The Ark (316)

[Night Spring]

Well, it wasn't a personal talk, and they didn't talk *to* each other, but to Heightmeyer. Course the ultimate test of a decent female characters are if two of them talk to each other about something personal that isn't about boys, family, beauty, clothes, or anything that revolves around boys or clichés. Like politics, or spirituality, leadership, music, learning, books, etc.

But that may be too much to ask.

Why not boys, family, beauty? I suspect thinking that in order to learn more about the characters, we've got to get them talking about weighty topics like politics, spirituality, etc, is one of the things holding back the development of female characters on SGA. When did John or Rodney ever talk to each other about politics, leadership, or spirituality(!)? Well, there was that one time they got into a brief tiff over the death penalty in Condemned. But we do get lots of milage out of ribbing over each other's love life and what women they find hot. Oh, and their choice of aftershave and sunscreen fragrance! So yes, let's have Teyla and Elizabeth comparing Athosian and Earth cosmetics!

[localfocus]

Well, not such weighty topics, silly is fine. It's what came off the top of my head. It's just the women get such little attention as is. It would be nice to see that they talked as women and not have the conversation revolve around men, or pleasing men. If they had more scenes, then talking boys would be cute, and normal, but that's not all women talk about. It would be nice to have a scene with no men at all present. In the flesh or as a topic of discussion. The audience won't die from too much estrogen.

[Alipeeps]

Personally I think The Ark would have been much better with blue jello instead of that Snickers. And who said they didn't like Shep's new outfit? Bite your tongue. What they needed was more light so we could see it better? And BTW, why is he the only one who gets new clothes? Does Ronon even have anything to change into, or does he get those pants by the case at the Gap?

Yes! The Shep!Outfits TM are sacrosanct and must not be denied! Let's have him in a new outfit every week! Suits me! Especially if it's black (dayum, he looks good in black! )

Ronon's a firm proponent of the deliberately casual, "not trying too hard" school of fashion thought. It ain't cool and macho to look like you're interested in clothes.. find what works and stick with it... And hey, it works!

There wasn't enough time though so things ended up feeling a bit rushed at times and Sheppard deciding to risk his life for Teyla when he WOULDN'T for 1000 people and 200 children was the definate low point. That's hardly heroic behaviour, it's quite frankly disgusting, but then again I never could stand him anyway.

Sheppard's job description does not include the requirement to lay down his life for every person/society in danger that they stumble across. He wasn't even certain that his desperate attempt to save the storage device would work. The only reason he was willing to even take such a chance was for the slim hope of saving his friend - why should be be expected to throw his life away (as that was what the chances of success amounted to) in a probably doomed attempt to save these people?

[Alipeeps]

Oh, and on Shep's shirt -- hmmm. Not a disaster, but I do think the black t-shirt suits him much better.

Well, obviously Teh Black T-Shirt of Yum rules supreme but... I'm okay with a little variety now and then....

[Elinor]

. Even more remarkably we didn't see a single square foot of "woods" or a single pine tree for the duration. That alone deserves note.

I thought it was great to have different sets to!!

[Southern Red]

Well, obviously Teh Black T-Shirt of Yum rules supreme but... I'm okay with a little variety now and then....

So have we come up with a name for the new black buttoned with sleeves rolled up shirt of yet? Oh, and going OT again. *is sorry,but this is fun* The way he rolled up the sleeves is roughly regulation. I asked my hubby the former Marine, and at least for them there are detailed instructions on how far up the sleeves can be rolled, how wide the fold, etc. Someone was wondering about that somewhere earlier. So. I know JF does it in RL. I like to think he's channeling his inner Marine. But that's just me.

[Elinor]

So. I know JF does it in RL. I like to think he's channeling his inner Marine. But that's just me.

LOL!

So have we come up with a name for the new black buttoned with sleeves rolled up shirt of yet?

How about The Bodacious Black Shirt of Rolled Up Sleevy Goodness!?!

You know, the more I watch 'The Ark' the more I enjoy it. The writers have really done a great job on the friendships in the team this season.

[Linzi]

Can you imagine trying to say that after a couple of glasses of champers, Eli? I don't want to think what might come out of my mouth instead!!! Totally agree on liking The Ark the more I watch it, and ITA on the friendship angel - angle even, too!

[Alipeeps]

I like to think he's channeling his inner Marine. But that's just me.

Channeling his inner marine. I love it!

How about The Bodacious Black Shirt of Rolled Up Sleevy Goodness!?!

You know, the more I watch 'The Ark' the more I enjoy it. The writers have really done a great job on the friendships in the team this season.

I am definitely enjoying The Ark plenty and love rewatching it - the friendship moments between the team are just wonderful.

*bounces for joy that we have turned the ep thread fluffy and fun*

Ahhhh... the unifying power of the hawtness that is Sheppard....

[Ouroboros]

Sheppard's job description does not include the requirement to lay down his life for every person/society in danger that they stumble across. He wasn't even certain that his desperate attempt to save the storage device would work. The only reason he was willing to even take such a chance was for the slim hope of saving his friend - why should be be expected to throw his life away (as that was what the chances of success amounted to) in a probably doomed attempt to save these people?

