Sunday (317)

[Alipeeps]

Oh thank god I wasn't the only one literally sobbing over this episode

Not by a long way. I cried my eyes out. I had to pause the vid twice cos i was crying so much I couldn't see!

Thank god I was alone at the time...

[Anjirika]

Alright, so I've actually seen the episode now...

...I will say this for it. I loved it up until the whole 'I've made the hand off' if the episode had had a happy ending after that I would have given it a 10/10 but because of that I'm giving it a 0/10.

No character deserves to go in that way, and what makes me really, really, REALLY angry is that Carson should have let the bomb deposer in the room, that would have cut down the time that was wasted by the unlocking of the floor and the time Carson took to meet the guy- to me, it doesn't make sense.

0/10

0/10

And try as they might (TPTB) to kill Sparky, I still saw it. Teyla was talking about someone else (perhpas the marine), John was concerned for her because her injury, Elizabeth was forced into the date with Mike Branton and at the end when Elizabeth was giving the Eulegy, in the pauses she looked to John for support.....I still see Sparky, I still do.

Edit it to add: When Carson started operating, the tears started, and by the end I could hardly breathe..... so, if one were to rate the episode based on tears, it would be very high, but based on reason and truth to character...still a ZERO

[prion]

I think TPTB probably think that people identifies more with the kind doctors than the military in terms of killing off a character for effect.

I think that being the kindly doctor in Stargate is like wearing a t-shirt that says "kill me." First Janet, now Beckett.

[prion]

Ack! Never saw that ep! Sounds horrid! Removing any penetrating object is likely to merely increase the bleeding - there's a high risk that the object itself is forming a tamponade and slowing blood loss.. remove it and you could end up with a gusher on your hands. Not nice. Not at all. I'll bet Ronon got a good telling off from Carson (*sob*) for his antics with the arrow in Condemned.

Yeah, you don't remove penetrating objects unless you're at risk of death (like harpooned to a big whale). Now that a family member has become an EMT, he'llwalk in the room, see what i'm watching and I suddenly hear "blunt force trauma" "tension pneumothorax" or "my god they don't know what they're doing."

someone
I saw the complete opposite there. I saw a great depth of emotion; I saw people desperately trying to hold it together and not cry. This:



is the face of a man trying his damnedest not to cry.

Oh yes, the expressions on Rodney and Sheppard said a LOT. Shep is not the kind of guy to do public displays of crying, as we all know he tends to hold that stuff in, but you can see it's affected him, and Rodney's face was just sheer depression all the way around. He's lost a very, very good friend.

[TJuk]

I didn't feel like this episode was about Carson, he didn't heavily feature he just kept popping up enough to make sure his death wasn't some random event. The last part of the episode yes, but was this a 'Carson-centric' episode? No! It focused on the various characters and some developments for them (and admittedly some golden moments!) and to serve as a reminder they were all friends with Carson so they could have their teary eyed dramatic moment at the end. I thought to some extent his storyline was added to pad the episode out to make 45 mins and his death was a cruel after thought.

I think 'Sunday' had some truely excellent moments of drama, but that was pretty much down to the acting. You could SEE all the cast were upset and shocked Paul was going and the man was at his dramatic best. I found his and David's scene at the end both touching and emotional (had me bawling), but also a little grating. McKay's already stated in previous episodes SHEPPARD is his best friend. That I can beleive. If they'd built it up or shown Rodney and Carson's friendship more over the past season, I MIGHT have believed that. He is certainly a close friend, but best? Nope. That line was simply to justify the scene and while it was very moving and both actors excelled themselves it left a bad after taste . It was CLEARLY written for McKay, not Carson, to show that Rodney cares. We already knew McKay cares, thats why we love him...for the venerability hidden behind a mask of uber-ego, snarkasm and general *****iness.

Carson fans have been moaning (and rightly so) about his under-use and we've ALL wanted character development which we FINALLY got, but his death was almost a 'be careful what you wish for' warning. It DID NOT suit the ep or do the character justice mainly because there was no need for it. In a world where we are at war in Iraq and Afghanistan and more, we do not need to be reminded people die in real life, we live it everyday. We loose friends and loved ones everyday to disease, murder, accidents and old age. Mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers of soliders live with that fear everyday. Fantasy is supposed to be about escapism and realism and drama can be written and done well WITHOUT the death of a beloved MAIN character. IMO so soon into a series, loosing main cast like this is just a waste.

