First Strike (320)

[Falcon Horus]

it is very easy to sit back with hindsight and say something was irrelevant or unnecessary... but try putting yourself into their shoes... (the IOC and SGC)

I'd rather not, to be quite honest. I'd kill myself if I had that kind of responsibility to carry. Because I wouldn't be able to sacrifice 200+ people over those still residing on Earth.

the asurans are a computer-enemy irreversibly PROGRAMMED to be incredibly aggressive and raging and violent...

Are they? They didn't seem aggressive when we first met them. They seemed a pretty peaceful society. It's not until they learn of Atlantis that they suddenly turn evil. They obviously had a problem with their creators, the Ancients.

and we have no proven way of defeating them...

Yes, we do... A little bit more patience and some inventive thinking could have done the trick with ... err... Replicator-falling-apart-in-pieces-technology.

...and if they conquer atlantis they'll quickly learn about earth, and then earth is f'ed...

They did conquer Atlantis in The Return. No idea really if they had any idea about Earth at the time. So, if they did then I'd like to know what stopped them at the time from gating to Earth. I'm pretty sure they would have found a way around the iris.

when you're at war or on the brink of war or under threat from an enemy which you know little of, like Atlantis is, you cant pussyfoot around saying... well waht if the ships aren't going to destroy us... bla bla bla... you make decisions based on 1 thing: protecting earth and atlantis... at all costs...

Without thinking about the consequences, I'd call that stupid. Mulling it over indefinitely isn't the way, that's a fact, but thinking you could get away with it without having to fear for reprisals, that's just plain stupid. They could have at least done something to protect Atlantis a little better than telling them, "Oh yeah, btw, we're going to blow the Asuran ships to kingdome come."

[PG15]

It remains a what if, irrelevant or not.

Besides this is not about Earth, this is about Atlantis being the last line of defence, and they are a weak last line. Earth seems to forget that sometimes. Because whatever Earth decides to do, Atlantis has to pay the prize for it, and blowing it to kingdom come as a last resort is not what we went to Pegasus for.

But, again, that's not important. All that matters at the time of the first strike was the safety of the human race on Earth. 6.5 billion people versus a few hundred in Atlantis. The needs of the many far outweigh the needs of the few, in this case. There was no room for the big picture. The fact was, the Asurans were building ships that could be meant for Earth. If we had done nothing and those ships were launched and they headed for Earth, 6.5 billion people would die. That was a very real possbility.

Now, I agree that they could've mentioned something about protecting Atlantis, but the problem there is that there was no way they'd know what the Asurans will do in return. No matter how much they plan, I don't think they would've expected that satellite, for example. Their ships have been destroyed, the Stargate has a force field on it. There could be literally thousands of methods with which the Asurans could strike back, and anything they could do could just make the situation worse.

Looking back on the episode, the satellite arrived in orbit very soon after they got the telemetry back from the ground zeroes, so they didn't really have much time to do anything anyway.

That is a bad comparison. Are you comparing the Asurans with a rapist?

As horrible as it is (and I know it is), kinda, yeah. They're intentions are both horrible...the rapists want to...well, it's obvious so I won't go into it here, while the Asurans want to kill every human on Earth, which is pretty bad too.

So yeah, it's really the intentions we're worried about.

[IrishPisano]

I'd rather not, to be quite honest. I'd kill myself if I had that kind of responsibility to carry. Because I wouldn't be able to sacrifice 200+ people over those still residing on Earth.



Are they? They didn't seem aggressive when we first met them. They seemed a pretty peaceful society. It's not until they learn of Atlantis that they suddenly turn evil. They obviously had a problem with their creators, the Ancients.

1. maybe you should try putting yourself in their shoes before judging them if you're not willing to, then don't judge them right or wrong.
1b. if you said you'd kill yourself, then you are incredibly weak and i pity you

2. when we learned about the asurans we learned, and it was explicitly stated, that the ancients programmed them to be unnaturally and inhumanly aggressive... you should rewatch the episodes

[Falcon Horus]

IrishPisano, pm you with the rest of the quote since it's most likely going to be a little OT in here.

2. when we learned about the asurans we learned, and it was explicitly stated, that the ancients programmed them to be unnaturally and inhumanly aggressive... you should rewatch the episodes

Nope, no need. Was surfing the SciFi Forums earlier and there was a trivia question about. The agression holding them back to ascend or so they think.
But they didn't seem overly agressive when the team first met them. It's in their base code which Niam wanted Rodney to change.

[PG15]

I read them as having more of a "cold, mechanized agression", meaning that they are determined to accomplish something if given the task, and they will agressively destroy anything blocking them from reaching that goal. They are not (or were not) governed by emotion, so I don't think it'll be the usual kinds of agression you see in humans.

[Falcon Horus]

I read them as having more of a "cold, mechanized agression", meaning that they are determined to accomplish something if given the task, and they will agressively destroy anything blocking them from reaching that goal. They are not (or were not) governed by emotion, so I don't think it'll be the usual kinds of agression you see in humans.

Mmm...that's a good point. I was thinking along the lines of human aggresion therefor not seeing it, but these guys aren't human. They are a bunch of buildingblocks. They are only Lego Mechanics.

