Submersion (318)

[the old briar pipe]

Liked it!

Rodney's trouble with names, John referencing Abyss, Ronon shooting out the window, Teyla kicking his butt, Dr. Coleman reappearing (yes, it's the little things), Elizabeth actually being on-screen. Yay!

Also, I think there was a thread somewhere about finding Ancient factories, and we did almost exactly that, only it was more like an oil refinery. But I'll take it.

The set was cool and dark, but for some odd reason the music didn't work for me, though the timing of the action itself (not pacing, but punchline-style timing) was spot on. This is, in fact, the first ep in ages that I haven't felt was as strongly enhanced by the music as it should have been. Maybe I was expecting the score for Abyss or Close Encounters, and that's too much to hope from 42 minutes of tv.

And of course the end, with Ronon lying face-down on the bed, John settling in adorkably, and Teyla balling up her jacket with intent, spoke to the three of them perfectly. It's sad that this season has emphasized how much Rodney is outside his team in many ways, but I love the closeness these three share.

I'm actually confused about some of the episode, which is odd, because I called all the plot points, just not the ending.

Originally I had expected Teyla to be acting indepedently when she used the false memory and that McKay and Sheppard would either be surprised or have been radioed ahead when Teyla recovered. This, in my opinion, would have been far more interesting for her character anyway.

Then, as the episode ended, it looked like it was planned. However, if it were planned, something about the timing doesn't add up. For starters, when McKay and Sheppard arrive the first time, there are just under 30 minutes left on the self-destruct. Forgive me if my math is too zealous, but just under 1 kilometre would be about .6 of a mile. Upon arriving, John has to pack the generator into his suit and then travel back for another .6 of a mile. We're looking at at least fifteen minutes for Sheppard to merely travel back and forth from the cruiser under normal walking conditions, though I'd estimate much longer because he is at the bottom of the ocean, which would make movement incredibly difficult. Even if McKay came up with the idea right after the just under 30 minute clock stopped, the timing simply does not work.

Here's my take:

Teyla was acting independently. She realized she was losing, or that she couldn't win, and mentally prepared herself before engaging the Wraith again. She fed the Queen false information, was tossed aside, and after she recovered, radioed Elizabeth to let her know what had happened. John and Rodney are duly informed there's a Wraith on the way, and they come up with Plan B on the fly, with Rodney insisting Shep has to be bait. The memory was, in fact, false. The scene with Teyla, Shep, and Elizabeth never happened.

Of course, this doesn't explain why Ronon let Teyla hang out alone with the Wraith, but I can't see Elizabeth letting Teyla risk herself that way if she was actually in on the plan from the beginning. Ronon being too trusting is more in character. Plus, Rodney genuinely tried to shut down the self-destruct, and they only realized they had to have a command code after he and John arrived on the ship.

[FallenAngelII]

Yes, Teyla was acting indepentely, the whole conversation she had with Elizabeth before doing her thing with the Queen shows that. It wasn't just a ruse because they were standing all the way out in the hallway (and not close to the door to the room where the Queen was being kept).

What, they were trying to trick the Queen into "overhearing" when she's heavily sedated and in another room down the hall?

[Linzi]

Can someone explain to me what Weir's purpose on the mission was? Too bad if the jumper breaks down and kills Atlantis' entire senior command staff in one go... No doubt Beckett would have been there too, if he hadn't of departed in Sunday.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Weir, but these episodes prove to me the problems they're having with Weir as a main character in writing the episodes the way they are.

I agree, and though I understand the desire to have Weir present in the episode, it just didn't make sense here. I kept wondering who was in charge back on Atlantis, and as you say, what a shame if they'd all been killed and Atlantis been left with none of its leadership!!! With Sheppard, McKay, the rest of the team AND Radek there, it just was very - strange. I don't think Weir served any purpose here at all, and though I do understand the need to include the character in stories, perhaps if her linguistic skills had been needed it would've made more sense? Then again, I still think Sheppard et al would've scouted first, made sure it was safe and then brought Weir down to the base. But, that's a small gripe on my part really.
A poster on the thead I frequent made a very valid comment which got me thinking. The end of the episode, where a jolly Weir and McKay headed off to learn some more about the drilling platform was a little peculiar. They'd lost two scientists, and surely everyone would've been a little more subdued, or at least looked a bit sorry about it all.

[Chailyn]

I like that they're exploring the planet more, including the ocean. I also liked that Teyla kicked butt (Ronon's anyway) and had something to do. RL did a good job with her lines. I think Teyla might be growing on me.