Personally, in the end I just felt disappointed for Paul, for his fans...and very VERY cheated.

[prion]

Yeah, if you watch it again and assume Teyla was talking about Carson it totally fits.

Oh good grief, I hadn't thought of that. Yes, if you go through everybody Carson talked to and she's always seemed to like him.... oh man, no wonder she was so down at the end (well, who wouldn't be?)

I only hope and pray that Carson is not totally forgotten in the rest of season 3.

[nonniemous]

I didn't feel like this episode was about Carson, he didn't heavily feature he just kept popping up enough to make sure his death wasn't some random event. The last part of the episode yes, but was this a 'Carson-centric' episode? No! It focused on the various characters and some developments for them (and admittedly some golden moments!) and to serve as a reminder they were all friends with Carson so they could have their teary eyed dramatic moment at the end. I thought to some extent his storyline was added to pad the episode out to make 45 mins and his death was a cruel after thought.

EXACTLY!

If it had been Rodney who was going to die? Wait...we got that episode. It was called The Tao of Rodney. But for Carson, a *main* character, credited as *regular* cast, equal to DH?

We get this travesty instead.

It's called "bait and switch" folks, the way TPTB sang Paul's praises to the high heavens in season 1, then failed to give him much at all to do in the next two seasons, only to kill him off in this off-handed, "gee, golly, look how awful life can be" fashion.

I know there were some lovely tidbits in this episode. I know it packed an emotional wallop. But NONE Of it, none of it was worth the cost to the show or the fandom. Even if (when!) they bring Paul back, it won't change the fact that they killed him first.

[watcher652]

More thoughts. Because I can't stop thinking about this episode!

1. Despite what people are wishing for, Carson didn't ascend. You just don't do that on your own. That scene at the end with Rodney talking to Carson was just a visual representation of what Rodney was going thru in his mind.

That's not to say Paul McGillion can't come back in some fashion. Alternate time line Carson, time travel Carson, shape shifter morphing into Carson ("your memory of this being is strong"), Asuran Carson, Replicator Carson (which is pretty much the same as an Asuran). But, this Carson, OUR Carson, with these people and these memories and interactions, is dead.

2. How many people are they going to get to replace Carson? The man was a doctor, a surgeon and a geneticist. Seems like that's a pretty unique set of talents. We know that in the coming episodes/season

Spoiler if you don't know about the new doctor

Spoiler:

Jewel Staite is the new doctor. That's already been published. In real life, Jewel is in her mid twenties. They could have her play older, but they can't stretch that too much. I find it really, really hard to imagine her as a full fledged doctor, even a Doogie Howser doctor, plus a surgeon and a geneticist. It was pushing the credibility boundaries with Carson, and he was in his late thirties.

Spoiler if you haven't seen David Hewlett's MGM interview

Spoiler:

David Hewlett said in his MGM interview talking about Jewel's role: "I have no idea what she actually does on the show because I haven't actually worked with her. So far, she’s been rescuing other people, other than me. McKay hasn’t gotten hurt enough. I gotta make sure McKay gets hurt badly so I get to spend some serious quality time with Jewel Staite.” They haven't started season 4 yet, so if what he says is true, that means she appears in at least one of the remaining season 3 episodes. I guessing at least the last episode.

3. There was a total waste of some very good story telling to discuss the moral implications of the genetics work Carson was doing and the conflict he might have had with his medical oath. Now the writers can just ignore that. Or, if they have 2 people to do the work Carson did, they can have the doctor yell at the geneticist instead of the harder writing of the inner conflict Carson would have to deal with.

4. I feel that a lot of Rodney's change in personality over the years was due to his hanging around Carson. As Rodney said, Carson was the closest thing to a best friend Rodney ever had. And hanging around Carson made Rodney a better person emotionally. Carson was a caring person with a ready warm smile for everyone. Carson was the kind of person who didn't mind giving a hug or holding a hand. He was the one who fixed up Rodney when he was hurt.

Sheppard is Rodney's buddy. They play sim games against each other. Sheppard is challenge to Rodney in chess. Sheppard is Rodney's team leader and protects Rodney on missions. Sheppard is a guy's guy who's handsome and brave and gets the girls and has a hard time talking about all that emotional stuff.

Carson and Sheppard are both Rodney's friend, but for different reasons. The way Rodney snarked at Carson was different from the way he snarks with Sheppard. Rodney and Carson were the two civilian science guys.

