Atlantis Cast Changes

[strivaria]

So...Decency ??? We are the ones who support this chain; We fans are the ones who deserve being taken into consideration when TPTB think about preposterous cast changes and "new direction" to our show.

It is US who deserve some decency !!!!

You know, I wonder how TPTB ever survived before the internet and instant ability to take the pulse of fandom at large on their decisions. Seriously? They owe us this consideration? Since when?

[Caldwell's 2IC]

You know, I wonder how TPTB ever survived before the internet and instant ability to take the pulse of fandom at large on their decisions. Seriously? They owe us this consideration? Since when?

Go back and read my entire post. Without us, there are no ratings which means no advertisers which means no show. Without a show to produce those guys are out of work. You know, in my country there's a saying : "you don't bite the hand that feeds you"

[FoolishPleasure]

You know, I wonder how TPTB ever survived before the internet and instant ability to take the pulse of fandom at large on their decisions. Seriously? They owe us this consideration? Since when?

Fandom existed long before the net. Were you aware that the original Star Trek was cancelled and that fan letters and protests are what kept it on the air? That was back in the 1960's (my mom wrote plenty of letters, or so she says).

Yeah, I think TPTB "owe" us. If we didn't watch, they wouldn't have the ratings, so they do need to keep taking our pulse and see what works and what doesn't work for us. The audience is their lifeblood. Their imagination (or lack of it) is not.

[strivaria]

Go back and read my entire post. Without us, there are no ratings which means no advertisers which means no show. Without a show to produce those guys are out of work. You know, in my country there's a saying : "you don't bite the hand that feeds you"

I don't know about you, but I'm not going anywhere, so there's at least one rating point in their favor. My point is, which faction of fandom do you suggest TPTB be accountable to? You? Me?

[pattirose]

After the outcry from the fans over these changes I will not be surprised if TPTB just stops listening to the fans all together. Yes fans can say how they dont like how things are being changed & that they dont agree with them etc but the fact is the fans are the ones being very immature about all this & they could be doing things a little differently. In my opinion TPTB should not listen to the fans at all because in the end they will never please everyone. As I said fans can say how they dont like how things are being changed & that they dont agree with them etc but there is a fine line between being professional about this whole thing & voicing their opinions in a mature matter or just being very immature & very childish which is what most Atlantis fans has been & they have to wake up & get used to the fact that TPTB owes them nothing. I really hope that they start ignoring the fan bases completely because in the end as I said not everyone will be pleased & its not worth it.

I have to disagree. TPTB do owe the fans, there wouldn't be a franchise if it wasn't for the fans. We are the ones parting with our hard earned money to buy the dvds and attend the conventions etc. Childish or immature is besides the point, take it for what it's worth, it's still input and if that's how people express themselves so be it.
I'd bet money on the fact that TPTB come here to see what the fans are saying. The ones who post are only a small representation of the fan base but the general consensus is pretty much the same. In any business customer satisfaction is of the utmost importance and to get that input here for free is invaluable. Now whether or not they can use or choose to use that input is another thing altogether but they most definitely know how we feel.

[Truskawka]

Go back and read my entire post. Without us, there are no ratings which means no advertisers which means no show. Without a show to produce those guys are out of work. You know, in my country there's a saying : "you don't bite the hand that feeds you"

Well... not entirely true. There's definitely part of the audience which hates the changes and quit watching. But the new people, at the beginning with small numbers perhaps, will come to watch the show and they are going to find it enjoyable.

[strivaria]

Fandom existed long before the net. Were you aware that the original Star Trek was cancelled and that fan letters and protests are what kept it on the air? That was back in the 1960's (my mom wrote plenty of letters, or so she says).

Yep, I knew about that. I also knew about, and took part in, the Save Farscape drive that resulted in the mini series. However, saving a series from cancellation isn't the same as demanding the show be tailored to one faction of fandom's desires.

Yeah, I think TPTB "owe" us. If we didn't watch, they wouldn't have the ratings, so they do need to keep taking our pulse and see what works and what doesn't work for us. The audience is their lifeblood. Their imagination (or lack of it) is not.

The audience is made up of individuals with different ideas on how the show should be run. You may have one faction who wants this change but not that one and another whose demands are totally opposite. Again, which faction of that audience to they owe? They can't please everyone.

