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    This was a bb ep...
    Bloody Brilliant!!!


    I can't talk enough about it, there is no rating of this ep, it was just fantastic. Now be prepared for slight exclamaitions, recriminations, and chastisement of different things based on this ep, but it is definitely one of the best eps, reminiscint of S2 (my personal-fave season, which is getting beaten by S3).

    About the ep in general: I wasn't feeling the beginning because I kept getting the feeling like I was watching Alien, so to hear John make comment on that was funny, especially since before I even saw Submersion I kept asking for an ep on the abyss (and unfortunately Submersion less than lacking when comparing it to The Abyss). That being said, I wasn't really looking forward to this ep that much since also I didn't hear the amount of chat on it that I dealt with when Sunday aired or even Submersion for that matter. But despite the Alien look, and the plastic Super-Iratus hands, I was okay with it. I even liked the cocoon thing, it brings back the S1 ep The Underground...and the connection with Conversion was great!! I also liked the division of the team with McKay/Teyla and Ronon/John, great great division and still great chemistry and team unity. This is one of the best pieces of great writing for an episode and story. Plus it definitely took into consideration fan complaints, except for maybe mine in regards to leadership.


    Let's begin...it's not all nice.

    Weir is the lucky lady in spoiler tags, since most people will probably be offended by what I say; since I've seen people take character criticism personally. Spoiler tags will be my wordless disclaimer. So don't whinge to me later, I give you a chance to ignore it.

    Spoiler:
    Ahhh...Weir, Weir, Weir, I don't know what to say about this woman. I just don't know what to say...when she says to Teyla at the end...'WE let him get the info when he was last here on Atlantis' (paraphrasing) I almost threw something at the screen. Revolting, take the blame, because YOU are at fault---Miss Executive Decision Maker/Final Decision Maker/Last Point of Okay's!!! Teyla and John, said...'Don't let him run free' She listened to Carson and Heightmeyer over her second in command AND his second---It's YOUR fault we're in this bloody mess. Not to mention you had the experiments and him brought back to Atlantis, no one else has that authorization...and she's talking about 'we' there is no 'we'. I am disgusted by this woman's attitude . There is no shared blame here, Carson is now dead. Heightmeyer is less than insignificant...

    Michael was able to get his info before the second time, where Teyla was completely against his full freedom and what not, ditto for John, so this is on you. Take bloody responsibility. As for the marines, she did pose the logical questions, so her leadership or lackluster part on that meant nothing to me, since I guess I would believe the same. As for the final part, no way in caboodles...she needs to own up here and drop the 'We' and take on the 'I', although if she did say that, I would probably say she was fishing.


    Good Mckay, he was real funny, I really liked this ep for him, although I do have one point to say. You'd think that McKay would carry around duplicate crystal keys, especially after 'Lost Boys', it's too convenient that the wraith dart was near by. And no, I don't find carrying spare duplicate copies of gate crystals convenient.

    So true, so true, so true. Ronon was true to form. He was telling like it is and I'm lovin' it!! I was like yes, you and Teyla were on the same page, but she was more supportive of the Atlantean decision, but overall he did say, 'Hell no!!' even if he did follow suit with the team. I loved Ronon in this ep, it was a great ep for him and finally no lap dog to the rest of the team and put in some more thans than just brute force. Not to mention I was getting a bit tired of seeing Ronon being b***h slapped around, or having his ass handed back to him. It becomes a bit disheartening to say the least. I loved his mini he-man sword, it was cool, and came in useful. Much props to the scene with him and Rodney it was funny. It was realistic.
    **Although I'm still holding out on my Teyla teaching Zelenka scene (that's a not-so subliminal message to writers to put that scene in...)