I thought the middle and end were a bit slow though, and, as others have mentioned, the plot was fairly predictable. I did like the opening. I also don't think Weir felt right in this episode. The team really didn't need her guiding them as the situation was pretty obvious.

The queen was also kind of disappointing. I know that she's old, but she was fairly weak. They kept going on and on about how powerful she was, but Teyla was able to trick her. Teyla has very little Wraith DNA and very little experience with their psychic powers, yet she handled a queen. I guess I want them to make the Wraith more powerful again and less easily defeated. They were a true force in S1. I like the Wraith as Atlantis's main baddies, but they need some real teeth. We shouldn't be able to constantly run all over them. But, this is more of a problem with the Atlantis Universe than with the writer, imo. I can't fault him for this.

All that said, it was okay for a filler. I was hoping to see a swimming Wraith though. 6/10

Spoiler:

Oh, and I wanted a mention of Carson. It felt as if this was filmed before "Sunday". If I'm going to buy that Carson died in a filler episode because "that's life" and "life is random" and "it's realistic", then I expect them to keep with the realism. People don't get over a death so easily. That's life too. Be realistic, but don't hit the reset button when you can't follow through.

[Chailyn]

The end of the episode, where a jolly Weir and McKay headed off to learn some more about the drilling platform was a little peculiar. They'd lost two scientists, and surely everyone would've been a little more subdued, or at least looked a bit sorry about it all.

If they can lose

Spoiler:

Carson

and not even mention it, why would two red shirts be any different? That's the problem with trying to add realism and drama into a story--you have to actually follow it through.

[Ouroboros]

Here's a good question I just thought of. Why didn't the queen feed on Teyla after getting the false information? Whoever put her in that position had to have expected that, that's what Wraith do.

Reading that "tossed aside" comment above made me think of this. What reason was there for the queen to toss Teyla aside and not feed on her? I'll bet it's the same reason she didn't just blast or stomp Ronon's head into chunky salsa after she'd KOed him with her new Teyla puppet.

See I keep telling you people that the Wraith, for all their drooling and hissing, are actually pretty generous, kind and humanitarian souls.

[localfocus]

A poster on the thead I frequent made a very valid comment which got me thinking. The end of the episode, where a jolly Weir and McKay headed off to learn some more about the drilling platform was a little peculiar. They'd lost two scientists, and surely everyone would've been a little more subdued, or at least looked a bit sorry about it all.

Hmm, I didn't notice that. There are some odd bits of characterization here isn't there.

Something I've been thinking about. SGA is Ken's first job writing live action. When he wrote Common Ground, he submitted it as a freelancer. Therefore he had no deadlines and could work unimpeded without thinking about all the production details and overriding story arc. He could concentrate just on the story. So while Brad polished it, the underlying core of the story was already written before he was ever employed at Bridge. Working in a collaborative environment with constant deadlines is completely different.

I think what we may be seeing are beginner problems. He has great ideas and can construct a story but needs practice. Particularly with characterization (he has some characters ie Sheppard down well but other characters like Rodney are very off), starting a story (having your characters stumble in and start things willy nilly isn't the best technique, though neither the Ark or Submersion was as bad as The Long Goodbye. Instead of focusing on the characters limits, he has them make ill thought out mistakes, and there are better ways of getting our folks in trouble) And balancing character and plot. His stories are well constructed, but beyond the basic idea, predictable in development. Hopefully he can improve those things with time.

[PG15]

^EDIT: Ouroboros

I guess it took time needed to get to the cruiser to keep it from blowing up. She only had 30 minutes, after all.

[Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia]

Hmmm. Not quite sure what to make of this episode. Plot and plot points are all thoroughly recycled, but the dialoue at many points is rather sharp, in spite of the episode being weak overall.

Lots of things were predictable. "Oh noes! We don't catch the Wraith on the life signs scan at first!" "Oh noes! Anyone in a secluded area who turns around will come face-to-face with a Wraith!" Shepphard: "What the hell is going on here?" (I'm pretty sure by now that it's just in his contract to say that every episode or something.) Weir: "Rodney, I want a status report." You know, because us stupid viewers need it hand-delivered to us.

I was amazed at the sheer stupidity of some of the characters, though. No one suspected that if Wraith are really all that smart as they'd need to be to get where they are, that they'd be able to take over people's minds given the chance. Wow. Pathetic. "How the hell could the queen have gotten here?" "I dunno, maybe she swam!" There are lots more plausible explanations, I'm sure.

I'll rant more later.

