Submersion (318)

[IWantToBelieve]

I don't know, I liked Common Ground and Ark but didn't care much for this episode. The pacing was slow, the plot far too predictable and there was a painful lack of tension. Way too much time spent on unnecessary dialogue, it just felt off.

If there'd been some originality in the plot it might have been better, but as it was, nothing new in this episode at all. Boring.

[Boesman]

Yeah I agree not the best episode kind of reminded me of a game I played with almost the exact events, anyway I think we actually keep that cruiser for a while since they could have blown it up but didnt, however vengeance is next week so we probably lose it their

[FallenAngelII]

I don't know, I liked Common Ground and Ark but didn't care much for this episode. The pacing was slow, the plot far too predictable and there was a painful lack of tension. Way too much time spent on unnecessary dialogue, it just felt off.

If there'd been some originality in the plot it might have been better, but as it was, nothing new in this episode at all. Boring.

Pretty much everything was obvious to me except the fact of why she was there. Everything else was obvious.

And yeah, lack of tension. We knew they wouldn't all die. And we knew that once those red-shirt scientists were dead, no one else would die unless the Wraith queen randomly broke into the command room and fed on some randoms before getting shot.

[Ruined_puzzle]

Goof #3: Since when does Elizabeth ever call Rodney by McKay?

Seems that new writers seem to forget that they've known each other for 3 years and maybe more regarding Elizabeth and Rodney. I think this also happened in The Ark between Elizabeth and John.

[IWantToBelieve]

Yeah, when they sent the two scientists off it was like 'hello predictable red shirt'...and I had the same thought when Teyla downed Ronon. The queen might have let him live with the idea of eating him later but it might have lead to more realism to have her get ready to kill (ie aiming) and at least getting interrupted, same thing with Teyla at the end.

They wasted a wraith queen opportunity. She should've made tracks with shep, and then gone into a two parter or something...anything that would've been an unexpected twist. There was way too much time spent on telling Teyla 'this isn't your fault, no, you can't handle doing it again, blah blah blah'.

I think for the forcefield it has to do with force...running into it slams you back with the same degree of force, so just poking it won't do much.

Yet again TPTB portray the wraith as incredibly stupid. If she is such a bad ass, she would've disarmed it while holding Sheppard hostage to prevent a cross and you can't tell me she wouldn't have been able to consider it was a trap.

Echoes was an episode written with imagination. This was canned ABC plot.

[Anjirika]

I can ALMOST forgive no mention of Carson in Submersion, but

Spoiler:

if there's no mention of Carson in Vengeance (what is supposed to be another Michael episode), then I will be seriously dissapointed with this show. Because that's just not believable.

I know, I mean the first episode after Daniel acended they mentioned him.....so I hope that TPTB were not completly stupid and don't mention our dear Carson at all...

[Anjirika]

As for the episode itself...well, I liked it. It wasn't an OMG WAITING WITH BAITED BREATH episode but it was still a good episode. I didn't like how they didn't mention Carson, especially with Teyla contacting the wraith, and I thought that their solution was a rip off from their solution in the return and I didn' t like how Elizabeth only called John Colonel and he only called her Elizabeth once...*sigh*... other than that- I give it a 7/10. Not bad, but not the best either.

[FallenAngelII]

Seems that new writers seem to forget that they've known each other for 3 years and maybe more regarding Elizabeth and Rodney. I think this also happened in The Ark between Elizabeth and John.

Elizabeth also called John "Sheppard" in this episode. Though she's called John "Sheppard" much more often than she calls Rodney "McKay" (in fact, I can't remember a single episode where she calls him "McKay").

I always assumed that she tried to keep John at a much more professional level while they were on missions, but she hasn't called him "Sheppard" for quite some time 'til "The Ark" either.

What are they, amnesiac? And don't they ever get people to proof-read their scripts?

About he whole "This just in: Teyla tricks Wraith Queen"-thing: I thought it was incredibly cheap. For one thing, it was predictable. Incredibly so.

For another, what's up with Teyla all of a sudden? She's supposedly weak, she let herself be overtaken twice when she knew she was wandering into a Wraith mind (apparentely that third time on whatever planet Ellia lived on taught her tons) yet she's able to trick a Wraith Queen (who's supposedly much stronger than her goons), a Queen who was able to force John to:
* Drop his gun
* Kneel
* Not speak
* Probably fly him out of there

How did she plant that false memory inside herself, anyway? Think really hard about it?

[caty]

This again...

Can we please stop bashing writers in the episode threads? *shakes head*

These few posts have reminded me as to why I don't like the ep threads at all.. Negativity much? Anyway, I won't waste my time and just say...