    Well, it was Shep. I don't know what more to say than that. I mean it was Shep saying he hates bugs, it was Shep in shades, it was Shep biting his tongue when Ronon started laying down the truth, cause he knows Ronon is right. It was Shep listening to his second in command who had a very logical and definitely healthier plan (thank you Teyla) and it was shep looking good in black. I like Shep. Shep is good, pretty much as is. Oh and it's Shep buffed up and against Michael, so all was good for me around Shep. Bit of superficial and bit good support, I think he was fantastic, but there was nothing overtly dynamic than seeing him react to Teyla and Ronon, so that was his plus. Further more, another great ep that proves my point that Teyla does not take order's from John, she chooses to follow suit if she cannot think of something better. But she steps up and makes him listen when he's wrong.


    Now, what's up with Tey getting kidnapped again. Now if a similar incident didn't happen in lets say The Ark, I really wouldn't have a problem now. Her whumping is good for me, since I like it, but really---It's a bit done too much, although it definitely fits more so here. Rather than having her kidnapped in The Ark, she should have been hurt or something, that would have flowed well and not seemed too over one, but realistic. How did Teyla do in this ep? She did great, logical moment with John, understand her commentary with Michael, and anyway I just like any scene she shares with Michael---there's serious energy there. If you're wondering, I would be a shipper for them; but there's way way way way way way way too much baggage, they'd kill each other. In Michae's first statement, when he said something about sharing and reversing the retro-virus; I thought he was gonna make Teyla his queen...don't ask, just don't ask!! Otherwise, it was the same old Teyla.

    ** Oh and in the scene with the big bug showing his face, I thought I was gonna have to deal with a Teyla raped by a Bug scene...more disgusting things have been known to be thought. Yes, but then I saw the mini bug who changed that idea.

    ****Oh and I find Teyla getting kidnapped or captured is like Ronon getting slapped around like a... ( you know what I'm getting at) this season!

    <---That's Michael. Okay so Michael was great, I love Vengeance and him showing up. I like the new enemy and how this adds to the show and storyline. It's bloody great, now I have the Wraith, the Asurans, and a new enemy who's easily blasted away by Ronon's gun. Of course in next season they'll make them far more resilient, becuase I'm sure Michael will having problems with how easy they were to kill by Ronon's gun and work on that, which will be great.

    This ep makes me look forward to S4, so I loved it and definitely beat out Sunday and Echoes and goes right behind Sateda, Progeny, and the Return I.

    Bloody Brilliant!!!
    Last edited by vaberella; 31 January 2007, 02:00 PM.
    Click statement above to read article.

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      Oh SGA, I wanted to give you a chance, I really did, but what a yawn fest, couldn't get past the first half. And Teyla gets kidnapped yet again, how original, if they're going to repeat themselves they should have at least waited a season, not make it that obvious.
      Meh!, I wanna watch Atlantis, but what episode should I watch?, the other one where Teyla gets kidnapped, or the one where she gets possessed?, I think tptb have finally found a use for Teyla, she's officially become SGA's damsel in distress, she's becoming quite the caricature.
      I hope First Strike turns out to be good, there should be at least one good episode in the last part of the season, a dignified end to a season that showed so much promise.

      Comment


        Started off good, ended up being a bit boring.

        And can I say - WHY is Teyla still on the team? She hasn't contributed ANYTHING to the episodes at all this season - other than being kidnapped. (And that is the fault of the writers. Once again letting a good actress go to waste.)

        Overall, not a bad episode and I would probably watch it again.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Suzotchka View Post
          Started off good, ended up being a bit boring.

          And can I say - WHY is Teyla still on the team? She hasn't contributed ANYTHING to the episodes at all this season - other than being kidnapped. (And that is the fault of the writers. Once again letting a good actress go to waste.)

          Overall, not a bad episode and I would probably watch it again.
          Ok, did you see 'Submersion' at all? Lay off Teyla, she does more good than others...

          awesome sig by Camy!
          Sheppard/Teyla LiveJournal

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            Originally posted by Suzotchka View Post
            WHY is Teyla still on the team?
            I guess it's so that they've got someone to rescue.

            Comment


              I just saw "Vegeance" and all that I have to say is that for the whole entire Michael/Teyla scene, for the life of me, I could not take my eyes off of her cleavage, lol. I must of watched that scene like 7 times already. Just watching Rachel breath in and out in that black tanktop. My GOODNESS!!! I need a screen cap of her on that examination table, lol.