5. I think Katie is a good match for Rodney. She's in a field that Rodney wouldn't feel he had to compete with her, subconsciously or not. She has that caring side that balances Rodney defensive abrasiveness. It made me sad that Rodney didn't understand why Katie would like him, or would continue to like him after she got to know him better. Good for her in saying, "Rodney, I think I know you pretty well. There's not a lot of subtext with you." She knows how Rodney is, and she still likes him.

6. Were they trying to lead us on when

Dr. Houston: (to Teyla) But I wouldn't be surprised if he was oblivious to the whole situation.

And later,

Ronon: (to John) I always thought you and Teyla would, you know...
John: Really?
Ronon: Yeah, why not?
John: Hmm...

7. Anything the Ancients left behind in Atlantis must be really, really bad or really, really broken. They knew they were leaving. they packed up all the good stuff and took it with them.

8. I wonder if either Dr. Houston or Dr. Watson had the gene and that's how the machine got turned on? It would make sense to have a team have a person with the gene on it, if possible.

9. McKay's explanation of the explosive tumor had irriadiated particles that have been genetically programmed (what, no nanites?) to collect trace elements from the host's body. Did Dr. Houston explode first because she was practicing stick fighting with Teyla and her blood was flowing faster while Dr. Watson was golfing? Yeah, I'm trying to make sense of medical technobabble.

10. If the tumor was behind the lungs, shouldn't Carson had to open Dr. Watson from behind or could he just work around them from the front? Dr. Watson did complain about a pain and indicated his chest.

11. We lost the person that was probably the foremost authority (in both Galaxies) on the Wraith gene and the Ancient gene.

12. I'm sure there's someone that likes Dr. Biro, but if Carson didn't want to take her fishing... Well, she seemed like a real talker and maybe Carson wasn't in the mood for that. Maybe he wanted to do the talking for once and have someone listen to him.

[Shipperahoy]

I have to give some major props to Martin Gero. This was a truly excellent episode IMO. If Carson had to go then what an excellent send off. Not to mention that this is the first episode I can think of that really showed McKay having some true depth. Not to mention that despite the fact that the whole team was never together until the very end this really was an excellent team episode. In one episode they've managed to convey a more real sense of friendship and caring then in all of the other episodes combined. All in all I think this episode did a lot to flesh out the characters and to establish a real sense of danger on Atlantis.

[kymeric]

I too felt that it was stupid of Carson to be the one to deliver the tumor (and for the nurse for letting him do it) as he's the chief of staff and obviously the most qualified medical staff member on the expedition.

It's like having John go off and deliver it with a random grunt standing around.

It was obviously a cheap cop-out, used to make his death "heroic". Equally as stupid as Janet suddenly going off world to save one soldier in an on-going battle.

To be fair Hammond confessed to screwing up by sending her, and ultimately that was what cost him his command at the SGC. It was that that was investigated by woolsey and submitted to Pres Hayes that leg to Weirs tenure at the SGC. Related to Wiers reduced role? Maybe.

[Uber]

It's interesting but so far it's turned out that the episodes that I heard spoilers on and cringed because they sounded cheesy have turned out to be pretty big winners in my book. That was true of Echoes, which I personally think is one of the best episodes of the series to-date, and the same can be said now of Sunday.

Although I found the pacing to be a bit awkward and frustrating at times, it was nice to see the same day from so many different perspectives. I'm not sure what could have been done to tighten the episode to make it run more smoothly...so I'll simply chalk it up to a minor nuisance and move on.

First off, although I am a fan of Weir/Caldwell, I really liked the tall, dark and sexy Mike and I think Liz did too, if that smoky look she gave him after they locked lips was any indication. It was nice seeing her as just Liz, although even here, she felt the burden of leadership on her day off. Or was she just protecting herself from a personal relationship by hiding behind her authority?

Teyla. I liked the banter she had with the red shirt before the big boom. It was nice to see that even though we don't get to see the team interacting with others who aren't among the main core, they clearly do. And who was this clueless guy she's talking about being interested in? If I went by episode cues, I imagine that they're hinting it's Sheppard. But then the same cues could direct you to it being Ronon (my pick for Teyla). I don't imagine they'll make a huge deal out of her feelings though and will more than likely leave little bread crumbs here and there rather than put up big ol' honkin' road signs.

