Martin Gero and Carl Binder's role for season 4(possible spoilers for seasons 3 & 4)

[PG15]

Ha! I knew it! Welcome to the forum Mr. Wright.

[nonniemous]

I
We do care about making the best show we can. We don't deliberately "rehash" old episodes, nor would we ever sabotage our show...
Brad Wright

I honestly find this hard to believe, given that

Spoiler:

Paul McGillion as Carson Beckett

is being dropped from the show in favor of yet another female character who, as the past ten years has amply proved, will be underdeveloped and poorly written--unless, in addition to being a female Doogie Howser, she's going to be a sex kitten a la Vala? Shades of seaQuest, DSV and other "brilliant" Sci Fi shows there, Mr. Wright, dropping compelling and complex characters in favor of sexing/prettying things up. Bravo.

For all that I loved most of his Season 1 episodes, I'll echo the comments about Mr. Gero. [mod snip].

SG1 and Atlantis have been, hands down, some of mine and my family's favorite TV ever. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on most issues when it comes to production and writing, and I'm willing to accept that what is intended on paper and in planning sessions doesn't always translate well on screen, a la Epiphany and Irresponsible. We loved Irresistable. But when a great character is ignored and then dropped in favor of just another pretty face above a set of boobs, I find it hard to believe that anyone in the writing or production rooms have the best interests of the show in mind. We are huge Firefly fans in my house; of the four guys aged 14 - 42 here? Not one of them is interested in Ms. Staite on Atlantis; they all prefer Carson.

Honestly, Mr. Wright? You've lost our entire family. We buy the books; we buy the DVDs. We buy a lot of other merchandise. We even downloaded the eps from iTunes in order to have legal copies until the actual DVDs come out. But we don't tune in to watch the Rodney McKay hour, nor are we interested in the Rodney and Sam or the Rodney and John show, or Pegasus Doogie Howser. We want to see Stargate:Atlantis, the show we fell in love with and have been watching for three years now. You've done a great job building a wonderful cast and compelling characters, even if it has been in spite of yourselves at times. While your story and villain choices haven't always been stellar, we've always had faith that for every Tower,you'd come up with The Inferno (even with its Barbie!Babe-of-the-Week), or a Phantoms or the three Sieges or even Sateda.

No longer. No one in my house is interested in a show that from all current appearances has little or no respect for either its characters or its fans. There are far better ways to spend both our time and our money.

[PG15]

^I seriously do not see how that has anything to do with what Brad said...you're just ranting about Carson. From what I read, TPTB make the show they like to watch, and just so happens a few million people share their point of view. Just because they kicked out Beckett for whatever reason (which we don't know yet), doesn't make what they do wrong or bad or anything. They just did something that you don't agree with.

And of course, Jewel, being female, is automatically a pretty face with a set of boobs. Gosh, I wonder how many times I'm gonna get smacked upside the head for saying that in public.

[Night Spring]

Well, the good doesn't necessarily negate the bad, but it prevents me from erasing the videotape...

Good way to put it! *g*

I accept that in an on-going TV series, there're always going to be a few episodes here and there that suffers in execution, or starts with a premise I dislike for personal reasons regardless of the quality of execution. However, if the ratio of "good" to "bad" episodes decrease beyond a certain point, then obviously, I'm going to stop watching. No show is so absolutely great that I'll watch it no matter what -- it has to retain enough of the elements that attracted me to it in order for me to continue watching.

[Night Spring]

And of course, Jewel, being female, is automatically a pretty face with a set of boobs.

I certainly hope that the new doctor turns out to be as complex and compelling a character as Carson -- but the track record of the Stargate franchise doesn't bode well for this, especially with the new character being female. We already have two major female characters on Atlantis, and they are both woefully underused. I've already been disappointed by the development of Sam in SG-1 -- things like having her get overly emotional in front of subordinates when Jack went missing in Paradise Lost, and seeing the subordinates lose respect for her, well it caused *me* to lose respect for Sam, also. The past record doesn't give me much confidence in the ability of the production/writing team behind Stargate to create and develop compelling female characters. The one complex and compelling female character they did have, Janet Fraiser, they killed off!

So, I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised if the new doctor turns out to be a character I can like and respect, who brings her own unique contributions to the show. But until then -- can I just say I have a very bad feeling about this change.

[nonniemous]

^I seriously do not see how that has anything to do with what Brad said...you're just ranting about Carson. From what I read, TPTB make the show they like to watch, and just so happens a few million people share their point of view. Just because they kicked out Beckett for whatever reason (which we don't know yet), doesn't make what they do wrong or bad or anything. They just did something that you don't agree with.

And of course, Jewel, being female, is automatically a pretty face with a set of boobs. Gosh, I wonder how many times I'm gonna get smacked upside the head for saying that in public.

