The Ark (316)

[Alipeeps]

Okay, just got done watching and I have to post some thoughts before I go back and read everyone else's opinions!

First of all - I loved this ep. Thoroughly enjoyed it. It was a good and proper sci-fi, spaceship, rockets and artifical gravity adventure story and it was great! I loved the sci-fi and technical aspects of the story and I adored the excellent human relationships shown and the banter and the dialogue.

It was a nice change to see the team mixed up a bit - Sheppard with Ronon instead of McKay for example. Lovely to see some interaction and banter between those two - and we still got the McKay snark and banter etc without the whole show having to be the "Rodney and John" hour, as some people have criticised of late. Nice to see Teyla have some decent dialogue and real role to play in the story. Great to see Sheppard get to be a pilot and do his derring-do bit and lovely to see good use of Lorne too.

The guest actors were excellent and really sold their parts and made you care about their people and their history.

I absolutely adored the ending - I'm sure those who ship will enjoy a happy Sheyla moment there but on a purely team friendship level it was also wonderful and developed into some of that great banter that shows how close the team are.. also ties back nicely to Sheppard's conversation with Teyla in Sateda about how

Spoiler:

he would do anything for any one of his team.. and also again shows us that he prefers not to verbalise such things and as soon as the conversation looked like getting serious he turned it into a joke...

lovely characterisation.

I loved McKay doom and gloom prognosis - yet all the while he was still working to find them a way out of it. Loved also the again wonderful team moments as McKay tried to tell Sheppard not to do what he was planning. Just lovely little moments there that really build on the bond between these people.

All in all, a fab episode of a science fiction show - we had a sci-fi plot set in space, we had danger, we had drama, we had humour and snark. A really good self-contained episode of SGA.

[LadyBozi]

I found the episode somewhat boring in the beginning and ..ok..most of the time, sorry, until the ending when they started talking about HOW the people died and what really happend. I found that very interesting. It was okay.
Loved that Ronon is claustrophobic, gave him a normal weakness.
Liked the ending scene in between Sheppard and Teyla. Finally the whole ... "Teyla your adopted but I like you just as much, because were family" was Put to rest. lol. Kinda like Sateda opened that up and This epsiode Closed it.

[Willow'sCat]

<> A backstage pass into my brain to see the genesis of a stargate: Atlantis ep...from premise to screen.

LOL You are a brave man.

Now I like this one, everyone was in character for a change *cough* and you know what? Even the annoying aspects of McKay were normal rather then the OTT responses we often see from him.

I did love that Rodney asked Sheppard if he had anything to say before the end and Sheppard *being Sheppard* said no. Also liked that they mixed up the "coupling" of the characters, it was nice to see Sheppard with Dex, and Teyla with someone else; I think she suffers when placed with either Ronon or John, she never gets a word in, which is really odd as they are the two least verbal of the whole dam show normally. But separating everyone enable us to get a small glimpse into their personalities, or just the way they deal with impending death... [sarcasm]John really has to get over his panic attacks! [/sarcasm]

The story, the structure and the general feel were scifi in the old school way. Seen this a million times, I particularly loved Doctor Who's take on it and even though I have seen this a million times (give or take a few thousand) I still enjoyed seeing this set up again. A few things were annoying; I agree the solution was not well thought out, or explained, I still think it was relying more on luck, I thought maybe it was going to be revealed at one stage that indeed John is now an ascended Ancient and can't actually die

The alternative would have been spending the rest of his life wondering if he could have saved Teyla had he tried. Sheppard never gives up on his team. period. Even if it kills him.

I am glad everyone else thought he was insane; it is all fine and dandy to have a "leave no man *cough* sorry, no one behind" mentality but when you endanger yourself and/or the rest of your TEAM to save that "one" it does become arrogant, and not to mention from a purely plot driven point of view predictable. I understand Sheppard is Jack but we know what Jack's motivations were, we know his past, we know he demons with Sheppard not so much... this makes Sheppard come off as highly arrogant IMHO. And if he is the sort of person who wonders about the "what ifs" maybe he shouldn't have become a pilot in the USAF. It seems to me that would have held a lot of "what ifs" in anyone's life. And don't they do Psych tests how did he pass? Also IMHO he left McKay behind...(Runner) don't tell me he doesn't leave people behind!!!!

Well... anyway in the end I would give this a place in the not sucky episodes of season 3, it isn't as great as M&MM but it certainly was better then the "I" eps and at least I didn't fall asleep now that is saying something since it was 1am by the time I got to watch this.

leaving Gateworld mostly McKay neutral or anti.

