'Doppelganger' (404) General Discussion

[Integrabyte]

Ok i here theres a clown scene and i am deathly afraid of clowns so i need a must know.. can i bear this episode? lol!

I love clowns . 2 seconds is not enough for me

[freyr's mother]

Was this another leaked episode?

[IWantToBelieve]

No, this was a legit episode and it was accidentally sold early by itunes.

Now that I've been able to get it to play decent on my PC, my final thoughts, and this is what I posted in the Shep whump thread so my obvious love for a certain *cough* Shep whump aspect is obvious:


Now that I've watched it a third time, I can honestly say I love this episode! On a whump-scale, it's only in the middle range. It is not a Sheppard-whump fest. On the other hand, dude, Joe Flanigan portrays sociopath with astounding and almost freaky ease. I actually found myself so sucked into Evil!Shep especially at the end.

I think the fact that we were under the impression that Sheppard was infected by the entity the entire time and therefore the subject of all the scrutiny as things developed was a bit of a "huh" when you actually start watching it, and that *is* a clear downside to opening yourself up to as much spoilers and clips as we tend to do.

But this episode has so much to offer that it's easy enough to set aside the small disappointment in the lack of real whump.

Team fun: When they're traipsing through the jungle, their banter is so much fun. When Sheppard steps in the boggy spot and says, "That's it!" it's mega-cute. When he touches it and gets sent flying, Rodney's, "What'd you touch it for!" as in his mental omfg, you could've been killed, what are you trying to do to me!

Then Ronon hauling Sheppard off the ground and Sheppard frustrated and irritated, whinging at Rodney, "I DON'T know!!! God. *dies*

After mission medical: Teyla staying behind to make sure he's okay. So, really, she drew the short straw and Rodney and Ronon bugged out, leaving her to make sure John was fine. So cute.

Teyla's nightmare: Return of Bug!John, here you can see Joe is going to be very good at this evil thing because he played it so nuanced that if you didn't know what was up, you wouldn't have really understood totally. That Ronon, Rodney are also in her dreams. Come on, team love!!!

Mess hall scene: More team love. This season is gonna rock. Eating breakfast together, Teyla being pissed at John and John looking flustered and surprised, "I can't control what's in her dreams!" Hee! It's a girl thing, John, just roll with it.

John and Ronon: John beat up Ronon! and Ronon is so gonna get him back. John's sheepish look. So cute! *hugs da boys*

Ronon's nightmare: dude, he's afraid of being buried alive! *shivers* That and being alone again!

Keller's nightmare: Aliens. *dies* Okay, really, there's got to be team fic watching Aliens after this episode. Totally.

Mess Hall scene: the whole thing, too funny. Rodney was really cute here and Ronon so has Rodney pegged.

Briefing: Rodney avoiding sitting next to John and John clearly noticing, a little amused, a little miffed, cause seriously, he's not able to control people's dreams! come on guys, darn it!

Ronon: his confusion during the talk about directing Rodney's dreams. His final "what?" So cute, Ronon, we love you!

John and Rodney shared dream: this is clearly going to be a season with plenty of the McShep fun. John telling Rodney "this isn't so bad" and then Rodney pointing over his shoulder at what clearly John brought into the dreamscape. *laughing* Then the fake-out, and how sweaty and rough John was and the whole "wandering around stunned afterward" and his worst nightmare losing Rodney! And then...

The Big Fight Scene: OMG, how much do I love Evil!Shep. The carefree, laconic, and yet totally pathological ebilness. His lazy, predatory approach, the fight, the arrival of Rodney right when Evil!Shep is taunting Good!shep about Rodney being dead. *squeeee*

Waking up in the infirmary: Rodney woke up first, Rodney got his little sensors pulled free first, John wasn't getting that so in my little whumpy world, they didn't let John go for a while extra since he got the crap beat out of him and because the entity was in him last and just maybe there's some left in him *cough* whump AU fic anyone, hehehehehe!

Final Scene: John can't sleep. None of them can sleep. Nightmare on Elm Street aftermath. Cool!

[Landers]

Killdeer, yeah I felt like I was getting hit over the head with J/T too. It was way too much for a show that never commits to ships.