And because I don't agree with what they've done, I'm not allowed to voice an opinion here? He posted in defense of their decisions as we know them to be so far; I'm posting to disagree with his defense. As for the boob issue, until they come up with some kind of official, valid reason for replacing Beckett, I can only go with the evidence before me and of the shows' records thus far.

As for the reasons why they've kicked out Beckett, I would love to hear Mr. Wright respond on that front. Gee, maybe that's why I posted to begin with?

[Trialia]

Well, Jewel is pretty and she does have a nice rack, but I am hoping for some character development beyond that. What I really want for S4, though, is further development of not just Elizabeth (though that would be VERY welcome), but Teyla. We've barely seen the Athosians except for Critical Mass, how are we meant to believe she's still taking an active role in her own original capacity as their leader, or even that she is? TBH, I'd rather have Teyla not 'shipped with anyone if it is to the detriment of her personal character development as it seems to have been this last season.

Anyway. I'd like to see more Binder scripts, from the commentaries and Mission Directives it seems that the ones where he's had the most input are the ones I've enjoyed the most, with the very notable exception of "Irresistible" (which I find myself having less than no trouble resisting, cough).

Frankly, I don't care one way or the other about

Spoiler:

Paul's leaving - Beckett is the one character of the main ensemble who really irks me, in several ways, so I won't really be sorry to see him go. No offence to Paul, but I really don't like that character.

[TJuk]

I'll echo the sentiments of the posts above. The moment Brad stepped into this forum, as long as the posts within the thread he was posting on had some relation to the original thread subject or the subsequent discussion they are valid. He was talking about the writing staff and their futures on SGA and their 'artistic' decisions for season 3 as well as their writing. Carson and the actors obviously unpopular removal from the cast is part of that and therefore a valid issue. nonniemous wasn't 'ranting', she was presenting a well written opinion on an issue they feel will affect the show and future writing.

As for Jewel, we have 2 already popular but severely under-developed female characters on the show. Whats the point in adding another (unless the more recent rumours are correct) and having 3 under-developed and poorly wrtitten female characters. She may get good stuff to begin with, but if their established history is anythng to go by, she will quickly become wallpaper. Why would she be any different? Unless of course they get new blood on the writing staff and ditch some of the dead weight. Not forgetting a 4th who has suffered inconsistent writing for 10 years, Carter. Its been admitted in PRINT they struggle to write for her. A very poorly advised decision in my eye because in my opion, adding 'Carter' is possible the worst thing they could do, Is it simply to keep 'SG1' alive in the minds of the fans in the hopes of having a base audience for the movies? I hate the idea of them adding ANY SG1 character most of all Carter (no offence to AT). It will severe unbalance the SGA casts dynamic, affect the writing of the characters relationships and seeing as they are already McKay-centric (once again admitted in print) give them yet more excuses to push his character and ignore the rest.

The whole thing is ludicrous. Jewel is not even old enough to be practicing medicine on living patients, she would still be in medical school. Doesn't matter how much of a genius she might be, she would not be allowed outside of the confines of med school, or possibly a large teaching hospital where she can be properly suprervised by other EXPERIENCED doctors. Doesn't matter how its spun, the reason such a young actress has been brought in is obviously for 'boobs' as you put it. Seeing as the entertainment business finds it hard to acknowledge 35+ females as legimate 'sex appeal'. I feel sorry for Jewel, she's a great actress who deserves to have good material to work with and I can only imagine how disappointed Paul must be. I'm sure she has her own doubts about what is or rather is't in store for her character.

I certain cant see Martin 'Marty-Sue McKay' Gero writing anything of substance for her.

[david2708]

I've clearly had too much time on my hands this holiday season... But before I get back to work, I have to speak up.

Paul and Joe will be running the show. They've earned it, and they will do themselves proud.

Every one of the writers currently working on our show is a result of our search for "new blood" for stargate. I am proud of every one of them.

Brad Wright

The.. 'we're all so wonderful, what are you all complaining about'... is one of the big reasons why I'll be tuning out as have many others if you judge the ratings.
"New blood" is hardly that with the same lot staying on year after year after year. They maybe new blood to begin with but years later?
And TPTB wonder why viewers are leaving?

[Alipeeps]

Can I respectfully suggest that we consider using some spoiler tags in this thread? Although this is the Season 3 forum, this thread is not even labelled in the title as containing spoilers and there is a lot of unspoiler-tagged discussion of major upcoming plot points being posted here.

I for one have to say I am pleased Martin will continue to be involved in the show - for the most part I do enjoy his writing, although I do chafe somewhat at his overt love for McKay. I like McKay, I really do.. but there can be too much of a good thing and I'd like to see other characters developed, not just Rodney. Having said that, Gero's McKay episodes this year (thinking particularly here of course of M&MM and Tao) have proven to be wonderful episodes for the team and have, I think, gotten the balance pretty good. Although the storyline has been centred around McKay, Gero has used it to highlight aspects of the team's relationships and to show us some lovely moments of team interaction and friendships. I've have loved this aspect of Season 3 and certainly hope to see that portrayal of the close friendships between the team members continue into Season 4.

