First Strike (320)

[prion]

maybe it's just me, and maybe it's already been said, but am I the only one that's tired of replicator story line?

Nope, there are others like me would prefer they be gone and that the writers get back to the wraith, who, hmm, I think they're busy gnoshing away on the inhabitants of the PEgasus Galaxy....

Good. Weir is gone. Thats the first step into making Atlantis into the show it should have been all along. Once again she proves that she has no business leading Atlantis. The difference is that this time, -she's- the one who got hurt instead of others under her command. I bet the Marines are breathing a sigh of relief.

Why was she whining to Teyla before the first strike? It sounded like a child weeping 'they wont do what I tell them, I'm going home, and I'm taking my ball with me'. Only in this case, Weir doesnt have the proverbial ball. She brought nothing of value to the expedition and so her threat of stepping down had no weight behind it. Even Teyla knew that. Her one skill is supposed to be negotiating, and she trots that one out even when it make no sense to. Got a Wraith Queen bent on your desturction? Lets make a deal with her and in the process get a virus stuck in the computer system. How about bunch of replicators who want Earth gone, lets talk to them and once again, get a virus. She should have been replaced 2 years ago, and I for one hope it happens soon.

Next season I expect Atlantis to flourish.

D

Ouch. I wouldn't say Weir was whining. Good grief, she's allowed to vent like anybody else. But, this was the writers way of suddenly going. we're getting rid of Weir, let's plant the seeds of doubt and then blow her up so we'll have a reason to not have her in season four. Actually, not attempting to negotiate and blowing things up tends to end badly. Rodney really has the right to say "told you so" in this episode as the military was very short-sighted in just how much they had to blow up. Did they really think the Asurans wouldn't fight back?? Gah, it's like reading today's newspapers on how wars are run.

can't say if Atlantis will flourish or not in season 4, not with all the changes they keep making.

[prion]

Ok, let's not be too hasty here. There is NO confirmation that Weir is being killed off; she's just off the show for a while.

Uh, she's doing 4 episodes in season 4 with no confirmation of any further, so 'off the show for a while' is alas, wishful thinking.

[CalmStorm]

Overall I liked this episode. I liked the way Weir handled herself with Ellis. Loved the scene where McKay was going over submerging the city and Ellis "ordered" him to do it and McKay was quick enough to tell him that wasn't his call. It was cool to see the city submerge and cool to see it fly and sad to see them leave Lantia.

On the bad side, it's getting a little old with ranking commanders coming in and being complete asses upon their arrival to Atlantis. We saw it with Cln. Everett, we saw it with Cln. Caldwell, and now Ellis. They all seem to come in with a pre-existing chip on their shoulder with the SGA team.

The other item that was out of place was Weir's conversation with Teyla. That was just the writers creating the atmosphere for her departure. She has been established as someone who cares about Atlantis and her team more than anything else. She places the city and the people first. She has not been made out as the whiny type who would just quit and leave it all because she is at odds with some of the higher ups. It's getting old placing a character out of character to suit a story. It just comes off as cheesy when that happens.

[prion]

The other item that was out of place was Weir's conversation with Teyla. That was just the writers creating the atmosphere for her departure. She has been established as someone who cares about Atlantis and her team more than anything else. She places the city and the people first. She has not been made out as the whiny type who would just quit and leave it all because she is at odds with some of the higher ups. It's getting old placing a character out of character to suit a story. It just comes off as cheesy when that happens.

heh, sorta like what they did with the Asgard in "Unending"

[SG13-NightOps]

I think additionally, what I first blurted out


is a classic and perfect example of "conditioning". Viewers have been so conditioned into watching Sheppard fly the jumpers along with Rodney, Carson, and whoever else either had a portion of the ancient gene or was injected with it, that such occurrences have basically lost their *magic* touch (of seeing it and reacting with Oooo's and Ahhh's and "wow!'s"). The only time it's usually remembered during those moments, is if someone new is flying the jumper - hmmm, does that person have the gene naturally or were they injected with it??

anyway, regarding the conditioning effect-
... I can sort of understand why some folks are tired of Stargate as a program for the same reasons - the newness has worn off. Except, the conditioning effect here is a constant, repetitive action, not a program's story.

... regarding the conditioning effect-
It's similar to the effects of driving a car or riding a horse. When you first get your driver's license, it's *cool* and scary at times (especially on black ice!), but after 25 years of needing to drive to the store and work - it's no big deal... but a necessity. You've been programmed into driving so much, that it's like operating the fancy features on an electric carpet vacuum, or a cake mixer. Yes, those aren't the same objects, but the principle idea behind them are similar.


The newness of those first few moments have become a distant or blurred memory. So, after months of not seeing Shep, himself in the *ancient* chair and putting it to purposeful use - it was a pleasant surprise to see "HIM" in their personally, with (what I think ended up being) a few additional attractions that went with it.

hope that makes better sense.