              But I do agree, for a warrior woman they need to stop having her end up like the "damsel in distress", they did that to Carter for the longest time and I hated it.

              And quit making her the first one to get shot on a mission, its sexist!!!!


              NQ
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              by Sheylafan87

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                Originally posted by Celede View Post
                Ok, did you see 'Submersion' at all? Lay off Teyla, she does more good than others...
                I agree lay off Teyla.

                Teyla contributes to her team, just like all of her male counterparts. She tends to be the diplomatic one, a true explorer, there to help make allies whenever possible.


                NQ
                Last edited by NubianQueen; 31 January 2007, 05:38 PM.
                Valent: Renee Elise Goldsberry/Evangeline Williamson Fansite
                Spoiler:
                by Sheylafan87

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                  Originally posted by NubianQueen View Post
                  And quit making her the first one to get shot on a mission, its sexist!!!!


                  NQ
                  But when they shoot Rodney first its comic relief and shooting Ronon he sshrugs it off and acts like it didn't happen, and they cant shoot Shep first repeatedly hes meant to be the hero type guy, and when a red shirt gets shot its the end of them, and Weir doesn't go on enough missions to get shot first all the time.

                  btw i think the top and cleavage shots are probably more sexist than her getting shot first LMAO (not that im complaining).
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                  Comment


                    Great Episode, I loved the whole action/horror type thing they had going there Vengence is probably for me been the best episode this season apart from Return Part II.

                    Firsty the opening scene with Rodney and Ronon was soo funny Rodney learning to use swords lol!

                    Second it was obvious that Weir jumped the gun and sent those poor marines to their deaths ot you could look at it the other way and say the marines were dumbasses for not jumping into the bushes when theres a dart coming, is it really intellegent to stand in the path of a dart when you could easily get beamed aboard?

                    Third, major Aliens feel that is one of my favourite action/horror movies and it was nice for the writers to finally get back to one of the more action packed episodes. Remember Michael said that "There were many failures" meaning that the ones that Ronon was probably cutting down were Michaels earlier experiments that were failures and were also quite weak.

                    Fourth when they were talking about the retro-virus there wasn't any need to bring up Carson if there was then it would have seemed quite forced there was no need to mention Carson there just from listening to the dialogue you already know who Michael is talking about there no need to actually say his name i think the writers did a great job with bringing up the whole retro-virus thing

                    Score: 9/10 only one thing that takes it down for me is that The Shroud was better

                    Comment


                      I thought this was a great ep. I loved the team interaction. I loved them questioning the morality of the retrovirus and the subsequent events. I absolutely loved Ronon arguing with Shep and standing by his principles.

                      I think the darker tone of the ep really worked and I really liked them picking up the Michael arc in this fashion. I hope they are setting this up so they can follow it in s4 rather than having it as a stand alone ep.

                      Ronon's line about liking Sheps idea better cracked me up too.

                      RE Carson - I don't think it would have worked to mention him in this ep. It would be wildly inappropriate for the team to mention him when they are being chased by superbugs, for starters. As for the scene with Michael/Teyla, the only avenue I can see mentioning Carson would be for Michael to mention he would like to seek revenge on Carson, which would lead to Teyla saying too late. Once that's done, the only two options would be for Michael to either let the comment pass or to gloat over Carson's death. Since I can't see many fans being to enthusiastic over this, I think it was a far more graceful option to simply not mention Carson in this scene. Personally, I wouldn't expect to hear much mention of Carson until they introduce Keller, and I wouldn't expect too much in that scene either. It may be appropriate to have mention of him in some scenes at a later date.
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                        I've got to say it was a very dark episode. Those "Super-Wraith" were scary, huge SOBs, that's all I'll say. I give it a **1/2.

                        1 week until the season finale.
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                          heh Teyla doesn't 'Wraith super-powers' its just that she can sense them and connect with their minds

                          and yeah those bugs did look pretty stupid, but then again they were Michael's 'failures'

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                            Originally posted by Suzotchka View Post
                            Started off good, ended up being a bit boring.