[FallenAngelII]

I agree, and though I understand the desire to have Weir present in the episode, it just didn't make sense here. I kept wondering who was in charge back on Atlantis, and as you say, what a shame if they'd all been killed and Atlantis been left with none of its leadership!!! With Sheppard, McKay, the rest of the team AND Radek there, it just was very - strange. I don't think Weir served any purpose here at all, and though I do understand the need to include the character in stories, perhaps if her linguistic skills had been needed it would've made more sense? Then again, I still think Sheppard et al would've scouted first, made sure it was safe and then brought Weir down to the base. But, that's a small gripe on my part really.
A poster on the thead I frequent made a very valid comment which got me thinking. The end of the episode, where a jolly Weir and McKay headed off to learn some more about the drilling platform was a little peculiar. They'd lost two scientists, and surely everyone would've been a little more subdued, or at least looked a bit sorry about it all.

Good point. With Carson gone, if they lost Elizabeth, John, Rodney and Radek, they'd all be sitting ducks. What a stupid decision to have all of them go down there together.

[Alipeeps]

Wasn't it established in 38 minutes that the iratus bug hated salt water? And since the wraith are very similar to the iratus bug that they would have this same hatred of salt water?

So in that case how could a Wraith Hive Queen SWIM through an ocean????

It has never been stated that the Wraith hate salt water - that's pure conjecture on the part of fans. Yes, the iratus bugs hate salt water and yes, the wraith evolved from the iratus bug... it doesn't necessarily follow that they still share all the original traits of the bug. The salt water reaction is a primitive defensive response from the bug - the wraith are rather more sophisticated than that.

The queen was also kind of disappointing. I know that she's old, but she was fairly weak. They kept going on and on about how powerful she was, but Teyla was able to trick her. Teyla has very little Wraith DNA and very little experience with their psychic powers, yet she handled a queen. I guess I want them to make the Wraith more powerful again and less easily defeated. They were a true force in S1. I like the Wraith as Atlantis's main baddies, but they need some real teeth. We shouldn't be able to constantly run all over them. But, this is more of a problem with the Atlantis Universe than with the writer, imo. I can't fault him for this.

She was heavily sedated - they made that point a couple of times.

[Starxgate]

I finally got around to watching this episode. The crappy thing is this episode lead to another ship to in the end be forgotten.

[Celcool]

Good point. With Carson gone, if they lost Elizabeth, John, Rodney and Radek, they'd all be sitting ducks. What a stupid decision to have all of them go down there together.

I agree that she's too precious to lose. But it's nice to see Elizabeth being part of the team now and then, like in Epiphany and in The Return 2. I'm glad Ken let her be a part of this mission. Besides, who would have thought that the Wraith would be down there, deep in the ocean, even Rodney couldn't believe it could be true, we could say that they didn't think this particular mission to be as dangerous, so they let Elizabeth accompany them.

[Haliyah]

This was a good episode. A little...unusual, but rather intriguing.

Spoiler:

I like how it possibly leads into the Atlantis team having the neccessary power to sink the city, raise the shields at full power, and boot up the stardrive in First Strike. There's probably a little-used ZPM in the geothermal mining platform somewhere, or a few spares...

I liked how Teyla got a good role in this episode, and the fact that Weir was there at all both surprised and pleased me. It was also interesting that they used someone other than Andee Frizzell for the Wraith Queen.

What I didn't like was that there was no mention of Carson. It's the episode after his death. You'd think that the team would still be talking about him, wishing that he were there, feeling guilty, etc. I suppose that they have to keep focussed on their missions rather than their raw emotions, but for the writers to off such a beloved character so permanently and then not speak of him...it feels...cold. Far to cold for someone as warm as Carson.

[Linzi]

Here's a good question I just thought of. Why didn't the queen feed on Teyla after getting the false information? Whoever put her in that position had to have expected that, that's what Wraith do.

Reading that "tossed aside" comment above made me think of this. What reason was there for the queen to toss Teyla aside and not feed on her? I'll bet it's the same reason she didn't just blast or stomp Ronon's head into chunky salsa after she'd KOed him with her new Teyla puppet.

See I keep telling you people that the Wraith, for all their drooling and hissing, are actually pretty generous, kind and humanitarian souls.

I must admit I thought about that too, and wondered if she was full? She'd just had two nice large meals and maybe she didn't need to feed on anything more? That's the only thing I could come up with. We don't know how often the Wraith need to feed, but it seems to me they don't actually need to eat all that often, unless they're injured. I could be wrong there though.