Totally. I agree. Sorry if I came off sarcastic. I guess I just remembered back to Rising where he was sat in the hovering, just de-cloaked jumper and says "This is why your brought me".

I personally could never get sick of Stargate - although as an Also SG1 fan, I am sick of replicators. They really messed that up when they humanised them, IMO. They were cool until then. Now all we get are the human ones.

But I loved First Strike. Visually stunning for starters. Now its a Yo-yo, not a city!

[CalmStorm]

heh, sorta like what they did with the Asgard in "Unending"

I actually liked the story line for the Asgard in Unending. SG-1 had not heard from them in a very long time and things changed in that span of time.

Since this is the SGA thread, I don't want to spoil anyone who hasn't seen that episode, but I think the Asgard arc in Uneding was more believable than Weir babbling about quitting. With Weir, it just does not seem plausible for her to be at the point of quitting with her recent behavior and character. With the Asgard, it seemed somewhat plausible given their situation and the amount of time that had passed since SG-1s last encounter. If their situation was not what it was, then I would have found the entire arc as ridiculous as Weir's whiny scene with Teyla.

[IrishPisano]

I actually liked the story line for the Asgard in Unending. SG-1 had not heard from them in a very long time and things changed in that span of time.

Since this is the SGA thread, I don't want to spoil anyone who hasn't seen that episode, but I think the Asgard arc in Uneding was more believable than Weir babbling about quitting. With Weir, it just does not seem plausible for her to be at the point of quitting with her recent behavior and character. With the Asgard, it seemed somewhat plausible given their situation and the amount of time that had passed since SG-1s last encounter. If their situation was not what it was, then I would have found the entire arc as ridiculous as Weir's whiny scene with Teyla.

well... given weir's situation... being told she has 100% backing by everyone, and then having her abilities questioned when things aren't going good... it's understandable that she'd be reconsidering her post... no one would want to be in command when you are being double talked by TPTB...

if you ask me, though, atlantis never should have been civilian controlled after they encountered the Wraith... civilian science expedition, yes, but they should have had a stronger military presence, and a military commander running the base...

i hope they don't make that mistake with SGU...

you don't go into the unknown, having experienced what we have in 2 galaxies now, without backup

[CalmStorm]

well... given weir's situation... being told she has 100% backing by everyone, and then having her abilities questioned when things aren't going good... it's understandable that she'd be reconsidering her post... no one would want to be in command when you are being double talked by TPTB...

When was she formally informed that she had an absolute 100% backing by everyone? The IOA supported her for the position, but they are a committee and a committee is what it. Its support can and does waiver, it is not necessarily absolute. Especially the IOA.

She is a diplomat and more than familiar with the political games that are played by all those in a position of power. Anyone in that position will always have their abilities questioned by someone, anyone and everyone. It is simply the nature of the job.

There will always be those who second guess the leader in charge and usually, when they are a good leader, those doing the second guessing are most often those on the outside who want the job or the power for control.

Personally, I don't find it reasonable for this character to be ready to throw in the towel and actually be seriously considering resigning. This is no ordinary post, and all indications from this character is that even with the posts downside, there is nothing to come close to comparing with the post.

This is just my perception of the situation.

[elbo]

Ouch. I wouldn't say Weir was whining. Good grief, she's allowed to vent like anybody else. But, this was the writers way of suddenly going. we're getting rid of Weir, let's plant the seeds of doubt and then blow her up so we'll have a reason to not have her in season four.

He was right you know. She were really whining (the scene with Teyla). I just want to add that is not the first time; when important issues are debated or happening, Weir is always complaining about HER undermining. So is not the "writers way to ... plan seed of doubt", is just Weir's way to tell : "yes ok, Earth is in danger, all the world is falling apart, BUT they trying to undermine ME, some of the military are not happy that a civilian and a woman is in charge". Hello ... there are more importat issues at stake here than your compexes and authority, dear Elizabeth!

Actually, not attempting to negotiate and blowing things up tends to end badly. Rodney really has the right to say "told you so" in this episode as the military was very short-sighted in just how much they had to blow up. Did they really think the Asurans wouldn't fight back?? Gah, it's like reading today's newspapers on how wars are run.

Sorry to disagree. All Weir opposition is based on 2 false and unrealistic arguments: "negociation" and "buying some time". Of course that theoretical she is right, but not practical, giving what we know about Asurans. The military are not some "aggresive bunch", short-minded, obsesed to destroy everything sencient. I'm sure that they preffere a pacefull solution and keeping their lifes to the alternative, meaning war. The only problem with this human form replicators is that any atempt to "negociate" will be ended with a "hand in the head". But maby you can offer some past events that suggest otherwise.

Again. Negociating is good stuff. The problem with the negociation is that all parties should gain something from it. We see that even the Wraith can negociate with their food. Giving a periodic supply of food, they even let the general populatin alone. Regarding Asurans i cannot see what we can offer them (to stop building ships), maby some human test subjects for their further nanovirus.