[Caldwell's 2IC]

I don't know about you, but I'm not going anywhere, so there's at least one rating point in their favor. My point is, which faction of fandom do you suggest TPTB be accountable to? You? Me?

I don't think we are on opposite sides...just look at your banner ( really cool, by the way )

Spoiler:

They killed Beckett already. Who'll be next, Zelenka ?

I also love McKay. What if they replace HIM ???

Well... not entirely true. There's definitely part of the audience which hates the changes and quit watching. But the new people, at the beginning with small numbers perhaps, will come to watch the show and they are going to find it enjoyable.

The "new people" may like the show, but many of them didn't get to know the original cast so they can't compare. Oh, I'll still watch the show because of McKay, Weir

Spoiler:

( support cast beats being death...)

and Caldwell ( if he comes back at all ) But I still think TPTB are butchering the show.

[Alipeeps]

As with Elizabeth, the only reason why she hasn't been given good screentime lately is because the PTB can't write for her. Obviously the solution to this is to reduce her role to recurring. Which was also what the PTB told us they were going to do with Carson. And look what happened. He died.

Nothing good ever comes out of an SGA character going recurring. Ford got 2 episodes (a 2-parter being one of them), the last of which he probably died in. Carson just died.

Just a minor point, in the interests of accuracy, it was never stated that Carson was being made recurring. Rumours leaked about the character dieing/Paul leaving the show and when we eventually got some kind of response to that from TPTB it was to say that Carson was going to disappear towards the end of Season 3. The only other thing mentioned was that they might bring Paul back (note Paul, not Carson) in the future, possibly as another character. That and the whole "no-one ever really dies in SciFi" thing was pretty much a sop to the fans' concerns, effectively "Oh hey, we might bring him back.." but they never stated he was being made recurring.

[strivaria]

I also love McKay. What if they replace HIM ???

People keep throwing that out at those folks who aren't up in arms about all the changes. Speaking only for myself, I'd miss my snarky astrophysicist but it wouldn't stop me from watching the show and enjoying the remaining cast and stories. To put it a different way, I have my favorite people (obviously) but I don't watch just for them; I watch because I like everyone's interaction within the stories being told; my enjoyment doesn't hinge on one character alone. Maybe I'm unique in that fact.

[Freekzilla]

After the outcry from the fans over these changes I will not be surprised if TPTB just stops listening to the fans all together. Yes fans can say how they dont like how things are being changed & that they dont agree with them etc but the fact is the fans are the ones being very immature about all this & they could be doing things a little differently. In my opinion TPTB should not listen to the fans at all because in the end they will never please everyone. As I said fans can say how they dont like how things are being changed & that they dont agree with them etc but there is a fine line between being professional about this whole thing & voicing their opinions in a mature matter or just being very immature & very childish which is what most Atlantis fans has been & they have to wake up & get used to the fact that TPTB owes them nothing. I really hope that they start ignoring the fan bases completely because in the end as I said not everyone will be pleased & its not worth it.

The fans are being immature? Give me a break. People are voicing their opinions. Get used to it. Some of us think for ourselves and are not mindless automotons that take what we are given without question. No, they won't ever please everyone. But I think pleasing as many people as possible is part of what they try to do, or should be trying to. If the "public" matters so little as you suggest, then why was the Janet Jackson fiasco such a big stink? didn't viewer opinion and outcry force TPTB to change how things are done? It sounds, and I may be wrong, that you have a very naive opinion on how things are done "in hollywood", that it's such a noble and honest group. Sorry to burst your bubble, it's not. It's a childish and wanton business plagued with over indulgence and incredible egos. TPTB don't owe the public anything, as in they have a debt to us or something. But if they want us to watch what they are peddling, they should give us something we can be happy with. It doesn't have to be exact, just acceptable. There have to be limits, on both sides. We shouldn't expect to get everything we want, but the PTB shouldn't expect to have us watch everything just because they put it out there. The fans do matter, despite what you say. It's called ratings. And the fact that you say TPTB shouldn't listen to the fans, just tells me you are an elitist and pompous fanboy of the status quo. I suppose public outcry about corporate crime and the war in Iraq is just immaturity by the public in your opinion as well. Such a fatalistic attitude. How sad.

[expendable_crewman]

The food chain works like this : A TV Network wants money so they come up with a good show, but they need sponsors ( products advertising ) and sponsors only back up successfull shows, so they chek the ratings.

There's where WE come into the equation: WE the fans give good ratings to a show by watching it and we recommend the show to our friends so the ratings go up. And WE are the ones who actually buy the stuff that they advertise during commercial breaks. So...

Without US, there are no ratings, which means there are no sponsors which means there is no TV show which means TPTB are OUT OF WORK.

WE are the base link in the chain.

So...Decency ??? We are the ones who support this chain; We fans are the ones who deserve being taken into consideration when TPTB think about preposterous cast changes and "new direction" to our show.

It is US who deserve some decency !!!!

In many ways, I agree with what you wrote.

The part I disagree with is probably the most and least important: there is a difference between the majority of Stargate viewers and online fans. Online fans are viewers but most viewers are not online fans.

Forums are not that great a representation of the viewership for any TV show.

In the US, first-run Stargate episodes gather over a million viewers a week. Check out the "views" on the longer forum threads. The forum "views" are a running count, meaning the count does not reset every week.

We are not a mirror for Stargate fandom. We are a mirror for online fandom.

Most viewers, even the regular ones, only think about Stargate long enough to tune in or set a timer. Those viewers, casual by definition, roll with the punches or disappear without a peep.

Online fans have no idea what those viewers want or think.

Online fans can't even speak for other online fans.

Look at this forum.

There's an anti-Beckett and an anti-Weir thread right below the Save Weir and Save Beckett threads.

Since conflict is usually the result of unmet unexpecations, I'm finding it interesting that a portion of online fans believe his or her voice is a reflection of all or many Stargate fans, even though there are fans on the thread right below the one on which they are posting pushing the opposite point.

If the PTBs used online fandom to chart a course for the franchise, the direction of the show would circle itself, zig zag, double back and stall (from time to time) in myopia.

And now online fandom gets a lovely treat to fans complaining about fans complaining.

I don't need to stop the complaining. If the PTBs were listening, I still wouldn't care. Fandom isn't about the PTBs. It's about fans interacting with fans. What am I basing that on? (1) Clearly, there's no one else listening, and (2) it's what online fans do.

One thing sticks with me, though. Forget about being good to others. If a fan is setting his or her keyboard on fire all day, that fan is not being good to himself or herself.

Please excuse letter writing campaigns from this opinion: snail-mail letter writing campaigns are a pain and they cost money and for both reasons attract attention at networks and studios. But they are purposed acts with track records and they require thought and direction in order to be successful. By definition, they are positive.

If at the end of the day all this angst is darkening a fan's day and the fan's once beloved happy place is a thorn the fan is struggling to work out of his or her system, at least be honest about where it's going.

The show will air, and while it airs, you will watch. But you won't like what you see.

Until you (1) do like it, or (2) give up and stop watching.

Other than that, the wailing if it is kept in perspective is just a roundabout way to get over disappointment.

[ses110]

Bravo! It seems some are soo quick to protect TPTB and the Actors and where is the protection for the Fans.You cannot have a TV Show without the Fans.I always felt TPTB of Stargate were dismissive of the Fans concerns.TPTB always seem to make comments like we cannot see how anyone will not like this.TPTB always seem very sensitive to any form of criticism of the Show.TPTB of some other Shows have no trouble admitting when something they tried does not work.They do not blame the schedule or lack of advertising.They just go about trying to fix things.I always felt the Actors on Stargate had more concern and patience for the Fans view.Fans must speak up IMO.We watch the Shows and we buy the DVD's.We have a voice and are the real TPTB.

[Teotl]

Every post that has been added since my last reply (well, maybe not every post, I started skiming towards the end - promise I'll read it more closely tomorrow) is exactly the sort of post that I like. Do I agree with all of you? No. But you are talking about in a decent and respectable manner.

Like I said in the first post, I'm not talking about people who have issues with the changes, I'm talking about people who are automatically jumping to conclusions about them. Hell, even I thought when the most recent one was announced that three was maybe a bit too many. TPTB are going to have to be careful with how they handle it, or it could go down the drain.

What I'm saying is don't say that is has gone down the drain until it airs. Don't say the PTB don't know what they're doing until there is proof. And most importantly, don't make accusations about the reason for all these changes unless you actually know what happened.

In other words, have a little decency.

And for the record: decency is never owed. It's not about only doing it if you owe someone it, it's about doing it for its own sake. Should the PTB listen to the fans? Of course. We're the fans. We make or break the show. Should the fans voice their opinions of the show in a mature manner? Of course. They're TPTB. They make the show. It's a two-way relationship.

[Pegasus_SGA]

After the outcry from the fans over these changes I will not be surprised if TPTB just stops listening to the fans all together. Yes fans can say how they dont like how things are being changed & that they dont agree with them etc but the fact is the fans are the ones being very immature about all this & they could be doing things a little differently. In my opinion TPTB should not listen to the fans at all because in the end they will never please everyone. As I said fans can say how they dont like how things are being changed & that they dont agree with them etc but there is a fine line between being professional about this whole thing & voicing their opinions in a mature matter or just being very immature & very childish which is what most Atlantis fans has been & they have to wake up & get used to the fact that TPTB owes them nothing. I really hope that they start ignoring the fan bases completely because in the end as I said not everyone will be pleased & its not worth it.

Saw this and felt the need to speak.

Online fans are very vocal about what they do and don't like on a show, and they have the right to say what they want and how they want, providing it's within the rules of the forum. Yes, there are people who lash out and get angry and upset when changes are made. Have you asked yourself why that is? Maybe you're not someone who likes to critic other people's work or have never had a bad/angry word to say about changes that are being made to the show, but the thing is people are passionate about what they do and don't like.

Some people on this board have been fans since for ten years, they've spent their hard earned cash on the DVD's scores, conventions etc. And those things don't come cheap, and maybe by doing these things they feel as if they have 'invested' in something special, because it's something that has kept them entertained when things have gone pear shaped in the real world and they need to escape the harsh realities of real life. Stargate has become their 'friend' (for want of a better term) and when their 'freind' changes drastically or disappears it hurts and they feel betrayed. So when people post to say how they feel, they want to know that other like-minded individuals feel the same and they're not alone. And it hurts when others don't understand how they feel as they do and they slap them down, as if their feelings don't mean anything.

If I don't like a thread, I won't go into it, simple as that. If I disagree with someone I will politely tell them so, and explain why I don't agree and it can turn into a wonderful debate, providing it doesn't get personal. In your post you've called Atlantis fans 'immature' 'childish'. That's personal, and that's out of order. You've stereotyped all the Atlantis fans by claiming that they have no right to their pov and i'm sorry but you're out of line. Do you know any of these people? Do you talk to them on a one to one basis and make an informed decision of who they are and why they feel as they do? No, you haven't.

No one on this forum (as far as i'm aware) have demanded that they be included in the decisions made by TPTB, fans have stated on many threads that it would be nice to know why these decsions are made and that's the difference. We are fully aware that things happen behind the scenes, decisions are made, people leave either voluntarily or are let go for one reason or another. But what fans are saying now is that they are concerned with the amount of changes that are being made, and they feel as if it's too many in too short a time frame.

People feel that with the amount of cast changes going on that the show will lose the team dynamics and that it won't be the same show that they've come to love. TPTB have their own reasons for making the changes, and the reasons behind those changes are not fully known, and will probably never be known. But when snippets of information from various sites, conventions, actors, blogs etc are passed down in unusual formats or cryptic messages then things can get taken out of context. TPTB believe they are being helpful in sharing this information with us, and a lot of the times people have great fun speculating what's to come. But there are occasions when it would be nice to know why things are happening even if it's just a general statement that's issued.

If the powers that be decide not to share anything with the fans then that's their perogative, but it wouldn't stop the fans feeling disappointed and sharing their disappointment in these types of forums. The whole point of the forums is to discuss your thoughts and feelings of the show that you love. You may not agree with it, but that is your perogative, and if you are unhappy with the threads then don't play there. But it's people like you who catagorize the fandom and put them into your little box designed to your own specifications, and it's not a very nice thing to do.