                            And can I say - WHY is Teyla still on the team? She hasn't contributed ANYTHING to the episodes at all this season - other than being kidnapped. (And that is the fault of the writers. Once again letting a good actress go to waste.)

                            Overall, not a bad episode and I would probably watch it again.
                            Are any of the women important?! Really now?!

                            Besides being the voice of reason and throwing a few ninja kicks, she does nothing.

                            Besides giving out a few orders that Chuck could do on his down time, she does nothing---doesn't even give me ninja kicks and apparently never will.

                            Both women are glorified extras, at this point...I'm over it!! Three seasons later nothing added nothing really taken away.

                            Originally posted by Celede View Post
                            Ok, did you see 'Submersion' at all? Lay off Teyla, she does more good than others...
                            Let them be, it's not like any of the ladies achieve nothing, at least some do more than other's...like know how to dial a gate?!

                            Originally posted by NubianQueen View Post
                            I just saw "Vegeance" and all that I have to say is that for the whole entire Michael/Teyla scene, for the life of me, I could not take my eyes off of her cleavage, lol. I must of watched that scene like 7 times already. Just watching Rachel breath in and out in that black tanktop. My GOODNESS!!! I need a screen cap of her on that examination table, lol.

                            But I do agree, for a warrior woman they need to stop having her end up like the "damsel in distress", they did that to Carter for the longest time and I hated it.

                            And quit making her the first one to get shot on a mission, its sexist!!!!


                            NQ
                            Dude you're not the only one. I even said, that stupid bug got an upclose and person with TT (Teyla (you know?!))---the place all the men on SGA long to get a hold of (all said tongue in cheek ).

                            By the one she's not the first one to get shot in a mission, that's normally a title given to McKay (thank [insert diety] my man got a break)!!

                            The 'damsel in distress' is the best way it seems for them to portray women. Weir is shown to have a big mouth when she's flanked by about 5 men, and then put in her place ie by Caldwell, Kolya, and others, when alone. Teyla is the sympathetic zen mama, who unfortunately is given the title as the 'voice of reason'---with rarely any complexity at times---Trinity and Letters of Pegasus gives us something more out of the norm for her.

                            Until some of these guys decide to hang out with different women and possibly model their women after women in their daily lives, ie their mum's, aunts, and sisters---then we'd see some originality. Mainly both these women give me the impression at times of being the ideal female--who falls short by 'feminine attitudes'<---take note said in parenthesis.

                            Teyla is the ninja female---ie Xena, who's empathic like Gabrielle, it's like Xena and Gabrielle in one---like they couldn't decide.

                            Weir is like...Judge Judy in her first year as judge. Not bad, not good---but needs to be emotionless to get the job done.<--sarcasm

                            Originally posted by Ripple in Space

                            BTW, what is Michael's reasoning behind these things? they can't operate weapons, so a good sniper could demolish his army. Shepp could even just hover the puddle jumper 15ft. up, and pick them off w/ ease.

                            And what's w/ Teyla being the hostage/captive all the time? Isn't she the strongest member of the team? Ronan's tough and all, but Teyla has Wraith super-powers. It just seems sexist to have the super powered chick getting captured so often.

                            My answer to the first is this, the motivation is to have protectioni against both humans and wraith. Those things look like they take orders from only one person, that's Michael---so they don't care if you're wraith or human. Secondly they have wraith strength and also may be unaffected by the wraith stunner, which seems to be the ONLY real weapon of the wraith; ie, Ronon on stun was not working. Unfortunately they are still weak when taking into Ronon, but also remember that Michael is still running tests, and I get the feeling this was one of his tests to see how they do against Atlantis army weaponry. They withheld really well against basic earth weapons, but not so well against Ronon's plasma guns. Which means he's gonna have to develop something a bit stronger to with stand that, but based on numbers---he's got that down so that's okay. Or, it would seem the Atlantis team would need to be able to get plasma guns, and lots and lots of C4.