Considering that Teyla's nightmare was Ronon saying "I thought you and Shep would hook up", then I'd say the truth was the opposite. She DOESN'T want Shep at all. He is just her friend. Mallozzi's blog already said the only canon ship we would see this year would be between

Spoiler:

Rodney and Katie.

[Erised]

Mallozzi's blog already said the only canon ship we would see this year would be between

Spoiler:

Rodney and Katie.

wait.. I know this one.

Spoiler:

then Katie will be killed 'cause she's not blonde!

[Killdeer]

Considering that Teyla's nightmare was Ronon saying "I thought you and Shep would hook up", then I'd say the truth was the opposite. She DOESN'T want Shep at all. He is just her friend. Mallozzi's blog already said the only canon ship we would see this year would be between

Spoiler:

Rodney and Katie.

I'd certainly like that to be the case. Although I don't remember Mallozzi saying that exactly. Do you have the quote?

[expendable_crewman]

On the other hand, dude, Joe Flanigan portrays sociopath with astounding and almost freaky ease.

Yeah, I thought it went well too.

I'm still blinking at the weirdness of the ep. Usually, when we get freaky sci-fi elements, there's the need for heavy CGI. In Doppelganger, it's the characters spinning the sci-fi elements for us. We're getting the skeevies watching what they're going through.

I have to say I'm really enjoying this season's use of the characters, the play on their need for, and attachments to, each other.

Rodney's father traumatized him with Moby Dick? I thought Rodney liked whales, or at least got over not liking them.

Uh, anyway, this is the way to use the story to tell us more about the people.

Does Ronon's scratch mean Sheppard's getting good at Satedan fighting styles? The Sheppard / Sheppard fight took place in a dream, so I took that as I found it.

[Alipeeps]

Well I've seen it and I have to say I loved it. It wasn't entirely what I was expecting - there have been so many clips from this ep in promos, especially over the last few days - that it almost felt like we knew what was going to happen in this ep... but ti didn't work out quite the way I had thought after all.

I think what I loved best about this ep is that it is so character-focused. Obviously the nature of the plot makes it focus around the characters and their relationships with each other, their fears and worries etc... but more than that it felt like there was a real emphasis on showing the relationships between the team, lovely little moments of them just hanging out and talking together, Ronon and Shep sparring late at night etc. and it really worked for me.. I really felt the closeness between these people.

I loved the freaky dreams and liked how everyone tended to dismiss it at first until they realised how serious it was getting.. and then when it did get serious... wow. Losing Heightmeyer was a shame, definitely, but it certainly gave more impact that the person who died was not a random, never-seen-before marine or scientist (a la Adrift) but someone that, for all that she'd only been in 3 or 4 episodes before, was known to us and was a friend of Teyla's. And then the whole final section of the episode with Sheppard going into Rodney's dream and vice versa... just brilliant! I liked that there was still some humour in there... cos that is so Sheppard and McKay... but Evil!Shep really became more and more sinister by the moment and dayum but Joe F did a fantastic job portraying that. In fact, he rocked throughout this episode... moments that stick in my mind include the shell-shocked, utterly lost look on his face as he wanders aimlessly through the city, believing Rodney to be dead. Wow.

The final fight was amazing - just brutal. And Evil!Shep was just so... kinda implacable.. stalking slowly and coldly towards Sheppard to land another blow. Kinda Terminator 2-like!

I could go on and on about particular moments I enjoyed but overall I just enjoyed the whole ep tremendously.. particularly the team focus of it.

Its Cold Lazarus from SG1. They just tweaked it a bit for the Atlantis characters, but its clearly based on the old CL script.

Thumbs down for lack of imagination, but I guess those who didn't watch SG1 will probably enjoy it.

Really the only similarity to Cold Lazarus is the concept of an alien entity that lives in crystal form. Nothing else is remotely the same! You may as well take any two episodes with Felger in and state that they are the same, "just tweaked a bit", because the basic concept (Felger screws up) is the same.

i don't get the buried alive thing for ronon maybe his girlfriend was buried alive on sateda.