The episode rocked! Thanks, Ken for giving us another masterpiece of yours!!!!

Great tension, great lines, great portrayal of the queen!

[Rudeljaeger]

Goof #2: Why would a Wraith Queen be leading a great fleet attacking Atlantis from a Wraith cruiser?!

Today during combat the high-ranking officers are in fast APCs and not in big tanks. And dont forget the biggest target will alway draw the largest amount of the enemies attention.

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

Can't wait to watch it, glad to see that the Wraith return at last, made me think for a moment that we won't see them again this season.

[rarocks24]

Am I going to be the first one to say this is essentially a redux of an earlier episode?

There's a very simple solution, it was planned all along. That conversation actually happened, prior to Sheppard going over to the ship. The trap may have been set before. Too bad we didn't use a Wraith stunner instead. that would have been nice. Take her to some cozy little cell on Earth, dope her up, and interrogate her all night long.

As to why she bought into it so quickly, she was ecstatic, happy. Bouncing at the bit. She wanted the hell off there...a very good reason for skipping the chance for a meal.

@FallenAngelII: To explain the ship, there's no evidence to the contrary that all queens are on hive ships. There's also the fact that maybe her hive ship was destroyed earlier in the war? There are other reasons for it, perhaps she liked the captain of the cruiser? Or she was perhaps safer on a cruiser than on a hive ship...which is bigger, has a lot more weaponfire, and would just happen to be the first targets in any war.

I felt this episode was "The Defiant One" redux, which it basically was.

[Anjirika]

Something I've got to add- that one interaction between Elizabeth and John when she said

Elizabeth: Well, we have a lot of exploring to do.
John: We?
Elizabeth: Until Rodney delivers the preliminary status report, I'm all yours. Put me to work, colonel.
John: All right let's make up some time, break into teams, Ronon you're with Teyla, Elizabeth, you're with me, or... I'm with you, anyway you wanna put it.
Elizabeth: Either way or either way.

I mean, I don't like how she called him colonel- but it was a great flirting scene and being a Sparky shipper, I loved it- and it made the entire episode for me.

[FallenAngelII]

This again...

Can we please stop bashing writers in the episode threads? *shakes head*

These few posts have reminded me as to why I don't like the ep threads at all.. Negativity much? Anyway, I won't waste my time and just say...


The episode rocked! Thanks, Ken for giving us another masterpiece of yours!!!!

Great tension, great lines, great portrayal of the queen!

So it's OK to claim the writers are the best thing since sliced bread, but if we say anything negative about them, then we're bashers?

Especially when we're pointing out flaws that were easily spotted by viewers after only one viewing?

To explain the ship, there's no evidence to the contrary that all queens are on hive ships. There's also the fact that maybe her hive ship was destroyed earlier in the war? There are other reasons for it, perhaps she liked the captain of the cruiser? Or she was perhaps safer on a cruiser than on a hive ship...which is bigger, has a lot more weaponfire, and would just happen to be the first targets in any war.

I felt this episode was "The Defiant One" redux, which it basically was.

Queens... they lead an entire army. From their Hives. The Wraith culture is based on insect culture.

She was leading the strike. Why would they elect a Queen who'd already lost her hive ship leader of the first strike on Atlantis?! Unless we're, of course, once more dumbing them down.

The whole "Maybe it's safer on cruisers"-argument I can buy, though.

But then the Wraith don't seem to have to feed that often if a cruiser could fit enough people to sustain a Wraith (and the last ones she feeds on had to have been sustained as well) for 10,000 years.

By the way, even if the conversation in Teyla's mind really did happen earlier, I doubt they planned the entire thing. Why? Because Teyla and Elizabeth had a little chat where Elizabeth told Teyla to not try the whole "I'll-might-show-you-mine-if-you-show-me-yours"-thing in a hallway out of earshot from where the Queen was being held.

What, they wanted to make the Queen think Teyla was going against Elizabeth's wishes but they do it down the hall where she might not actually hear them?

[IWantToBelieve]

Yes, I agree. It's not bashing to discuss the flaws you see in an episode. I understand the frustration in seeing an episode you enjoy trashed, and I know there's negativity in GW a lot lately, but there's a source for it. It's a symptom.

I don't feel this was a well written episode. I like Ken, I liked CG a great deal. I also enjoyed Ark, although I felt it too was missing an edge but overall my love for the details was more than my issues with the lack of tension. But this episode is 'been there, done that'...there just wasn't anything new.

I like how rarocks put it. This was essentially The Defiant One, redux, complete with the two red shirt scientists. Frustrating.