LOL! I don't agree with that. And since it is completely off topic...that is all I will say on the matter in here.

[Alipeeps]

Okay then, my thoughts and responses on various issues raised in the thread..

I found it extremely problematic in this episode that McKay and Sheppard reiterated several times that there was no possible way that the survivors of that civilization could be saved yet in several seconds they could work out a solution once Teyla got sucked in. Are our heroes declining in bravery and moral standards as every season passes? What was the issue here? Were they just too damn lazy? Do they just not care? "Uh, I save a civilization every week, can't be bothered this week".

I thought this showed the characters up badly. I also thought the deus ex machina that resulted in Sheppard's shuttle just emerging from the flames like a phoenix to be particularly weak. It was just pure corny fluke.

Also, Ronon seems to become more of a cartoon character every week. I could tell from the start of that scene before it was even said his arm was dislocated that he was going to pop his own arm back in. I should not be able to do that but that's how predictably cartoonish he's become.

Not the worst effort at an episode by any means but it contained a few major problems it and also it wasn't that original.

I know Ken covered this but my immediate understanding from watching the ep was that Sheppard was risking his life for just the slimmest chance of saving Teyla. Whilst he would not have risked almost certain death for the people in storage, he would take that chance for his friend and risk dying in her place - because that's who Sheppard is. As he said to Teyla in Sateda

Spoiler:

"I'd do any thing for any one of you. If I had to give my life, like Ronon did, I would."

As for Ronon.. yeah, whilst it might have been a tad obvious that Ronon would put his own shoulder back into place..,. ya gotta admit it is SO perfectly in character for him! And I loved it for that reason alone... and also for Sheppard's disbelieving - and slightly squicked - reaction!

Hi all,

Once a few more viewers have had a chance to check out the ep, I'll be by to discuss the story from a writer's POV. A backstage pass into my brain to see the genesis of a stargate: Atlantis ep...from premise to screen.

Later,
Ken C

Hah. I've peeked at your blog, Your brain is a strange and scary place..

I'll address this one, since it makes a good point:

In my head (and, I feel, in my script as well) it was intended that this situation the team was in was an impossible one. With no fuel in the shuttle, it was absolutely impossible to save the civilization in the wraith device without, at the very least sacrificing the pilot of the shuttle -- and even then it was very unlikely the device would survive the impact. It was that simple. One member of this new race doomed the rest of his people, and we couldn't do a damn thing about it.

[snipped for length]

Anayway, this is how I saw it...and tried to write it...

Ken C

Thanks for explaining that. As I said above, i actually kinda got that he was taking a desperate chance in the hope of saving Teyla - it perhaps wasn't made crystal clear just how slim his chances of survival were but I got that that was the essence of his decision - he was prepared to give up his life for a chance at saving his friend.

Interesting to read the explanation of how the malfunction of the separation system actually saved him. Stuff like that is cool to know... the ep works fine without that more detailed knowledge but it adds a layer of interest to have that explained here.

Actually when you put it like that it clears some things up me. I can see now why you went for the fluke. What you're essentially saying is Sheppard not getting realeased when he wanted saved him and the civilization by accident and otherwise there was 0% chance of survival. I didn't quite get that by watching it but I get it now. But does it make all that much sense that Sheppard went on a certain suicide mission without any idea to save Teyla? I'm all for team comaraderie but is that not a bit of a stretch? It's almost like dying for dying's sake.

But again, that is who Sheppard is. He said as much to Teyla in Sateda. It's not that he wants to die but if he could save one of his friends by giving up his own life... he'd do it.

The alternative would have been spending the rest of his life wondering if he could have saved Teyla had he tried. Sheppard never gives up on his team. period. Even if it kills him.

Indeed.

I know I'm probably going to get some grunts for this, but as much as I love team episodes, why does it always have to imply so little Weir? (rhetoric question here), she's my favorite character, so having so many Weir-lite episodes makes me lose interest. That's only one of the many things that made this episode just okay-ish, aside from how it just dragged on and on, and I didn't feel any sense of urgency.
It was like Sheppard went on a suicidal mission again just for the sake of having him going into a death situation again.
And I agree with whoever said that it's not like anyone thinks that Sheppard (or any member of the team) can die.

I kinda see your point but I guess it is a simple fact of logistics when the team are on an off-world mission. I think Weir integrates beautifully into team missions when the script allows it - Echoes was a wonderful team ep and Weir was involved in every aspect of the story and I loved it. Not every ep can be set on Atlantis though...