I thought Ronon's nightmare was interesting. Being alone again... it's easy to see where that comes from after 7 years on his own and finally feeling part of something again.. the buried alive thing.... it made me think in terms of being trapped and helpless.. again, with his history as a runner the worst thing possible would be to be trapped and not able to get out/get away... or to not be able to save yourself or to fight back.. to be helpless...

wait.. I know this one.

Spoiler:

then Katie will be killed 'cause she's not blonde!

I guess Heightmeyer really shouldn't have dyed her hair then...

[IWantToBelieve]

Ali, I agree with you totally about the SG-1 thing.

In Cold Lazarus, the crystal entity wants to help O'Neill and do good, the events that happen after it knocks out O'Neill are completely different from how DG unravels.

[WingedPegasus]

No, this was a legit episode and it was accidentally sold early by itunes.

Now that I've been able to get it to play decent on my PC, my final thoughts, and this is what I posted in the Shep whump thread so my obvious love for a certain *cough* Shep whump aspect is obvious:


Now that I've watched it a third time, I can honestly say I love this episode! On a whump-scale, it's only in the middle range. It is not a Sheppard-whump fest. On the other hand, dude, Joe Flanigan portrays sociopath with astounding and almost freaky ease. I actually found myself so sucked into Evil!Shep especially at the end.

I think the fact that we were under the impression that Sheppard was infected by the entity the entire time and therefore the subject of all the scrutiny as things developed was a bit of a "huh" when you actually start watching it, and that *is* a clear downside to opening yourself up to as much spoilers and clips as we tend to do.

But this episode has so much to offer that it's easy enough to set aside the small disappointment in the lack of real whump.

Team fun: When they're traipsing through the jungle, their banter is so much fun. When Sheppard steps in the boggy spot and says, "That's it!" it's mega-cute. When he touches it and gets sent flying, Rodney's, "What'd you touch it for!" as in his mental omfg, you could've been killed, what are you trying to do to me!

Then Ronon hauling Sheppard off the ground and Sheppard frustrated and irritated, whinging at Rodney, "I DON'T know!!! God. *dies*

After mission medical: Teyla staying behind to make sure he's okay. So, really, she drew the short straw and Rodney and Ronon bugged out, leaving her to make sure John was fine. So cute.

Teyla's nightmare: Return of Bug!John, here you can see Joe is going to be very good at this evil thing because he played it so nuanced that if you didn't know what was up, you wouldn't have really understood totally. That Ronon, Rodney are also in her dreams. Come on, team love!!!

Mess hall scene: More team love. This season is gonna rock. Eating breakfast together, Teyla being pissed at John and John looking flustered and surprised, "I can't control what's in her dreams!" Hee! It's a girl thing, John, just roll with it.

John and Ronon: John beat up Ronon! and Ronon is so gonna get him back. John's sheepish look. So cute! *hugs da boys*

Ronon's nightmare: dude, he's afraid of being buried alive! *shivers* That and being alone again!

Keller's nightmare: Aliens. *dies* Okay, really, there's got to be team fic watching Aliens after this episode. Totally.

Mess Hall scene: the whole thing, too funny. Rodney was really cute here and Ronon so has Rodney pegged.

Briefing: Rodney avoiding sitting next to John and John clearly noticing, a little amused, a little miffed, cause seriously, he's not able to control people's dreams! come on guys, darn it!

Ronon: his confusion during the talk about directing Rodney's dreams. His final "what?" So cute, Ronon, we love you!

John and Rodney shared dream: this is clearly going to be a season with plenty of the McShep fun. John telling Rodney "this isn't so bad" and then Rodney pointing over his shoulder at what clearly John brought into the dreamscape. *laughing* Then the fake-out, and how sweaty and rough John was and the whole "wandering around stunned afterward" and his worst nightmare losing Rodney! And then...

The Big Fight Scene: OMG, how much do I love Evil!Shep. The carefree, laconic, and yet totally pathological ebilness. His lazy, predatory approach, the fight, the arrival of Rodney right when Evil!Shep is taunting Good!shep about Rodney being dead. *squeeee*

Waking up in the infirmary: Rodney woke up first, Rodney got his little sensors pulled free first, John wasn't getting that so in my little whumpy world, they didn't let John go for a while extra since he got the crap beat out of him and because the entity was in him last and just maybe there's some left in him *cough* whump AU fic anyone, hehehehehe!