                            Yeah Teyla is the strongest, but again she's up against Micheal, he has a this really great mental hold on her, that borders on the emotional so that's something to take into consideration. Not only that I think they threw some of the eps to close together, like Submersion should have aired earlier or at least The Ark, because the back to back thing is not working out to their advantage.

                            I don't know if it's sexist, since this is logical and so was Submersion, I'm do think that The Ark one could have been left out and they could have done better in achieving a similar end, but that's about it for Teyla captured, she was alright the rest of the season (oh right, cause she really wasn't used ).

                            Sorry to say I prefer this of Teyla over Ronon getting smacked around all the time. That's becoming tedious, since he is the strongest male, but we have eps like Progeny, squated like a fly; Sateda, he gives a great battle cry and the Wraith pulls out an arm, like he's stretching and Ronon is kissing cement; or don't get me started on The Return II, where his hair became his liability and they tripped him----come on now. Make it stop!! That stuff is too much to handle, it's like against normal humans Ronon has a chance, but otherwise he's worthless---gives you the impression that the big gun and knives are hiding some kind of inadequacy. Keep in mind he was like the man's man in S2---so this is insulting.
                            Click statement above to read article.

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                              Originally posted by Lightbane View Post
                              heh Teyla doesn't 'Wraith super-powers' its just that she can sense them and connect with their minds

                              and yeah those bugs did look pretty stupid, but then again they were Michael's 'failures'
                              1. Actually she does, check out S1, first episode, Teyla literally jumps 3-4 feet in the air.
                              **If you're not a track runner with years of experience normal people can't do that; I don't even think with years of plyometric exercises can get you to jump that high. She most likely can run faster than Ronon, because she's also beaten John in Running, have her tap into that and she can be a marathon runner. That's not necessarily super human, but you never know.

                              2. She's the only one who has done a hand to hand or combat fighting with a wraith and gotten hits in, ie Suspicion.
                              **Ronon again was squated like a fly. So that's a few things to think about, I wouldn't think of doing that. And most of everyone else needs a gun to subdue a wraith.

                              3. She normally takes longer to go down by a wraith stunner, that's in The Gift.
                              **When the Wraith took over her mind, which means her recessive gene does prevent her from going down easily if she taps into it. The wraith normally need close range shot or two shots to go down. The humans one shot and their out for the rest of the time.

                              4. She wakes up from injuries faster.
                              **Carson makes suggestions to this and also she wakes up from the wraith stunner faster---examples are also seen in 'The Hive' and 'TLG' she only sweated a lot and healed faster while Ronon was suffering considerable pain when getting off the drugs, he was close to death; Teyla was helping him stand. This is something else that's not normal and rather super human---cause other humans died--Fords comrade for example.

                              5. Then there's the wraith mental abilities.
                              **She can walk in their minds, and take control if she practices enough, since she was able to give mental suggestions ie Submersion---how in the hell is this normal, let me know---that is super human, since basic humans can't do that; the Wraith control them.

                              6. Then we have the ship flying.
                              **wraith hive, that's not normal and in other words super human, her dna gives her that genetic advantage.

                              7. And last but not least, to bring up Carson, check out The Gift, he specifically says...'super powers'.

                              So yeah, she's definitely super human, since she has abilities far more than mere humans have. Until we see about 60% of the population with the same abilities, she's one step up the human ladder.
                              Last edited by vaberella; 31 January 2007, 09:14 PM.
                              Click statement above to read article.

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                                Originally posted by g.o.d View Post
                                It was funny.

                                Imagine this:you're walking with your team in the abandoned underground complex where is definetly something/somebody what/who wants to kill you/eat you/have a sex with you(remember B5:Crusade and that hyperspace creatures and Excalibur ship ) and the first thing you do is to split up the team a every member has to go alone in the dark corridors.

                                I would say "f*** you guys I won't go alone"
                                Even I would and I'm trained in combat but against those things I would demand backup, or at least Ronon!
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