What's with the rampant loss of characters? ~spoilers up to Doppelganger~

[ponycake]

Over a four year period not all the characters have come out of it unscathed, but I don't think the writers are exactly churning through the cast yet - I'll start to get worried when I tune in every week and not recognise anybody.

I'm not overjoyed about losing characters, because as fantastic as the special effects are that's not why I personally tune in, but on the bright side with such a number of changes in a relatively short time maybe things will stabilise and Atlantis wont be such a floating morgue this season?

[BigPharaoh]

Isn't the real reason why Carter is SGA is that AT was on contract, and it was a way for them to get her work, as well as try to boost atlantis ratings by brining in an SG1 character. What they don't realize is that Atlantis fans, are Atlantis fans; we love the atlantis characters. I fell in love with them from day one, and I really think that if they had just let it be for a while the cast would have "gelled". It's kinda weird how they complain that the cast hasn't gelled; they can't gell if you keep changing the cast and shaking things up needlessly. We can handle these things to a certain point; when grodin got killed some were upset but no one was up in arms, but when you get rid of people this frequently we really have nothing to hold on to.

They should just go with what works. For the first five years of SG1, it was Carter, O'neil, Teal'c, Jackson, and Hammond, and they didn't change it. That's why that cast gelled; they invested the time and effort into them without canning anyone becuase they couldn't figure out what to do with them. They should have just given the Atlantis team a chance.

[Agent_Dark]

people die all the in rl... and those people are in nice, secure and safe jobs. These people are in another galaxy, fighting life sucking aliens and nanite replictating robots. People keep saying Atlantis is its own show and stands alone, then complain that its not like SG1 because people keep dying... is it or is not supposed to be different?

And production and real-life issues are drastically different between SG1 and Atlantis. SG1 started on Showtime, had 2 seasons confirmed straight off the bat and a further 2 seasons locked in by the end of the first season. It had 4 seasons to play with and establish its arcs and characters. Atlantis (along with SG1 from its 6th season on) gets renewed on a yearly basis and doesn't know if it is getting renewed until basically after the season wraps. The move to Sci Fi obviously has its downsides and that's a pressure to perform in the ratings so it can earn its keep (cos it's an expensive show).

Atlantis can't be given a chance because it doesn't have the ability to set up for the future. It has to work now. If something is not working, they don't have the luxury of setting it up to fix it later (remember they don't get feedback on their work until well after they've finished it).

[VSS]

I am a fan of the S1-8 SG-1 and as such am used to a small, more-or-less permanent cast. Even when Daniel died, he was still around, so I don't count that as a cast change, much. In season 8 the cast was even smaller.

Anyway, as a new Atlantis fan I think there are just too many characters. I don't see how the writers can possibly do justice to each one of the main characters- in fact I still have a hard time telling just who the main characters are. I will admit I haven't watched a lot of episodes, but with SG-1 it didn't take too long to figure that out.

So I guess my vote would be character development, team "gelling" or whatever you want to call it. There's just too much going on on Atlantis. Even Adrift had too many characters doing different things at different times. And each one of those characters got cheated.

[Willow'sCat]

Zelenka will be in 15 episodes of S4. David Nykl said it by himself. But it´s not a reason to stop worrying about him

Huh, I thought he said in his blog thing that he was only in a couple of the eps in the back half?

Did I get that wrong, I honestly thought he was only going to be in a around 7-8 eps this year? Which would be a real shame.

On the point of too many characters on SGA that has been brought up; I maintain that most shows can only deal with two main characters and the others will always be background fodder (or to be kind supporting cast).

Take most shows, they usually end up with (if only by accident and not by design) concentrating on two or maybe three characters (Charmed seem to be able to do the three character thing, well I stopped watching after Shannon got fired... but it seemed to have a good balance).

I thought in the beginning, those characters would be Sheppard and Weir, it turned out to be Sheppard and *shiny* McKay (that is where the accident not by design comes in ).

I think it also surprised the writers how much they loved writing those two, and it probably surprised them just how much time they did nothing but write them in scenes. So much so, that by the end of season one Weir was becoming so much a minor character it wasn't funny, and Ford could be so easily replaced because the writers hadn't bothered to develop him and then we have Teyla still pretty much the token alien gal in the background.

Star Trek always had large casts, but again they still concentrated on two or three characters... it is just how it is. Ensemble cast or not, two or three characters will always get more time spent on them. Even MASH was more about Hawkeye/Trapper... later on B.J (which surprisingly worked as a major cast change)

So in short it is inevitable on a scifi show where the writers (have to) neglect some character's that for drama or other reasons those character have big red targets on their backs... that is why people die in scifi... that is why SGA is killing folks off, they are less important to the over-all show. Also the pesky thing of MGM/Skiffy wanting change, but then I think if tptb at Bridge didn't want it too, or at least didn't see merit to it, it wouldn't happen.

Sad for some but true.