[Michelle05]

Having said that, Gero's McKay episodes this year (thinking particularly here of course of M&MM and Tao) have proven to be wonderful episodes for the team and have, I think, gotten the balance pretty good. Although the storyline has been centred around McKay, Gero has used it to highlight aspects of the team's relationships and to show us some lovely moments of team interaction and friendships.

Damian Kindler wrote Tao of Rodney, not Martin Gero. And apparently RCC did a big rewrite on it if you read BW's "turnaround" comment to mean that.

I love McKay-centered eps because I think David is a great actor; he elicits the best from everyone else, IMO.

I think RCC and BW are both great writers and have found S3 to be very well written overall, like you said, with great team moments. It's the bigger show arc and casting/culling decisions that have often mystified me.

[prion]

Can I respectfully suggest that we consider using some spoiler tags in this thread? Although this is the Season 3 forum, this thread is not even labelled in the title as containing spoilers and there is a lot of unspoiler-tagged discussion of major upcoming plot points being posted here.

The thread title has POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR SEASONS 3/4 so, spoiler tags are a bit redundant....

I'll echo the sentiments of the posts above. The moment Brad stepped into this forum, as long as the posts within the thread he was posting on had some relation to the original thread subject or the subsequent discussion they are valid. He was talking about the writing staff and their futures on SGA and their 'artistic' decisions for season 3 as well as their writing. Carson and the actors obviously unpopular removal from the cast is part of that and therefore a valid issue. nonniemous wasn't 'ranting', she was presenting a well written opinion on an issue they feel will affect the show and future writing.

As for Jewel, we have 2 already popular but severely under-developed female characters on the show. Whats the point in adding another (unless the more recent rumours are correct) and having 3 under-developed and poorly wrtitten female characters. She may get good stuff to begin with, but if their established history is anythng to go by, she will quickly become wallpaper. Why would she be any different? Unless of course they get new blood on the writing staff and ditch some of the dead weight. Not forgetting a 4th who has suffered inconsistent writing for 10 years, Carter. Its been admitted in PRINT they struggle to write for her. A very poorly advised decision in my eye because in my opion, adding 'Carter' is possible the worst thing they could do, Is it simply to keep 'SG1' alive in the minds of the fans in the hopes of having a base audience for the movies? I hate the idea of them adding ANY SG1 character most of all Carter (no offence to AT). It will severe unbalance the SGA casts dynamic, affect the writing of the characters relationships and seeing as they are already McKay-centric (once again admitted in print) give them yet more excuses to push his character and ignore the rest.

This gets back to MG and CB's role for season 4. Just what is planned for season 4? It's only SG left now, and I hate to see ANYTHING from SG1 translate over. Please, no more Ori. No Gou'ald. We're in another galaxy for pity's sake. Let's work on fleshing out the Wraith, on fleshing out the characters we already have, before tossing more 'fresh' characters into the mix becuase the writers have, basically, written themselves into a corner with a character or two. I'd like to see, yes, some female writers on the show (but good ones) as heck, perhaps they can get a spin on Teyla or Weir. Or give Carl Binder more freedom to do stuff like "Letters from Pegasus," instead of foisting sitcom humor of "irresponsible" on the audience.

Carter? Well, there's aleady a massively large thread squabbling about her in the news section, so won't say anything here except she'd better have a darn good reason to be on Atlantis and not just be there to reduce McKay's IQ.

I certainly hope that the new doctor turns out to be as complex and compelling a character as Carson -- but the track record of the Stargate franchise doesn't bode well for this, especially with the new character being female. We already have two major female characters on Atlantis, and they are both woefully underused.

Unfortunately that's very true. McKay (who I do like) has gotten the lion's share of character development, even more than Sheppard who I do consider the lead of the show. For pete's sake, I'd love to at least have one episode where we find out about his father who, according to the ancient Skiffy bio, was a colonel himself. Is he alive? If so, what's his opinion of his son with the black mark? It would be interesting to see that.

Both Teyla and Weir need more development, and I'm not talking in the push-up bra area either Teyla was the leader of her people. I'd like to see her LEAD in one episode.

[Trialia]

TBH... I'm bored with McKay, even though I like him.

[Alipeeps]

The thread title has POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR SEASONS 3/4 so, spoiler tags are a bit redundant....

It didn't previously - I assume the mods have altered it because of the high spoilery content of the posts within...

[TameFarrar]

As Per GW rules please use spoiler tags if you are discussing any episode of SG-1 or SGA that is not yet in USA syndication. Regardless of the fact that the title expresses there may be spoilers does not negate that spoiler tags are expected in any thread except the Official Episode threads

Also please keep in mind the topic of this thread. If you take issue with the way another poster expresses themselves personally please do so in private, that is what we have a PM system for. Bear in mind that the *respect fellow members* rule applies even in PM.

Thank You
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator