The Ark (316)

[ken_is_here]

Actually when you put it like that it clears some things up me. I can see now why you went for the fluke. What you're essentially saying is Sheppard not getting realeased when he wanted saved him and the civilization by accident and otherwise there was 0% chance of survival. I didn't quite get that by watching it but I get it now. But does it make all that much sense that Sheppard went on a certain suicide mission without any idea to save Teyla? I'm all for team comaraderie but is that not a bit of a stretch? It's almost like dying for dying's sake.

The alternative would have been spending the rest of his life wondering if he could have saved Teyla had he tried. Sheppard never gives up on his team. period. Even if it kills him.

[FoolishPleasure]

No offence to Ken C. or anyone else.
If an episode requires a rather lengthy addendum from a writer to explain the writing, isn't the episode then lacking in some area? As said above it's just not right.

I was just going to post the same thing! Hey, if an episode doesn't go over, let's just have a writer come in and explain the situation to the folks and then they will understand everything that was supposed to happen that didn't come out in the script. *LOL*

[ken_is_here]

That makes sense.. There's just one point that isn't clear to me (and maybe I am being a blonde, you never know )

You said that Sheppard expected to die from the start and that his original plan was that he would get the shuttle free from the station and then let it glide to the planet for a crah landing.. But wouldn't he have the same chance surviving this crash landing than the people in the device did? Why is this neccessarily a suicide mission?

Not getting free of the station would have destroyed the shuttle and killed everyone. The way it actually happened saved them all. I just don't really get the whole suicide mission part

Well I figure a large metal container would have a better chance at surviving a crash than a soft pink fleshy dude.

The only way to get free of the station (it was thought) was for Sheppard to release the shuttle from the mooring manually (from the cockpit) and hope that it "fell" threw the damaged outer doors rather than bouncing off the inner walls and shattering (there was no anti-grav at that point). This was a 100-1 shot. Sheppard was going for the long odds. And failed - because he couldn't release the shuttle as planned. Oops.

What he didn't plan on was the fact that once the moon hit the atmosphere, it burned up quickly, allowing the contents (the shuttle) to fly free of the wreckage. From there, all he had to do was try to keep the shuttle level upon landing to minimize the impact. Which he did.

Also...you are blond.

[caty]

Well I figure a large metal container would have a better chance at surviving a crash than a soft pink fleshy dude.

The only way to get free of the station (it was thought) was for Sheppard to release the shuttle from the mooring manually (from the cockpit) and hope that it "fell" threw the damaged outer doors rather than bouncing off the inner walls and shattering (there was no anti-grav at that point). This was a 100-1 shot. Sheppard was going for the long odds. And failed - because he couldn't release the shuttle as planned. Oops.

What he didn't plan on was the fact that once the moon hit the atmosphere, it burned up quickly, allowing the contents (the shuttle) to fly free of the wreckage. From there, all he had to do was try to keep the shuttle level upon landing to minimize the impact. Which he did.

Also...you are blond.

Yes I am, and that's an excuse for asking stupid questions sometimes. It's always there when I need it
I love being blond

Honestly, I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.. And thanks for calling Shep a "soft pink fleshy dude", loved that

[ken_is_here]

Ya but crashing a at speed faster than a flying 747...no. And still having power systems intact to bring back 1000 people. Sorry can't sell me on that.

Keep in mind this was a shuttle, not a plane. A shuttle designed to slow down when it hits the atmosphere, and glide to Earth on air streams (as set up by Sheppards comment that it had a "lifting body" design similar to old Nasa shuttles.) This is what it was designed to do. It wouldn't be a very effective re-entry shuttle if it slammed to earth like a crashing plane.

Ken

[ken_is_here]

No offence to Ken C. or anyone else.
If an episode requires a rather lengthy addendum from a writer to explain the writing, isn't the episode then lacking in some area? As said above it's just not right.

Absolutely. If you didn't take away from the episode what I was trying to get across, then the fault lies with me, not you.

[Linzi]

Well I figure a large metal container would have a better chance at surviving a crash than a soft pink fleshy dude.

The only way to get free of the station (it was thought) was for Sheppard to release the shuttle from the mooring manually (from the cockpit) and hope that it "fell" threw the damaged outer doors rather than bouncing off the inner walls and shattering (there was no anti-grav at that point). This was a 100-1 shot. Sheppard was going for the long odds. And failed - because he couldn't release the shuttle as planned. Oops.

What he didn't plan on was the fact that once the moon hit the atmosphere, it burned up quickly, allowing the contents (the shuttle) to fly free of the wreckage. From there, all he had to do was try to keep the shuttle level upon landing to minimize the impact. Which he did.