[Falcon Horus]

How about we start the "Red shirt of the week"-betting pool... There's lots more characters to kill before season four comes to an end. We have 19 episodes left, which means 19 or more red shirts of the week.
Which would also leave the cast with no one else left, I think, not even the major players whom everybody believes to be safer than the rest. Ha, if only you know ...

[Willow'sCat]

How about we start the "Red shirt of the week"-betting pool... There's lots more characters to kill before season four comes to an end. We have 19 episodes left, which means 19 or more red shirts of the week.
Which would also leave the cast with no one else left, I think, not even the major players whom everybody believes to be safer than the rest. Ha, if only you know ...

Well I never said they were safer, well I kind of did but I also made mention of two cases where actors either left or were dumped, those actors both being 'one' of the 'two' or three main cast.

Of course it happens, it just usually happens more in cases where the actor themselves wants to leave, X-Files, NYPDB, L&O... Doctor Who... Stargate SG-1!

[OobeDoobBenubi]

They did a good job at least of keeping secret the death of the hot Kate

[Mattathias2.0]

Carson Beckett: I can't say I am upset he died. I did enjoy his character. I remember in The Return 2 how he served no purpose, except as comedy relief.

Elizabeth Weir: I really loved Weir as a character, but following Season One, they have been running out of ideas of what to do with her.

As far as recurring guest characters go, their deaths are certainly more possible than main or secondary cast.

[borgprincess]

With Weir, it's just poor planning. They knew from the start that they were going to have a female civilian leader of Atlantis, they should have thought it through and figured out how they could use her properly. It was like they wanted something cool and different and then realized they'd bit off more than they could chew. But the stupid thing is that Adrift sets up so many possiblities for her character and instead of utilizing her in this new capacity, they're writing her out. This is the time when there are heaps of stories they could write with her actually playing a main part in moving the plot along, instead of just being in the background, and they squander it.

Anyway, it seems like they're just trying to lift the ratings because they know that lots of fans will watch when something drastic happens to one of the main characters. The writers like to talk about how killing one person elevates the tension in other eps because people go, 'Well, s/he died, this could happen again' and it takes away people's security and comfort and complacency that things will end well, replacing it with tension and trepidation and suspense. I don't like it at all. But there are fans who prefer consequences and tragic events that imitate RL, so I guess at least one lot of viewers will be happy.

[FallenAngelII]

the problem is, SG-1 went 5 years without any cast shakeups. Ever since they went to Scifi, however, there's been a cast change every year. SG1 Seasons 6,7,8,9, and 10. SGA seasons 1,2, 4. Maybe its a Scifi problem, but it seems like the writing can't hold the audience's attention.

Yes, but those cast changes were not by choice from the PtB's side. They were forced to do said changes. Michael Shanks felt his character had hit a brick wall and left the show, Corin Nemec was Michael's replacement, but was then switched out again when Michael decided to come back, Don S. Davis wanted more time with his grand-daughters and Richard Dean Anderson wanted time with his daughters. Seasons 9 and 10 had zero cast changes in terms of "Characters who were removed". People were only added there.

Isn't the real reason why Carter is SGA is that AT was on contract, and it was a way for them to get her work, as well as try to boost atlantis ratings by brining in an SG1 character.

I've said I before and I'll say it again:
Most of the time, when a contract specifies how long a person is on contract for, it's to bind them to the show should the actor not want to remain, they'd still have to be forced to continue working on the show. I've never heard of a contract that states "The show writers will be have to be forced to write for this character for X numbers of years!". Also, there's usually a buyout option where they just give the actor a lot of money to terminate the contract.

This would all have been much easier than forcing Amanda's way into Atlantis and shaking things up by offing 3 veteran characters (possibly for budget reasons in order to accomodate Amanda's salary).

For another thing, why would Amanda and no one else from SG-1 be on contract for this year? Do you really think the PtB loved Amanda so much they not only gave her 1 more year of contract but also wrote it in that they would be forced to give her another year no matter if they wanted to or not?

So, most probably, Amanda's on Atlantis because the PtB want her to be, not because they are forced to put her there.

With Weir, it's just poor planning. They knew from the start that they were going to have a female civilian leader of Atlantis, they should have thought it through and figured out how they could use her properly. It was like they wanted something cool and different and then realized they'd bit off more than they could chew. But the stupid thing is that Adrift sets up so many possiblities for her character and instead of utilizing her in this new capacity, they're writing her out. This is the time when there are heaps of stories they could write with her actually playing a main part in moving the plot along, instead of just being in the background, and they squander it.

I felt the same way watching "Adrift" and "Lifeline". Elizabeth got the most and best character development she's ever gotten. She got more and better so than throughout all of season 3 and 2 (not combined though)! And what happens? "Ta ta! It was nice knowing you. We shall now forget about you for a lot of episodes!".

I haven't kept up lately on the behind-the-scenes-crap but is she still only set to appear in 3 episodes this year (meaning there will only be one more episode featuring her)? This doesn't bode well. She'll probably die in that 3rd episode.

[FallenAngelII]

Apparently

Spoiler:

Katie Brown

is also rumored to be on the chopping block. I'm just totally thrown by this. It's not that I love her or anything. I'm quite indifferent to her (I might even dislike her slightly because of her

Spoiler:

screwing up McShep

), but I just don't care about her much.