[IrishPisano]

weir's other problem is that she does not like the military and the military does not like her so she will do everything she can NOT to resort to military solutions... bc then she will have failed and lose a lot of poitns in everyone's books...

a great leader would know when to use diplomacy, and when to use the military... weir has too much trouble making those decisions...

[elbo]

In "First Strike", the military are under a time constrain scenario. A 3 weeks earlier picture showed over 20 ships in a advanced state of construction and we also know the "the repicator can buid and rebuild remarkably fast". Destroying them when are still on the ground is not a solution, but the only one.

I also don't understand Rodney's atitude which thinks of sabotaging the missles. He got a sister and a nephew back on Earth for the god sick. Their lifes must mean something to him, something more tha some "respect" he had for Weir's "authority". Unfortunately the writers practicaly destroy with that scene everything that they build on Rodney's character for 3 season, only to show that Rodney is Weir fanboy. Don't you see that Weir has no one left on Earth, she could care less if Earth is destroy because she has nothing to loose.

[PG15]

I don't see that scene as connecting Rodney with Weir at all. I mean, they're looking at the proverbial stick-poking-a-beehive situation. Rodney knew that the Asurans weren't going to take this lying down and that they're going to do something about it.

[beneaththeblue]

In "First Strike", the military are under a time constrain scenario. A 3 weeks earlier picture showed over 20 ships in a advanced state of construction and we also know the "the repicator can buid and rebuild remarkably fast". Destroying them when are still on the ground is not a solution, but the only one.

I also don't understand Rodney's atitude which thinks of sabotaging the missles. He got a sister and a nephew back on Earth for the god sick. Their lifes must mean something to him, something more tha some "respect" he had for Weir's "authority". Unfortunately the writers practicaly destroy with that scene everything that they build on Rodney's character for 3 season, only to show that Rodney is Weir fanboy. Don't you see that Weir has no one left on Earth, she could care less if Earth is destroy because she has nothing to loose.

She has a mother on Earth (if that part of TRW was correct), and one could assume she has friends. And even if you don't like her, I think it's a bit much to say she doesn't care if her home planet is destroyed! I believe she has on several occasions been ready to destroy Atlantis and/or herself in order to save Earth from the Wraith.

Both she and Rodney have good reason to distrust the military, since they have on several occasions barged in to take over without having all the facts, putting aside Elizabeth's leadership and Rodney's scientific expertise, only to realize later that they needed both.

[elbo]

I don't see that scene as connecting Rodney with Weir at all. I mean, they're looking at the proverbial stick-poking-a-beehive situation. Rodney knew that the Asurans weren't going to take this lying down and that they're going to do something about it.

The Asurans will do something about it no matter the attack. Clues:

1. "They are building ships. A lot of them."
2. They already sent a ship to Atlantis, knowing that are humans there, but they find ancients: "The Return"
3. "In Progeny", their fly their city to Atlantis : "Our intention is to destroy it"

The difference is that after the attack they don't send over 20 ships to Atlantis or Earth, but one sattelite, which is easier to take down or avoid, than a armada. And let's not forget Earth, who is now safe at least for a while.

I see Rodney in "First Strike" adopting the same atitude like Weir, that's all. The replicators are neither "sleeping" neither scared (how Weir suggest several times). We didn't heard from them, because they were aparently busy "buiding ships". Or you suggest that the Asurans, when they are "scared" they build weaponry?

[elbo]

She has a mother on Earth (if that part of TRW was correct), and one could assume she has friends. And even if you don't like her, I think it's a bit much to say she doesn't care if her home planet is destroyed! I believe she has on several occasions been ready to destroy Atlantis and/or herself in order to save Earth from the Wraith.

Maby i sounded a little dramatic. But at least in "First Strike" she put the Atlantis (the city, not the expedition which could have been evacuated in the time in which she protestested to Jack O'Neill and Woolsey) before Earth. Or i'm wrong?

Yes there are several occasions in which she give the "auto-destruct" order and evacuation of Atlantis, but only before she lost her boyfriend (in "Intruder") not after. Maby i miss the same thing happening in season 2 and 3.

Both she and Rodney have good reason to distrust the military, since they have on several occasions barged in to take over without having all the facts, putting aside Elizabeth's leadership and Rodney's scientific expertise, only to realize later that they needed both.

Yes i agree with that, there is some desconsidering of the civilian by the military in all SG series. But let's not forget how many time the military personal give their life protecting civilian and scientists and briliant minds like dr. McKay. This must worth something in Rodney or Weir's value system.

But what i was pointing out, there are situations, like this one, when the personal ego and feelings or prejudicies, must be let aside and focused on the bigger threat and general good. The conflict in "First Stike" is between logic and prejudicies, not between military and civilian or Atlantis vs. Earth.