Also...you are blond.

I'm blonde too!
I'm glad you've come to chat to us here about the writing, because I think it's fascinating to hear the writers thoughts.

[Linzi]

Absolutely. If you didn't take away from the episode what I was trying to get across, then the fault lies with me, not you.

Well, I suppose it lies with the individual, because I understood what you meant, and I loved the episode. Thank goodness we're all different.

[watcher652]

Well I figure a large metal container would have a better chance at surviving a crash than a soft pink fleshy dude.

The only way to get free of the station (it was thought) was for Sheppard to release the shuttle from the mooring manually (from the cockpit) and hope that it "fell" threw the damaged outer doors rather than bouncing off the inner walls and shattering (there was no anti-grav at that point). This was a 100-1 shot. Sheppard was going for the long odds. And failed - because he couldn't release the shuttle as planned. Oops.

What he didn't plan on was the fact that once the moon hit the atmosphere, it burned up quickly, allowing the contents (the shuttle) to fly free of the wreckage. From there, all he had to do was try to keep the shuttle level upon landing to minimize the impact. Which he did.

Ok, that's way more explanation than I got from the episode. I know you have to walk a fine line between hitting us over the head with an obvious explanation and letting us figure it out, but think this time we really needed somebody, like a pilot or an astrophysicist, to explain that to us.

I was really surprised that Sheppard crashed into the ground. At the rate he was going I was expecting a more cushioned landing with more sand dunes since there wasn't any snow around.

And he was still conscious at the end? I was expecting Rodney to exclaim, "You're alive?! You should be dead! Why aren't you dead?" Then some finger snapping and some back and forth between McKay, Lorne and Sheppard. Of course, it's easy to come in after the shoot with what could make it better.

I totally missed that "lifting body" statement.

[Oka]

OK episode, way better than "The Game". I didn't think the episode really started to get interesting until the end, and then it was over - it was like I was just waiting for the end to happen. The whole "last remnants of an ancient civilization almost getting wiped out storyline" didn't really grab me. The actions of the guy who lost his wife/kid pissed me off, and it felt sort of exaggerated. Of course you always knew that the Atlantis team was going to survive unscathed so the suspense wasn't really there for me.

I loved the sets though, excellent work by whoever makes them. Nice SFX too but they were sort of wasted in this episode. I usually like Rodney but he was a little TOO much over the top this episode, tone him down a little please. Sheppard saves the day as always by piloting a completely alien space shuttle, no surprise there =P I didn't like Teyla in this episode. Everything she said just felt forced and I was waiting for her to kick that old mans ass and take it gun but alas it never happened. That was the final nail in the coffin for me, Teyla has to go! I usually don't like Ronon but in this episode he was all right although he didn't have much to do.

Some funny banter, all right story line and execution, it dragged a bit and it wasn't exactly original television - though it has to be said, I liked it way more than The Game and many other episodes this season: 6.5/10.

[FoolishPleasure]

Absolutely. If you didn't take away from the episode what I was trying to get across, then the fault lies with me, not you.

In another thread you mentioned Brad doing some "polishing up" on your scripts. Let's blame him.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Just watched it and thoroughly enjoyed it

Although there were a couple of bits I wanted to skip past on the whole, I thought the setting was great, it was so nice to see a different set. Not that Atlantis isn't wonderful of course *g*.

I don't know why, but this had a different feel to it compared to other eps. It wasn't something I could put my finger on, but maybe it was the feel of it. Everyone on the team seemed to be working together to achieve a goal even though they were all seperated, it felt as if the team was together... Does that make any sense at all, lol?

The story line was original, and not like the lifeboat which is what it was compared to (in my opinion). I also liked the vibes I got off the way the team handled the situation, bit like the 3 muskateers, lol, all for one and one for all... yes I know there was 4, but that's just semantics

I really enjoyed seeing the different sections of the ship, and loved some of the character development...they've bonded *vbg* Personally this is what i've wanted to see in S3, Teyla having the opportunity to have a fair few lines and she did a great job And although i've never shipped for anyone in Atlantis, the ending was very sweet and could be construed as shippiness I'm on the fence on this, lol. I think the ending showed just how close the team has become and it was a perfect

Does the team have new uniforms? Because Sheppard looked really hot in that black top and with the man tools. *sorry having a fangirl moment* and we had whump, yeah!

I really enjoyed that Ronon is a claustrophobic, hehehe maybe he and Rondney could compare notes, lol. I also think it shows how much his character has grown since Runner. It reflects quite eloquently how much he's settled in as part of the team and feels secure enough to share his little phobias. And that's a nice side to see of him.

