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**morjana** · 06 January 2008, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Jumper_One View Post

what's wrong with standing up for your people?

I think it was more of Carter standing up for herself.

Ellis was insulting Carter's command by reprimanding McKay in that briefing, in front of ANOTHER Colonel (Caldwell), McKay and Shep, and Carter being there.

Morjana

**Watcher** · 06 January 2008, 02:27 PM

I'm seeing a lot of comments about the replicators ships not fighting as hard as they could have. The Aurora class ships are 10k years old. They can't be top of the line forever. The replicators are able to "replicate" the Aurora class ships exactly as they were built 10k years ago, but I doubt they added any upgrades to those vessels. Now the Earth battle cruisers have Asguard weaponry they are superior in firepower against the Aurora class.

The Asguards have been around until recent events and they have been pushing their technology for 10k years after the Ancients have stopped advancing. Asguard weapons should be better than the Ancients'. They had 10k years to surpass them!

As for the other ships, I agree that there should have been more allied ships lost fighting the Auroras. From what I saw, one hive and one Traveler vessel was destroyed. More should have gone down to make the fight more believable. Also, I'm glad that none of the Earth ships were lost. Earth only have 3! They need a chance to build a fleet and can't afford losses right now.

The only explanation I could come up with to justify the replicators poor fighting tactics is perhaps the Auroras were short on supplies considering they were hard at work building more ships. It's also possible that they were undermanned.

Why didn't the replicators detect the fleet coming? Good question. I have no idea ...

Finally, I think the Weir introduced at the end is evil. Based on the way shows are written, you don't introduce good characters at the end of the show before fading to black unless you want to reveal that they survived an ordeal. Hence they're not really being introduced. Movie writers always introduce evil characters along with their one liners, which is exactly what happened at the end of this episode. I’d say 9/10 that Weir character shown was evil. Whether she is the original Weir gone bad by the nanites in her system, or a full replicated copy, she's definitely evil. She may not know that yet, because I believe she's part of the group seeking ascension, but one way or the other she's going to do bad things in her attempts to find the answers to ascension.

She’s going to be far more dangerous than Oberoth’s group simply because she knows the Atlantis group very well, thus she’s going to be able to take advantage of their weaknesses for some time to come.

**Jumper_One** · 06 January 2008, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by justhere1971 View Post

How many people actually pay close attention to the credits? Beginning or the end. It would've been respectful to Torri to have her name on the credits. Then again, maybe I expect too much. They did take her out of the opening credits in the very first episode after all.

so? what's the big deal? the opening credits are for regular characters, she's a recurring character in s4 thus doesn't need to be in those credits

Originally posted by Integrabyte View Post

I could ask you the same thing

lol yeah you're right

Originally posted by morjana View Post

I think it was more of Carter standing up for herself.

Ellis was insulting Carter's command by reprimanding McKay in that briefing, in front of ANOTHER Colonel (Caldwell), McKay and Shep, and Carter being there.

Morjana

you're certainly right, it wasn't just about how he addressed Rodney. it's Carter's command and by talking like that to him Ellis automatically insulted her too. I thought it was a well done scene and showed what kind of a leader she is

**Aethon** · 06 January 2008, 02:31 PM

I think it shows Sams secret and supressed feelings for rodney

**Jumper_One** · 06 January 2008, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by ZampraZ View Post

I think it shows Sams secret and supressed feelings for rodney

lol I really hope you're not serious

**Falcon Horus** · 06 January 2008, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Jumper_One View Post

so? what's the big deal? the opening credits are for regular characters, she's a recurring character in s4 thus doesn't need to be in those credits

If I'm not mistaken, Carter is (was) also recurring.

But I think she meant it like when Rainbow got replaced with Jason in season 2. That didn't happen until the 4th episode. The opening credits from season 1 continued until Runner, and then changed bringing Jason and Paul into the credits. So, if they had followed the same like. Torri would have been in the opening credits until Lifeline, and they would have changed with Sateda's sequel ... Reunion.

**Cautious Explorer** · 06 January 2008, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Jumper_One View Post

what's wrong with standing up for your people?

That's what you got out of my post? Huh.

Ellis isn't allowed to be a likable character because he falls into the same class as Woolsey. He's supposed to play the jerk so Carter (and previously Weir) can look important by chewing him out in defense of her ideals, her people or her city -- whichever fits the episode.

It's the sheer predictablilty and overuse of the plot devise that makes the scene bad. IMO it would be better to let the leader behave like a leader, as in taking charge of the situation before the meeting devolved into name calling, rather than setting up Ellis as the stooge for Carter to reprimand.

**Watcher** · 06 January 2008, 02:38 PM

On Ellis, I like the character. He represents how the military really is imo. The military isn't filled with passive people that always agree with the style of scientists and other non-combatants. In fact, the military and science divisions usually clash on methodologies and Ellis is there to show that.

Before Ellis came on the show Cadwell used to be the "what the heck are you doing now?" kind of guy and before him was Colonel Everett. It seems like the writers passed that attitude on to Ellis and sooner or later they're going to pass that on to a newcomer once Ellis gets comfortable with the Atlantis group. You need people like that to make the show more believable.

Oh, let's not forget that Ellis gave credit to Rodney at the end of the episode. This shows that he can and will give credit when credit is due.

**PG15** · 06 January 2008, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post

If I'm not mistaken, Carter is (was) also recurring.

Nope, she was a regular. She just wasn't the leader of Atlantis, yet.

But I think she meant it like when Rainbow got replaced with Jason in season 2. That didn't happen until the 4th episode. The opening credits from season 1 continued until Runner, and then changed bringing Jason and Paul into the credits. So, if they had followed the same like. Torri would have been in the opening credits until Lifeline, and they would have changed with Sateda's sequel ... Reunion.

I had a logical explanation for that, but I'll only go into it if people want me to.

**Falcon Horus** · 06 January 2008, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by PG15 View Post

Nope, she was a regular. She just wasn't the leader of Atlantis, yet.

On the whole, not just in those two episodes. That's how her part on SGA started, recurring, which turned into regular rather quickly.

**Jumper_One** · 06 January 2008, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post

If I'm not mistaken, Carter is (was) also recurring.

Carter was a guest character in s1-3, she's a regular now

Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post

But I think she meant it like when Rainbow got replaced with Jason in season 2. That didn't happen until the 4th episode. The opening credits from season 1 continued until Runner, and then changed bringing Jason and Paul into the credits. So, if they had followed the same like. Torri would have been in the opening credits until Lifeline, and they would have changed with Sateda's sequel ... Reunion.

oh ok I guess I misread the post