Yeah so basically what you're saying is Teyla mattered to him more than the lives of 1000 people and 200 children because she was his little snuggle buddy pseudo girlfriend. That's what I was getting and when I was talking about selfishly guided morality.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing I'd like better than to see what would develop out of Sheppard and others realizing that for him Teyla>1000 people including kids. You could even argue that that type of reaction is realistic and human and I'd like to see that played against the obvious logical fallacy of it, especially given the whole backdrop of the Wraith war and humanity's right not to be food. That's not what's going to happen though, this potentially character changing moment with long term far reaching effects is going to end up under the rug with all the rest of them come next episode.

"Oh 1000 innocents are going to die, who cares lets go, we can't come up with a plan, it's impossible" "Oh my little sort of girlfriend is going to die, we've got to do something guys, we've just got to, oh look here's that plan that was impossible to come up with 5 minutes ago!"

all we're going to be left with is the lingering stink that apparently it is Atlantis responsability to interject themselves into everyone elses business, risking life and limb, when it comes to killing people or looting technology but not when it comes to saving the lives of innocent children.

If they really wanted to pick up on that to make the show darker and actually examine how this type of behaviour is changing these people, that would be cool. I can already see the rug beckoning though so I think I'm just going to simply dislike this small part of the episode.

It was a good episode, it really was, that part just really made me wince.

[localfocus]

Well, the t-shirt of hotness is already taken for McKay's grey t-shirt. Black shirt of yum, for Shep's black t. Wonder what names we could come up with for Ronon's shirts?

[Alipeeps]

Yeah so basically what you're saying is Teyla mattered to him more than the lives of 1000 people and 200 children because she was his little snuggle buddy pseudo girlfriend. That's what I was getting and when I was talking about selfishly guided morality.

Nope. Not remotely. And for goodness sake, let's please keep the shipping issue out of this thread - we've just gotten back relatively on topic thanks..

What I was saying is that any attempt to save the people in the pod was 99% likely to kill Sheppard and not save the people in the pod anyway. It was a million to one chance that he or they would survive and not just burn up in the atmosphere along with the moon. Why on earth should you expect Sheppard to take those odds? To sacrifice his life for nothing?

Yes the only reason he did it was because of Teyla but the odds hadn't changed - he was still likely to die and still unlikely to save Teyla or the other people in the pod. But Sheppard, being who he is, could not bear to not try and spend his life wondering if maybe, just maybe, he could have saved her.

I would expect Sheppard to try his hardest to save 1,000 people if he could but I would not expect him to willingly give up and die on the slim off-chance of saving those people. I don't see how you can expect that of anyone.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing I'd like better than to see what would develop out of Sheppard and others realizing that for him Teyla>1000 people including kids.

I think you're being disingenous to suggest that Teyla>1,000 people to Sheppard - that was never stated in the episode and I don't believe it was ever meant to suggest that. What the episode shows is that Sheppard is will to make the ultimate sacrifice, to lay down his life, for even the faintest hope of saving one of his friends.

[prion]

By jove, you've got it! Atlantis needs more penguins. Everything's better with penguins. And the thought of John, fish in hand, chasing a runaway penguin down the halls of Atlantis (as it waddles away quickly, making its little "AAAUUUUNHHH!" sound) is the best EVER.
/offtopic

ARgh.........little dancing singing penguins going down the corridors? I don't think so..... Plus hey, can you imagine Shep going "Think they're edible?" bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Night Spring]

Plus hey, can you imagine Shep going "Think they're edible?" bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

BWAH!!! And Rodney running after him going, "NOOOOOO!!!!! You can't eat my penguins!"

[Night Spring]

Yes the only reason he did it was because of Teyla but the odds hadn't changed - he was still likely to die and still unlikely to save Teyla or the other people in the pod. But Sheppard, being who he is, could not bear to not try and spend his life wondering if maybe, just maybe, he could have saved her.

I would expect Sheppard to try his hardest to save 1,000 people if he could but I would not expect him to willingly give up and die on the slim off-chance of saving those people. I don't see how you can expect that of anyone.

I do believe that this is what the writers were trying to convey. However, the end result is still a bit weird for me, because it suggests that Jamus was correct (I would never call his actions "right") in sucking Teyla into the storage device. And Teyla's words in her conversation with John in the infirmary suggests that she does not hold it against Jamus -- can even be interpreted that she thinks John would go to the same extent as Jamus in saving "his" people. And not only did John not deny that, but it also seemed to me that it would be okay with Teyla if John did. And that, I find very troubling, because it's not okay with me. In my view, "doing anything for my people" stops where it infringes on the rights of innocent bystanders, a line Jamus crossed when he took and held Teyla's life hostage to his people's.

I'm not saying that the main characters should never cross that line -- having morally ambiguous characters makes for great drama, after all. But if TPTB do make the characters cross that line, they (the writers) should do so with the full awareness that that's what they are making the characters do. And the way that issue got slipped into the tag scene makes me wonder if the writers are really aware they're flirting with that line.