'Doppelganger' (404) General Discussion

[SGFerrit]

I have to say, AT's performance was bottom-notch. To be perfectly honest, I was unimpressed. Disgusted really. Carter's "speech" was forced and unnatural. TH pulled it off much better, IMO. Not to bash AT, but she really doesn't do the leader type well. I would be half okay with her transition to SGA if her acting was better.

I disagree personally. I thought she was good, and I particularlly liked her speech. I didn't think she was any worse than Weir. But I do agree with people who found their roles quite interchangeable. I thought for the fact that she barely knew Kate, she was good. That's just how Sam talks, and I thought there was emotion in the way she did it, but at the same time, she stayed stern, and set a good example for those in Atlantis, re-assured them with her voice, if you know what I mean?

Ah well, that's just my opinion. Seems I'm in the minority lol.

I liked the way Sam did mention Weir with Sheppard. Also, in the context that Torri Higginson wanted, i.e she wanted the her and Weir's legacy on the show to make the characters think a bit more diplomatically and not just shoot first.

[Tith]

I need to read a fic about the team watching 'Alien' together.

Agreed, and I'm waiting for teh crossover with Supernatural where John and Sam are faced with Clowns

[Agent_Dark]

I'll say I have to agree (which may be an unpopular stance) but Carter showed no emotion in her speech about Heightmeyer's demise. It was... just.... flat. It was more like she was reading a memo. Perhaps I'm spoiled because Weir had more passion, more 'oomph' when she did her citywide announcements. Sam was just flat. In fact, sigh, I wasn't overly impressed with her scenes in DG. I'll have to do a better review when I get the time though.

I dunno, I tended to find Weir's speechers a little annoying sometime. It was like she was trying to inspire everyone, everytime she spoke. "Hey dont be scared, I'm speaking!" Which is probably a little unfair, but it gets a little old after a while. They needed to restrict Weir's 'passionate' announcements to the few times where it was really needed.
Carter has always tended to be more pragmatic and realist than anything, which I feel should fit better for a more military styled command.

[Falcon Horus]

I'll say I have to agree (which may be an unpopular stance) but Carter showed no emotion in her speech about Heightmeyer's demise. It was... just.... flat. It was more like she was reading a memo. Perhaps I'm spoiled because Weir had more passion, more 'oomph' when she did her citywide announcements. Sam was just flat. In fact, sigh, I wasn't overly impressed with her scenes in DG. I'll have to do a better review when I get the time though.

I agree, I missed that ... oomph ... too, very much even.

[Agent_Dark]

But it was Kate's nightmare, not Teyla's. That scenario would only work if it was someone else's nightmare watching it happen, as in what happened to Teyla in Keller's nightmare. Since it was Kate's nightmare, we're only seeing what happened from her perspective. So when she died, the scene went black.

Ronon got buried alive in his nightmare, that's fairly brutal. McKay got eaten by a while. And the scene didn't seem to be shot from Heightmeyer's perspective anyway, it was from Teyla's.

[Killdeer]

Ronon got buried alive in his nightmare, that's fairly brutal. McKay got eaten by a while. And the scene didn't seem to be shot from Heightmeyer's perspective anyway, it was from Teyla's.

But in both those cases the scene was cut off - we didn't actually see them after they were dead, because it was their nightmare. We saw Ronon being buried, we saw Rodney being eaten, we saw Kate falling. The aftermath was not shown in any of those situations.

And yes, it was set up to make the viewer think at first that the nightmare was Teyla's dream, but it was really Kate's dream, otherwise she wouldn't have died. Just some deliberate misdirection by the writers.

[Agent_Dark]

But in both those cases the scene was cut off - we didn't actually see them after they were dead, because it was their nightmare. We saw Ronon being buried, we saw Rodney being eaten, we saw Kate falling. The aftermath was not shown in any of those situations.

Ronon wouldn't have died as soon as evil shep covered his face with a shovel of dirt.

And yes, it was set up to make the viewer think at first that the nightmare was Teyla's dream, but it was really Kate's dream, otherwise she wouldn't have died. Just some deliberate misdirection by the writers.

Doesn't mean they couldn't have show her hitting something on the way down. And a thump onto the ground at the bottom, then immediatly cut to black. Kinda like in the Matrix Reloaded at the start how they show Trinity falling and the crash into the car and immediatly after Neo wakes up.

All I'm saying is that there was a brutal 'death' for Teyla with the alien bug thing exploding out of her stomach. There should have been a brutal death for Heightmeyer too, like hitting something on the way down and smacking into the ground.

[Killdeer]

Ronon wouldn't have died as soon as evil shep covered his face with a shovel of dirt.