But why kill her off?! She's a tertiary character! Heck, she might even be a quaternary character! The PtB can't possibly think people will go all "Wow! Great writing!" over this crap.

[P-90_177]

i think atlantis are trying to make themselves more like bsg.

[prion]

Yes, but those cast changes were not by choice from the PtB's side. They were forced to do said changes. Michael Shanks felt his character had hit a brick wall and left the show, Corin Nemec was Michael's replacement, but was then switched out again when Michael decided to come back, Don S. Davis wanted more time with his grand-daughters and Richard Dean Anderson wanted time with his daughters. Seasons 9 and 10 had zero cast changes in terms of "Characters who were removed". People were only added there.


I've said I before and I'll say it again:
Most of the time, when a contract specifies how long a person is on contract for, it's to bind them to the show should the actor not want to remain, they'd still have to be forced to continue working on the show. I've never heard of a contract that states "The show writers will be have to be forced to write for this character for X numbers of years!". Also, there's usually a buyout option where they just give the actor a lot of money to terminate the contract.

This would all have been much easier than forcing Amanda's way into Atlantis and shaking things up by offing 3 veteran characters (possibly for budget reasons in order to accomodate Amanda's salary).

For another thing, why would Amanda and no one else from SG-1 be on contract for this year? Do you really think the PtB loved Amanda so much they not only gave her 1 more year of contract but also wrote it in that they would be forced to give her another year no matter if they wanted to or not?

So, most probably, Amanda's on Atlantis because the PtB want her to be, not because they are forced to put her there.


I felt the same way watching "Adrift" and "Lifeline". Elizabeth got the most and best character development she's ever gotten. She got more and better so than throughout all of season 3 and 2 (not combined though)! And what happens? "Ta ta! It was nice knowing you. We shall now forget about you for a lot of episodes!".

I haven't kept up lately on the behind-the-scenes-crap but is she still only set to appear in 3 episodes this year (meaning there will only be one more episode featuring her)? This doesn't bode well. She'll probably die in that 3rd episode.

They weren't forced to do anything. Everybody's contracts ran out at season 5, as had the show. Suddenly, Skiffy came into the picture. At that point, MS decided not to renew. It wasn't like he quit.

Alas, Beckett was bumped off to 'shake things up,' and we'll probably never know about Weir. Damn shamed that they finally could write for her in Adrift/Lifeline and now, out the door (or maybe airlock).

The thing is that writers are paid pretty handsomely to be creative. If an actor quits, gets sick, it's up to them to rewrite and give the viewers believable scenarios. Carter in on SGA becuase TPTB wanted her. Pure and simple. They wanted an SG1 character and well, they do love her (if you listen to enough interviews, well, she's up on a pedastal <G>).

[FallenAngelII]

They weren't forced to do anything. Everybody's contracts ran out at season 5, as had the show. Suddenly, Skiffy came into the picture. At that point, MS decided not to renew. It wasn't like he quit.

Um... what? They weren't forced, you say? Like Michael Shanks deciding to not renew his contract as a starring actor doesn't equate "quitting" as a starrign actor, forcing them to remove Daniel as a starring character?

Like Don S. Davis and Richard Dean Anderson deciding to pretty much retire didn't force them to write said characters out? Oh, BTW, stupid me. Richard quit after season 8. So season 9 had the removal of Richard, of course.

Alas, Beckett was bumped off to 'shake things up,' and we'll probably never know about Weir. Damn shamed that they finally could write for her in Adrift/Lifeline and now, out the door (or maybe airlock).

The thing is that writers are paid pretty handsomely to be creative. If an actor quits, gets sick, it's up to them to rewrite and give the viewers believable scenarios. Carter in on SGA becuase TPTB wanted her. Pure and simple. They wanted an SG1 character and well, they do love her (if you listen to enough interviews, well, she's up on a pedastal <G>).

The point I'm trying to make is that there seems to be zero reason for all of these deaths (not to mention how pointless they are. No blazes of glory, except for Elizabeth, but she's not actually dead yet).

Carson died because they wanted to shake things up? But why did they feel the need to do so? And we know from interviews that Paul was very upset over it and didn't want to leave. Of course we know why Elizabeth was written off. Sam's taking command of Atlantis, that's why.

Kate, Kate just seems random. And so does

Spoiler:

Katie Brown. I mean, she's had, what, 10 minutes of screentime, tops? They might just as well just not mention her or only mention her in passing, but, nooooo. They have to kill her off!

These deaths are pointless and bad creative writing. It feels like they're too lazy to come up with good scripts so they just randomly kill non-fodder characters off in order to elicit strong emotions from fans (well, they're making us angry. Anger is an emotion).

Also, out of all of the major cast changes on SG-1, only two was the result of death; Janet and Jacob. And they weren't even main characters (like Elizabeth, not yet dead, but pretty soon I bet, Ford and Carson). The rest just Ascended (and then came back) or retired.