Final Scene: John can't sleep. None of them can sleep. Nightmare on Elm Street aftermath. Cool!

Thank you so much! I was so afraid there wasn't any good team humor in this ep, and that it was just one creepy, dark, nasty, violent dream after another. My fears have been (sorta) allayed. Thank you!

Also, I don't think it sounds like Cold Lazarus at all, (aside from the obvious crystal thing) and I'm really feeling rather ambivalent about Kate being dead. I know some people liked her, and that's fine, but I personally don't like psychiatrists.

[Michelle05]

I loved what others loved about it. Evil Shep in the dreams was truly malicious and cold, and I think JF could play a very evil villain if he ever wanted to. I loved the team aspects, and even the John/Teyla stuff I didn't take as leading to a real ship. I think Teyla isn't sure how she feels about John... and then John was so grateful she didn't blame him for her nightmares or for Kate's death. That's all I saw in the hugging scene, that she needed comfort and was forgiving him. I guess people can see as much as they want there...

I thought Rachel was showing a bit, and I'm sure the producers already knew her condition when they wrote this, so maybe it was on purpose to show hints of John/Teyla before showing her choosing a different path.

I love the new mess hall that overlooks that water. That is truly awesome, and I hope it stays around.

All the dreams were great and appropriate to the person... I loved John and Rodney saving each other from Evil Shep. Just loved it! And the fight scene was terrific, when usually they bore me to distraction.

I found some of the exposition repetitive. Like, we heard at least 3 times the explanation of the crystal jumping from person to person and in what order. We heard about John being a "negative presence" in the dreams (or whatever the term was) at least twice. They don't usually treat the audience as that dense.

Carter was stiff in some of her explanations, as if AT were just trying to get the lines out. But I like that she's able to bring in SG-1 experience to solve things. In reality you would have an experienced SGC person on Atlantis to bring that knowledge... I liked that.

Rodney is afraid of whales? He practically had a whale for a pet last year!

And, I do still miss Carson very much. Keller is so different... not bad, just way different.

Overall this was as good as my favorite episodes from S3... I liked it even better than Adrift, because it was so character-focused.

[Landers]

I'd certainly like that to be the case. Although I don't remember Mallozzi saying that exactly. Do you have the quote?

JM: As for the rest - with the exception of the McKay-Katie Brown relationship which we established in season 2 - when you get around to actually watching season 4, you may well find yourself quoting The Prince Bride’s Inigo Montoya with regard to all of the expected “romance“: “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

From Sept. 27 entry.

[Killdeer]

JM: As for the rest - with the exception of the McKay-Katie Brown relationship which we established in season 2 - when you get around to actually watching season 4, you may well find yourself quoting The Prince Bride’s Inigo Montoya with regard to all of the expected “romance“: “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

From Sept. 27 entry.

Ah hah! Yes, I remember that entry, which says exactly nothing. He doesn't say there won't be canon ships and he doesn't say there will be. With Mallozzi, it's very very dangerous to read anything into what he says. Unless he specifically says "We will not ship John/Teyla this year" or "We will ship John/Teyla this year", anything is possible. My vote is obviously on the NOT, but we'll see. And I'm pretty sure this episode was filmed before TPTB knew of Rachel's pregnancy. Haven't the interviews said that she told them while they were working on Missing?

In the meantime, I like your explanation. And I'm still looking for Adrift.

[cindyz]

WOW. WOW. wow. wow. although I have the misfortune to not be able to see the new eps as they air ( not because I am outside the USA, but because of work) I depend on I Tunes weekly to legally purchase these eps...and have not yet seen the true Adrift...THIS EPISODE ROCKED!


OMG...Joe was awesome! The doppleganger needs the goatee just like he said.!

[Erised]

I guess Heightmeyer really shouldn't have dyed her hair then...

LOL I actually think dark hair looked bad on her. She looked like a natural blonde from what I remember and that color just looked unnatural.. Still.. wtf they're discriminating against non blondes! LOL.. no really..