[gatechick]

This is one of the episodes that have really hyped me up to watch more of Atlantis, as I have a hard time really gettinginto the show. I loved the ending scene, where

Spoiler:

Atlantis is flying through space, but as I was watching it, and it began to fade it began looking suspicially like one of those snow globes of the disney Magic Kingdom

[mojoqc]

Good episode though I have a problem with the preemptive strike as the best strategy available. I performed a search in this thread and I hope I'm not coming up with stuff you already discussed. SG-1 in last episode of season 4 (Exodus) succesfully destroyed Vorash, it's solar system and most of Apophis fleet by "throwing" an active gate linked to another gate located nearby a black hole, which created an artificial supernova in Vorash's system. Of course, there are some missing details I'd like to know. ie : Is the Replicators planet's located in a different solar system or is it in Atlantis's system ? How could everyone forgot about this strategy ? Maybe some would say you can't find a black hole just like that, but both Atlantis Expedition and SGC are supposed to remember they used a similar strategy when they dialed the Ori supergate using a black hole in Pegasus galaxy and also destroyed a Hive ship plus an Ori ship in the process (SG-1 S10E3 - The Pegasus Project). How can you forget all that and consider a nuke strike is the only option you have to face such a serious threat ? I think it shows the difference between fans and writers. Fans remember that kind of detail, writers don't. I think writers are planning what's to come and forget what's behind. Anyway.. I forgive them and I hope season 4 will be as awesome as I expect ! Excuse me if my English is a little weird. Like McKay, I'm a Canadian but worse than that, I'm a French-Canadian ! Nobody's perfect hey ?!

[Apollodragon]

I like this one a good amount but there where some points where I wanted to smack the cast and crew upside the head. First being Jewel Staite's character Dr. Jennifer Keller I thought she was a good character but it seemed like she was a little to much like here predecessor Dr. Beckett in the since of not knowing if she could handle the job. I felt like the writers short sighted McKay when he says that he doesn't know where they are in the Pegasus Galaxy; I was thinking to myself McKay you can at least get a ball park idea where you are by figuring out the speed you where going, the time you traveled, and direction you where going in. I was also wondering why it didn't appear that the asteroid was moving when the laser was hitting it and also why does the laser have to be red it seems like in every TV show or movie the bad guys use red laser beams. Also where the heck was Apollo during the moving of the city.

[Mattathias2.0]

Granted I am not a fan of preemptive strikes either. I do think the action of destroying those vessels was warranted. Esp. given their history.

1. Attempting to destroy Atlantis (Progeny),
2. Infecting Dr. Weir with a nanovirus that could have killed her (The Real World),
3. Taking over Atlantis with no way of knowing how much information they could have taken from our systems (The Return 1 & 2),
4. and after Interrogating O'Neill and Woolsey with no way of knowing what information they could have gained from either.

It sounds like the Asurans started the way from the beginning, and we are finally taken a deceive action in stopping them.

[Trek_Girl42]

It's a yo-yo!

I knew ahead of the time that the city would be flying, but I had no idea that it would sink! Loved it! Those special effects are gorgeous.

Wasn't expecting what happened to Elizabeth either- that startled me out of my seat. Now I see how she might be leaving..... Liking Doctor Keller from what little we saw of her, and I liked that this season finale wasn't about an all-out space battle- great cliffhanger. Cool idea with the gate and the laser.

Thank goodness there are less than twelve hours until teh next ep! I'm not sure I could handle a longer wait!

Not sure about the new Apollo commander yet- I think I like the character, but I'll need another ep to know. And no one surpasses Caldwell. I want him back soon.

[MmmmMcKAy]

Trek Girl, how are you going to watch "Adrift"? Did you subscribe to the movie network? If so, I'm jealous. I've been thinking about doing it but don't know for sure. Part of me can't be bothered. I'm still hoping my friend will actually remember to tape it for me since she has TMN.

[Trek_Girl42]

Trek Girl, how are you going to watch "Adrift"? Did you subscribe to the movie network? If so, I'm jealous. I've been thinking about doing it but don't know for sure. Part of me can't be bothered. I'm still hoping my friend will actually remember to tape it for me since she has TMN.

Noooo.....I'm using other means to watch this year. Without SG-1 on tv to tide me over, I can't resist.

I went and worked out how much it would cost me to pay for the movie network for ONE season of Atlantis, and this is only if I cancel the subscription immeadiately upon the end of the final episode (this is based upon what my cable company is charging). $120. Minimum. And I forgot to take in to account the mid-season break and any other weeks without episodes, so really, it would be pushing anywhere between $140 to $160. I only put in $20 there for the digital box for the tv. If that costs more, or there's other equipment to buy, then that price again goes up.....Plus, I probably didn't include enough taxes. And that's only if I got the package right for the right movie network channel- if the show is on a higher part of the package the price goes up of course.....the site wasn't very specific so I had to do some guesswork, I picked about the cheapest one there.

Compare that to $45 for the DVD set.



Of course this is all my math, so if anyone knows better and wants to correct me, go ahead.

[Mattathias2.0]

Did anyone else feel the change in the show watching this episode?

Right from the beginning I felt that things were going to be different. Adding the Apollo/Ellis and Keller only made it more so.

[Lauriel]

Did anyone else feel the change in the show watching this episode?

Right from the beginning I felt that things were going to be different. Adding the Apollo/Ellis and Keller only made it more so.

I agree, although for me it was from Sunday onward, and not becuase of Carson. There was a different feel to it in the last few eps, and some of the arcs they were setting up for the future looked exciting, as well.