The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

[parisindy]

The relevant part was this:



Of course, if Caldwell, Zelenka or Lorne actually ends up dying, it'll be all my fault. LOL! But I figure it's only a matter of time, anyway. Assuming the show survives past Season 4 the whole killing trend will probably continue. Gotta drive those ratings up, right?

HA! thats awesome! hehehehehe
green you if i could!
its not a huge suprise you got skipped hehehe but i would have loved to see his face as he read the question hehe

I'm afraid they'll have quite a bit of driving to do. I bet they have to kill the whole cast to get better ratings.

BIG NEWS ON THE SGA-FRONT

Due to falling ratings, TPTB are taking desperate measures to save their precious show. For the first time in sci-fi history an entire cast will be killed off and replaced with a whole new one. Casting has already begun and there are some promising names coming up to play the most important people on the (new) show.

We will keep you up-to-date on this matter. Check back regurlarly for more news.

hehehe you guys rock!

[nonniemous]

Someone on another thread pointed out that Beckett and Weir were axed after some focus group research that NBC did. Their point was in part that Beckett and Weir as characters obviously didn't resonate with the fans, and were therefore the ones that had to go in order to revive SGA's sagging ratings.

All I have to say is if that was the case, they showed only snippets of Beckett in second season, where he was written far too often as either a buffoon for comic relief, or third season, where he was decidedly cranky. Silly me, I thought his crankiness third season was directly attributable to some time spent alone with Michael and TPTB were setting up an arc showing some really cool character growth and making great use of that time.

Silly me. I should have known better.

[ToasterOnFire]

Someone on another thread pointed out that Beckett and Weir were axed after some focus group research that NBC did.

I've heard this too but I'm not sure if it's fact or rumor. There was earlier talk about focus groups, but I have yet to see direct proof that their results led to the removal of Weir and Beckett, only assumption. Does anyone know for sure one way or the other?

And yes nonniemous, the writers didn't give fans a lot to appreciate when it came to characters other than Shep and McKay (we really need a snarky term for them). It's harder for average fans to get excited about underdeveloped characters. I imagine Teyla and Ronon were next on the chopping block. Heck, if TPTB had decided to bring over Teal'c instead of Sam one or both of them would have been gone. Hooray for interchangeability.

[Easter Lily]

Someone on another thread pointed out that Beckett and Weir were axed after some focus group research that NBC did. Their point was in part that Beckett and Weir as characters obviously didn't resonate with the fans, and were therefore the ones that had to go in order to revive SGA's sagging ratings.

All I have to say is if that was the case, they showed only snippets of Beckett in second season, where he was written far too often as either a buffoon for comic relief, or third season, where he was decidedly cranky. Silly me, I thought his crankiness third season was directly attributable to some time spent alone with Michael and TPTB were setting up an arc showing some really cool character growth and making great use of that time.

Silly me. I should have known better.

Could someone direct me to the post in question?

Frankly speaking, I'm skeptical that any research was done... If it is, it begs the question as to what kinds of people made up these groups... We may as well look to fanfiction as an indicator of popularity... it's just as accurate or probably even more so.

Your other point is a good one... I don't think TPTB were planning to oust Beckett or downgrade Weir's presence until cancellation was announced. I certainly never got that feeling from watching S3.

[Celcool]

Could someone direct me to the post in question?

Frankly speaking, I'm skeptical that any research was done... If it is, it begs the question as to what kinds of people made up these groups... We may as well look to fanfiction as an indicator of popularity... it's just as accurate or probably even more so.

Your other point is a good one... I don't think TPTB were planning to oust Beckett or downgrade Weir's presence until cancellation was announced. I certainly never got that feeling from watching S3.

I can't be of help with the post, sorry. That post was speculation btw., no doubt, it's not confirmed.

I just wanted to say that I posted a comment on JM's blog saying basically what you're saying a while ago (the part I bolded). I don't have much idea how the research works myself but I read a post by a person who was part of the research and I based my comment on that. I think the group they gave the polls to can hardly be representative, they're not really fans of the show for most of the time, they vote for whatever, I said that a poll here on GW may be even more valid than those reasearches because here, real fans, who actually watch the show participate. Also, if you ask me, the means of them gettings ratings results is totally silly as well (read a post by a person who was a nielsen box watcher), so outdated and those big network execs unfortunately see only those numbers that actually hardly indicate the reality. It's all screwed up, I know that they have to base their decisions on something to get ads...

[ShadowMaat]

Focus groups imply that they care about what the fans think and are willing to change in order to accommodate them. We've already had plenty of evidence to contradict that. Plus, it's too convenient a scapegoat: "Oh, it isn't OUR fault, it's the focus groups!"

[Falcon Horus]

hehehe you guys rock!

I have my moments.

[nonniemous]

Could someone direct me to the post in question?

The one I saw most recently was in the "Could Carter Replace Weir? Thread" though I've seen it elsewhere. It sounds like Celcooland a few other people have better information. I was simply positing that to get the results they were said to get, they must have stacked the deck to begin with--as Shadowmaat and Alyssahave pointed out.

Frankly speaking, I'm skeptical that any research was done... If it is, it begs the question as to what kinds of people made up these groups... We may as well look to fanfiction as an indicator of popularity... it's just as accurate or probably even more so.

Then the show would be Queer as Stargate and all about wars between all the various shippers.

Your other point is a good one... I don't think TPTB were planning to oust Beckett or downgrade Weir's presence until cancellation was announced. I certainly never got that feeling from watching S3.

I think it's obvious that Vengeance was written with Carson in mind. Then again, I couldn't imagine them revisiting that story arc and NEVER, EVER mentioning his name in the episode--though he was damn near the only character featured in the "Previously, on Stargate..." intro.

If anything, the "focus groups" may translate to the "Market research" that Mallozzi has mentioned on his blog. That supposedly showed that Atlantis skewed heavily to a male demographic--and presto bango, we suddenly no longer have a believable and well-characterized mature male doctor, but a hawt young thang who, capable as she is as an actress, is in no way believable as a CMO. But hey, she is perky in all the right spots and therefore supposedly appealing to all those male viewers. (None of the males in that demographic in my house are interested, though. They all liked Carson better--or think the show jumped the shark back in Season 2.)

Of course, I'm the one in my house who buys all the tie-in merchandise, Season Companions and whatnot. Go figure that one out, M&M and Co.

[Ruined_puzzle]

You mean these

Ah, I love them.

[Celcool]

You mean these
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...ter/main-6.jpg
Ah, I love them.

You can do stuff with them. *runs away*

[dana]

You can do stuff with them. *runs away*

*giggles* Like kids play with Barbie and Ken you mean?

[Arica12]

It's interesting what a bit of distance can do for perspective. I've been away for a few weeks and so haven't been following what's going on but since I've been reading up on what's been going on and have a few comments on the current situation.

My feeling is that TPTB have assumed that because they have made changes before (SG-1, Ford) that viewers would simply shrug and accept them. I also think that they genuinely do not know how to react because they are not used to this kind of conflict with their fans. My feeling is that they are hoping that this is a minority of fans and while granted that the online community should not be used as a definitive barometer of opinion it also cannot be ignored. If even a quarter of non online fans (hope that makes sense) share the anti reaction then their show is finished. (And not just Atlantis either; I wouldn't give the new show great odds of going ahead after that either.)

As to the whole focus groups thing; I don't work in media marketing so it may well be different (though I think I'm being charitable there) but I do have experience in brand marketing and while I have used focus groups in the past for products it has always been with new products, never with established brands - why? For exactly the reasons being so beautifully demonstrated here, when you have a product and you have a market using it you build on that market, you find out what your established market likes and how they would make it better and that's how you bring in new market. Word of mouth is the best form of marketing there is. Using focus groups to decide how to change a product is dangerous because while you make things slightly more appealing to those who are not inclined to use your product initially you run the risk of alienating your established market. And if that happens; it's the end for the product.

Anyway, that's just my two cents worth

[Celcool]

*giggles* Like kids play with Barbie and Ken you mean?

*hihi*

Arica12, that was more than 2 cents worth. Seems like you could teach TPTB and SciFi something.

[ToasterOnFire]

Focus groups imply that they care about what the fans think and are willing to change in order to accommodate them. We've already had plenty of evidence to contradict that. Plus, it's too convenient a scapegoat: "Oh, it isn't OUR fault, it's the focus groups!"

Heh, that sounds familiar.

"Oh, it isn't OUR fault that we wrote in CB's pregnancy, that was skiffy's idea."
"Oh, it isn't OUR fault that we added a SG1 character to Atlantis, that was skiffy's idea." (This hasn't been stated outright yet, but give it time )
"Oh, it isn't OUR fault that SG1 was canceled, that was because of skiffy's poor promotion of the show."

Joe M. has even expanded the last statement to Atlantis, commenting that the success or failure of s4 rests almost squarely on the amount of promotion the show gets from skiffy. No comment whatsoever on whether s4 is written well or whether fans decide to stick around after all the changes. So if s4 is a success they can pat themselves on the back and take the credit, but if ratings tank (and looking at the trend for BSG I believe that's what will happen) then they can pull out the skiffy scapegoat. Bad network! Bad!

In focus groups, they pose questions in a certain way that will get them the answers they want. It's a way of justifying doing what they want to do anyway.

"Question 5: You don't really like the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, do you?"

[Arica12]

Thanks Celcool! Didn't mean to rant and one thing I should point out about Focus groups is that they can be useful but it depends how you use them. If these focus groups were balanced carefully between age, gender, socio economic group etc then yes they can give good data. My understanding though is that media marketing tends to be the first hundred people they pull off the street, answer the ad, speak on the phone etc; I would be interested to hear what sort of Focus Group it was they used.