I wouldn't say he's uncomfortable with emotion, just that like a lot of guys, it is easier to brush things off with a joke, then to speak from the heart. What we feel and what we say are often two different things. Something to remember ladies. It's like we guys are from, say...mars...and women are from some completely different planet. For example: Venus. Hey, I should write a book.

*heee* As I said, Ken's brain = very odd place... in a good way!

The bottom line is that Weir is in charge of Atlantis. She has to maintain the day to day operations. She can't just go off on field missions because she has other responsibilities...much like General Landry on SG:1.

Having said that...Weir does indeed go on a rare field mission in Submersion - and quickly learns that perhaps it is better to stay in the warm cozy confines of Atlantis.

Oooh thanks for that little teaser. That sounds very interesting! Thanks again for taking the time to pop in here and share your thoughts and insights... and random oddness....

[Oka]

Anyone else notice this?

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8839/snickersgb1.png

How did they miss that? LOL

[The Ori]

TPTB are on crack man!

Why are they making such crap episodes!! One reason I like stargate is because that it is individual story lines and very good, but if its individual story lines and very crap like most of season 3 has been thenits starts to get boring.

Don't get me wrong I love stargate and always will even if it gets to the point where it is the worst show on TV, but I can understand why Sci-Fi cancelled SG-1.

I just hope that Atlantis doesn't go in the same direction!!

[watcher652]

I know I'm probably going to get some grunts for this, but as much as I love team episodes, why does it always have to imply so little Weir? (rhetoric question here), she's my favorite character, so having so many Weir-lite episodes makes me lose interest.

I have to say that this particular episode should have been light on Weir. Her forte is diplomacy and languages. Neither skill was needed in this episode. Now in episodes where she should be involved, say like The Game, she's written poorly and is about as good a diplomat as Sheppard and McKay.

I'm just grateful that Teyla got some lines.

[langdonboom]

You can tell the producers thought this episode was lacking in the gripping department because they used the tired old flash-forward-to-brink-of-jeapordy and then go "eight hours back" to start the story.

Its a cheap way to give the boring scenes inbetween this and when we get back to it a kind of weight because you know something bad is going to eventually happen.

But we ALWAYS know this in episodic television, and here it just seems like a last-minute edit room patch on a script that just didn't have it (I agree its a rehash of the 'save the remnants of the civilization' we've seen before).

I'm not ready to give up on SGA yet though.

[SGAFan]

! D'oh!

[Willow'sCat]

You can tell the producers thought this episode was lacking in the gripping department because they used the tired old flash-forward-to-brink-of-jeapordy and then go "eight hours back" to start the story.

LOL, that always makes want to ff and see what happens next but since it was the big dam hero of the show, I knew all would end well....

This is all part of the revival on SGA of 1970s style TV. *too harsh*

[Luz]

I kinda see your point but I guess it is a simple fact of logistics when the team are on an off-world mission. I think Weir integrates beautifully into team missions when the script allows it - Echoes was a wonderful team ep and Weir was involved in every aspect of the story and I loved it. Not every ep can be set on Atlantis though...

Yeah, I understand this, and as I said it was just a gripe I had with this episode. I know the reasons for her absence, just imagine having to put up with many *many* episodes without much Sheppard in a season (which is what you have to put up with if you're a fan of either Weir or Teyla) it gets tiring.
The episode had many thinks that I like, good team moments, McShep, Ronon being all manly and hot, Sheppard looking all hot and being all heroic, however it just didn't grab me, and I can't point what was lacking, maybe it was that I didn't feel any sense of urgency, and yeah, I knew Sheppard thought he wasn't going to make it, but it wasn't like in the Siege 2 with all the angst, even if I knew he wasn't going to die (because come on! like they're going to kill him) there was a certain sadness, and the characters reacted accordingly, here it was like "oh, Sheppard is going to get himself killed yet again, yeah right! ".

[HyperCaz]

Anyone else notice this?

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8839/snickersgb1.png

How did they miss that? LOL

HAHAHA!!! What's the time stamp on that?

[Oka]

HAHAHA!!! What's the time stamp on that?

15:22

[Pegasus_SGA]

TPTB are on crack man!

Why are they making such crap episodes!! One reason I like stargate is because that it is individual story lines and very good, but if its individual story lines and very crap like most of season 3 has been thenits starts to get boring.

Don't get me wrong I love stargate and always will even if it gets to the point where it is the worst show on TV, but I can understand why Sci-Fi cancelled SG-1.

I just hope that Atlantis doesn't go in the same direction!!

What was it about the ep...or eps that you found crap? If you like the individual storylines, what was it about the ep you didn't like? Just curious...

[HyperCaz]

15:22

thanks ok so Snickers and water bottle...what's that blue thing?