and Heroes. What irritates me is that the structure of those shows makes it pretty clear that there's angst and people dying and that kind of thing happening. SGA set itself up along SG-1 lines, which is a lot safer than the other shows. They marketed themselves for one niche, and now they've just gone in a totally new direction. I don't think the BSG fans would take it too seriously [SGA seems almost try-hard] and it's certainly not making a whole heap of its own fans happy.

[erb]

The killing of characters is to make things more realistic and Kate isn't a huge loss. I know the plot and you can't have everyone survive a massive virus.

The problem with the so-called realism they are giving us is that it actually isn't realistic. Realism would demand losing more of the main teams....they are on the front-line. You're really meaning a pseudo-reality or all the major players should already be dead.

I love Carson. I became a fan of SGA because of Carson. I would be unhappy to lose him in any case, but if the death had been as a result of some major story arc or had a noticeable impact on another major character, I could at least agree that it had some creative merit. By the way, I am going on the assumption that tptb didn't have a fixed plan to bring him back, only a tentative one.

What I am seeing instead is the strings. Choices made for reasons other than storytelling ones. And that makes for much poorer stories.

With SGA needing all the fans it can get, you would think people who want more seasons would be a little more considerate of those of us fans upset with losses of characters important to us.

I imagine it's a lot easier to be "reasonable" when you haven't lost your favorite. I mean that generally, Mitchell82, not directed at you specifically.

[Mitchell82]

The problem with the so-called realism they are giving us is that it actually isn't realistic. Realism would demand losing more of the main teams....they are on the front-line. You're really meaning a pseudo-reality or all the major players should already be dead.

Touche

I love Carson. I became a fan of SGA because of Carson. I would be unhappy to lose him in any case, but if the death had been as a result of some major story arc or had a noticeable impact on another major character, I could at least agree that it had some creative merit. By the way, I am going on the assumption that tptb didn't have a fixed plan to bring him back, only a tentative one.

As do I. I loved Carson and was not happy when the rumors about him started to come about and kept hoping it wasnt true and was very much active with the SCB campaign. But I was pleased with the way the story was handled but very much sad with his departure and glad he is coming back in some form. What I was trying to point out is the OP point that the way it was done was to piss off fans. I disagreed and pointed out that the way he is returning isn't fuzzy just we don't know excactly how it is being done.

What I am seeing instead is the strings. Choices made for reasons other than storytelling ones. And that makes for much poorer stories.

I agree and disagree. The reason for getting rid of a main actor is never known by the fans but usually done for one of these reasons. 1. Money. 2. Creative differences. I don't see the stories as bad however each time it is done with tact and the portion you quoted was referencing the character in Doppleganger. Since I havent seen it I can't 100 % say how well it was done but the character in question is a minor character and IMO it is realisitc for someone to die from a rampaging virus.

With SGA needing all the fans it can get, you would think people who want more seasons would be a little more considerate of those of us fans upset with losses of characters important to us.

I didn't think I was being considerate. Also I loved Carson as much as the rest and upset he was leaving but just like Dr. Fraiser was pleased with the outcome.

I imagine it's a lot easier to be "reasonable" when you haven't lost your favorite. I mean that generally, Mitchell82, not directed at you specifically.

Mabey not but I am getting attacked not by you though. And see the thing is he was one of my favorites yet I still am being reasonable about this.

[erb]

What I was trying to point out is the OP point that the way it was done was to piss off fans.

I think it was the "shake things up" explanation fans had been given which is the cause of these thoughts. Unfortunately, or maybe not, (depending upon the individual viewpoint) we don't know exactly what happened. What it seems we do know(and if you have evidence to the contrary, please correct me...I crave information) is that TPTB were given the news that Stargate was being cancelled and Carson's fate somehow became entangled in the scramble to save SGA from a similar end. A character whom a good portion of the fans cared for needed to die.

Doesn't it make you consider the possibility that tptb were hoping for a big fuss...hoping to upset people enough to make them write to SciFi and give them evidence that we are out here watching.

If I understand you, you merely mean they didn't take this action for the sole reason of pissing people off. I can't imagine that either even if I like to vent otherwise.

I agree and disagree. The reason for getting rid of a main actor is never known by the fans but usually done for one of these reasons. 1. Money. 2. Creative differences. I don't see the stories as bad however each time it is done with tact and the portion you quoted was referencing the character in Doppleganger. Since I havent seen it I can't 100 % say how well it was done but the character in question is a minor character and IMO it is realisitc for someone to die from a rampaging virus..

Yes, you are right, we don't know everything going on behind the scenes. Part of the problem with maintaining coherency with a product such as a television series is how many creative influences you have bearing upon it. Unlike a book(s) with a single author who has complete control (ignoring the contributions of the editor)over the story(ies), we have several writers and producers in addition to the actors. And then there are the guys in black hats...network executives. So sometimes actors "must" go for something behind the scenes and I didn't mean to imply that getting rid of actors always results in a bad storyline.
But it sometimes does.

About the DOP character loss...like you, I haven't seen it and have no stance on it at present. I should have deleted some of the quote.

Mabey not but I am getting attacked not by you though. And see the thing is he was one of my favorites yet I still am being reasonable about this.

Well, I admit I'm not reasonable. He's wasn't just one of my favorites....he was the reason I made sure to watch. There is a difference.

Not all "fans" are fans in the same way. Some fans think "true" fans should never criticize any creative decisions. Some fans consider plot more important than character. Some fans consider character(s) more important than plot.

Maybe I'm not a "true" fan of SGA. The thing is...while I have to pay taxes and I have to die, as far as I know, watching SGA is something I don't have to do.

I am watching by the way. For now.

[ShaneMcC]

Maybe they'll kill off everyone and just have 43 minutes panning around the interior and exterior of Atlantis? It would make script writing much easier.

Brilliant I say!! But on the other hand, don't give them any ideas

[FallenAngelII]

First you really should put the part about Kate in spoiler tags since it is a big one. Second the killing of Carson was not done to piss off fans and since when was Carson's return fuzzy? We know Carson is returning as Carson we just don't know how yet. What they are doing with Elizabeth is a good thing IMO it finally makes her interesting. What is the worry about Zelenka? Last I heard it was 15! The killing of characters is to make things more realistic and Kate isn't a huge loss. I know the plot and you can't have everyone survive a massive virus.

The thread title says "'Up 'til Doppelganger". Last time I heard anything (but I haven't checked lately), they said Paul was returning, not Carson. Realistic, schmealistic. That's what Red-shirts are for. You do not kill off primary and secondary characters for realism.

Also, if you want real realism, as someone already said, you'd have to kill off more main characters because they're on the front line. And, really, just look at the past episodes and the spoilers. Not a single character

Spoiler:

dies in battle! They encounter the Wraith and the Genii and the Asurans and get shot at I don't know how many times, yet, the primary, secondary, tertiary and quaternary characters all die outside of battle! Veeeery realistic.

And then there's

Spoiler:

Katie

. Such a quaternary character it's illogical to kill them off since they've barely had any screentime. Obviously just a cheap ploy to invoke more emotions from the few people who'd bonded with them. I call it bad and cheap writing.

When season 5 came to an end, all the actors' contracts ended too. Michael Shanks decided not to renew. He didn't quit. The rest of the cast could have easily done the same thing, so noboday 'forced' anyone to do anything. It could have easily ended up with half hte cast going 'nah, don't want to do it' also. It's the way that business goes. There one day, gone tomorrow. Producers/writers would be idiots not to plan for such an event.

Maybe I'm just too stupid for my own good, but what's the difference between "Not renewing your contract" and "Quitting"?