Loved McKay and his betting, lol, when he gets back to Earth he's going to be penniless, isn't that at least 2 1/2 months pay he's lost in a matter of weeks *g*, and it was nice that Rodney is learning the whole meaning behind not leaving his people behind *vbg*

And we got to see Beckett and Lorne and to so for me it was really enjoyable...

There's probably lots more that i've missed out, but hey, that's what repeats are for

[LoveConquers]

I'll address this one, since it makes a good point:

In my head (and, I feel, in my script as well) it was intended that this situation the team was in was an impossible one. With no fuel in the shuttle, it was absolutely impossible to save the civilization in the wraith device without, at the very least sacrificing the pilot of the shuttle -- and even then it was very unlikely the device would survive the impact. It was that simple. One member of this new race doomed the rest of his people, and we couldn't do a damn thing about it.

And then Teyla was forced into the device -- and Sheppard made a decision. He couldn't let Teyla die without at least trying to save her. But in making this decision, Sheppard assumed he would die in the attempt. It was a suicide mission from the start. He simply hoped that he would somehow be able to get the shuttle, (and the device) clear of the station before he died. The shuttle was designed for re-entry - it was a gliding shuttle so once in the atmosphere it would have a chance at surviving the crash landing -- IF Sheppard could somehow miracoulously get it free of the station.

Now here's maybe what wasn't perfectly clear in the aired version (although it was clear to me...because it was in my head all along) -- The fact that the bolts didn't blow, and the shuttle didn't come free from the mooring at first is what saved Sheppard's (and Teyla's) life. Sheppard's plan was to try release the shuttle from the mooring, and hope that gravity carried him free of the moon through the damaged airlock. More likely he would have bounced around inside until the shuttle disintegrated, and killed everyone. This is pretty much what Sheppard expected. (In my original script, I made a little more out of Sheppard saying his goodbyes to the rest of his team. He never expected to live) However...because the bolts didn't blow...Sheppard got lucky. The station hit the atmosphere, and the moon burned up, from the outside in. But the moon wasn't solid, and the hollow pocket inside acted as a buffer. So when the shuttle broke free of its mooring, without slamming into any solid walls of rock -- It simply emerged from the rubble to continue the descent it was designed for.

Yes, it was lucky...this is a situation where all the piloting skill in the world would have been useless. If we had Sheppard do the impossible, and skillfully bring the shuttle down, I would have felt that was a cheat. Too super-hero. Sheppard was human here, surviving only because of dumb luck. And all because he refused to let Teyla go without a fight.

Anayway, this is how I saw it...and tried to write it...

Ken C

Ken, thank you so much for this! I have to admit, I wasn't clear on how exactly the shuttle didn't explode as well, so that makes much more sense to me now! I did get that it was a suicide mission for John, and I love that you wrote the mentality of his character that way. And I love that you made him more human in the result as well. Well done!

If I may ask one other character question. At the end, John made light of his efforts, as we have seen him do many times when he has played the hero and risked his life for a member of his team. Is this to show that he is uncomfortable with emotion and uses humor to cover it? Sorry if this is a silly question, but I am fascinated by character motivation and am thrilled with the opportunity to be able to chat with the writer directly.

Thank you!

[Luz]

I know I'm probably going to get some grunts for this, but as much as I love team episodes, why does it always have to imply so little Weir? (rhetoric question here), she's my favorite character, so having so many Weir-lite episodes makes me lose interest. That's only one of the many things that made this episode just okay-ish, aside from how it just dragged on and on, and I didn't feel any sense of urgency.
It was like Sheppard went on a suicidal mission again just for the sake of having him going into a death situation again.
And I agree with whoever said that it's not like anyone thinks that Sheppard (or any member of the team) can die.

[ken_is_here]

Ken, thank you so much for this! I have to admit, I wasn't clear on how exactly the shuttle didn't explode as well, so that makes much more sense to me now! I did get that it was a suicide mission for John, and I love that you wrote the mentality of his character that way. And I love that you made him more human in the result as well. Well done!

If I may ask one other character question. At the end, John made light of his efforts, as we have seen him do many times when he has played the hero and risked his life for a member of his team. Is this to show that he is uncomfortable with emotion and uses humor to cover it? Sorry if this is a silly question, but I am fascinated by character motivation and am thrilled with the opportunity to be able to chat with the writer directly.

Thank you!

I wouldn't say he's uncomfortable with emotion, just that like a lot of guys, it is easier to brush things off with a joke, then to speak from the heart. What we feel and what we say are often two different things. Something to remember ladies. It's like we guys are from, say...mars...and women are from some completely different planet. For example: Venus. Hey, I should write a book.