Doesn't mean they couldn't have show her hitting something on the way down. And a thump onto the ground at the bottom, then immediatly cut to black. Kinda like in the Matrix Reloaded at the start how they show Trinity falling and the crash into the car and immediatly after Neo wakes up.

All I'm saying is that there was a brutal 'death' for Teyla with the alien bug thing exploding out of her stomach. There should have been a brutal death for Heightmeyer too, like hitting something on the way down and smacking into the ground.

There was a brutal death for Teyla because it was not Teyla's dream. I'm sure that if it had been someone else's dream, Kate would also have had a brutal death. But it wasn't. It was Kate's dream.

[*Erika*]

There was a brutal death for Teyla because it was not Teyla's dream. I'm sure that if it had been someone else's dream, Kate would also have had a brutal death. But it wasn't. It was Kate's dream.

Yes, and in her perspective (someone afraid of heights) it was brutal.

[Alipeeps]

I think you're missing the point - possibly deliberately..

The scene was from Kate's view... it was her perspective as she fell. If she *had* hit anything on the way down, the scene would have faded to black immediately as, from her perspective, the impact would have killed her (or at least knocked her unconscious).

You can't have it be her nightmare and have her die in the dream - and hence in real life - and then switch to someone else's perspective to see her body bounce off a few balconies on the way down. The dream was her perspective. She died. Ergo, no more Kate's perspective, ergo, end of dream.

[Agent_Dark]

I think you're missing the point - possibly deliberately..

The scene was from Kate's view... it was her perspective as she fell. If she *had* hit anything on the way down, the scene would have faded to black immediately as, from her perspective, the impact would have killed her (or at least knocked her unconscious).

You can't have it be her nightmare and have her die in the dream - and hence in real life - and then switch to someone else's perspective to see her body bounce off a few balconies on the way down. The dream was her perspective. She died. Ergo, no more Kate's perspective, ergo, end of dream.

It's nightmare - it doesn't have to be realistic. Seeing herself falling down in the third person is hardly an outrageous thing to happen in a dream. Or - it was able to control Lorne, it could have made Heightmeyer actually jump. Brutal = better in this case.

[prion]

It's nightmare - it doesn't have to be realistic. Seeing herself falling down in the third person is hardly an outrageous thing to happen in a dream. Or - it was able to control Lorne, it could have made Heightmeyer actually jump. Brutal = better in this case.

Nightmares don't have to make sense. They can be in color, or B&W and from any point of view. We got it from the third person point of view because from a TV show perspective, it makes the most sense.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

It's nightmare - it doesn't have to be realistic. Seeing herself falling down in the third person is hardly an outrageous thing to happen in a dream. Or - it was able to control Lorne, it could have made Heightmeyer actually jump. Brutal = better in this case.

That would have been brutal. I was a bit surprised by the gore in Keller's dream, though.

[Agent_Dark]

Nightmares don't have to make sense. They can be in color, or B&W and from any point of view. We got it from the third person point of view because from a TV show perspective, it makes the most sense.

yes, that was what i was saying

[Linzi]

That's what I thought too. Also, she is new to the leadership role so it being awkward would fit. She is way out of her element.

I think missing the 2 eps in between Adrift and DG made it feel a little weirder than maybe it really is.

Yes, I agree. And, let's not forget DG was the first episode filmed. There are two new characters to the show, and things need to settle down a bit. I thought Carter was professional, if a little detached. As a leader, she has to be like that, I think.

I'll say I have to agree (which may be an unpopular stance) but Carter showed no emotion in her speech about Heightmeyer's demise. It was... just.... flat. It was more like she was reading a memo. Perhaps I'm spoiled because Weir had more passion, more 'oomph' when she did her citywide announcements. Sam was just flat. In fact, sigh, I wasn't overly impressed with her scenes in DG. I'll have to do a better review when I get the time though.

Whereas I'd agree there was no passion in Carter's little eulogy, (how well did she know Kate, and is it appropriate for a leader to be emotional over the PA system?), I couldn't disagree more about Weir. For me she rarely showed emotion and I sometimes found Torri's performances flat. That's one of the problems I had with the character, and that may not be a popular view with some, but it's my opinion anyway. However, I don't think any leader would be full of emotion when informing the expedition about the death of someone, because, honestly, it would look a little unprofessional. Breaking down or crying, or being upset would be unprofessional in my eyes, and not be appropriate I don't think. Carter and Weir have both seen death many times, and as hard as it is, I think in that position you get hardened to it. So I doubt Weir would've shown more emotion personally, especially not in public. I do agree with what someone earlier said, sorry, can't remember who, that Carter did have a fair amount of exposition here, and it isn't great for making us feel empathy for a character. I did think she looked as if she cared about McKay and Sheppard though, when things got a bit hairy, but she didn't really know Kate, but conveyed to me that she understood how important Heightmeyer was to the expedition, and how fond everyone was of her.