Sheppard and Ronon. I thoroughly enjoyed the interplay between them...Shep trying to introduce Ronon to his sport and Ronon kicking his butt both with his one handed driving skills and his one handed kick-Shep's-butt skills. Their personal discussion about love and life gave insight into how both were feeling and hello...Shep was married??!?!? Anyway...from my perspective, I'd like to think that Ronon was asking Shep about Teyla because he is interested in her but is either honestly still hurting too much to pursue anything with her or is hiding behind his fears and avoiding such entanglements.

Major Hottie...err, Lorne. As an artist, let me be the first to say how squee-worthy it is to see someone so delicious be so artistic too.

ZELENKA!!! I love my Radek. How cute was he with his chess tournament??? And did anyone else catch the reference to Dr. Mallozzi? LOL Nice. Reminds me of SG-1's Window of Opportunity, where Jack was reading a book on basic Latin, written by one Dr. Mallozzi.

Meredith. I continue to adore McKay, and seeing him in Sunday certainly didn't change that for me in any way. I love how cute he is with the plant lady. Nice nod to the events in Duet and McKay and Mrs. Miller too...showing that he is growing and changing. Frankly the fact that he's involved makes me breathe a little easier about SEASON 4 SPOILERS

Spoiler:

Sam coming to Atlantis. While I enjoy their banter, I don't want it to become the focal point of the show...and having him with someone in a relationship might serve to preclude this eventuality. Let them banter about not agreeing how to do something...but please let him lighten up slightly on his crush. Just a smidge.

Still obnoxious and overbearing at times, I was glad that the junior scientists pointed out that he turned something on without knowing what it was just the episode prior in The Ark. Good continuity there.

I cried during the scenes in Carson's room between McKay and Ronon. I was moved not only by Rodney's sense of guilt...the "if only's", but also by Ronon's effort to comfort his friend. Very moving scene and well done by both Jason and David.

Carson. Man that made me so sad. I'm glad I knew he was going to die in this episode or I would have been devastated like I was when Janet Fraiser was killed off in SG-1. The circumstances around the reason for his death were sounder than hers...as in, she very rarely/never went off world but did so in Heroes and was killed by a wayward staff blast whereas he chose to save the life of a patient at great risk to his own life. A risk that sadly he was on the losing side of.

I was a little put off by the notion of exploding tumors...but putting that aside, I was proud of my beloved Carson for putting other people first. He died as he lived...a hero.

A few other irksome things. As hot as Joe looked in his dress blues, his hair really distracted me because it was so wrong there. Especially in dress blues, the hair would have been cut shorter for the special occasion, or tamed a heck of a lot more than it was. It took me out of the moment because, as an Air Force brat, I knew that would never EVER be the case.

Then there was the funeral itself. Why was this one just for Carson? Liz said others had perished, which we knew...so why not memorialize them all at once and send them all through the gate at once? It just seemed odd.

Now I know some people didn't care for the CG for the explosion that killed Beckett or for the "ghost" scene at the end. I didn't mind either of these things because I'd rather focus on the emotional impact of those moments rather than nitpick their presentation. For example, while the CG during the explosion was a little cheesy, it was the moment we lost Carson. And for that, any weight that moment might have been lost due to the CG work was regained from the emotional weight of the event itself. We. Lost. Carson.

As for the "ghost" scene...I saw it here as many others did...as not Carson as a ghost, but rather as McKay trying to free himself from his personal demons. The guilt he felt for putting off the fishing trip with his best friend. The weight in his heart he carried for not cherishing what he and Carson had more. It was McKay coming to terms with losing his best friend in life...and that was a deep and special moment alone for him to come to terms with something so painful.

McKay was right too...things will never be the same without Carson.

Knowing bits and pieces of what's in store for next season, I have hope that while it won't be the same, that doesn't mean it will be worse. Sometimes change is good, and sometimes it isn't. I'll wait and see what the future holds for the show and the team; but one thing's for certain...I truly hope we will see Carson Beckett again.

[Haliyah]

Not by a long way. I cried my eyes out. I had to pause the vid twice cos i was crying so much I couldn't see!

Thank god I was alone at the time...

I had to do the same thing.

I'm also glad I was alone.

[ShadowMaat]

...I would've liked to of seen more emotion from the characters.

I didn't cry (much) at my father's funeral. Doesn't mean I didn't love him, doesn't mean I wasn't ripped to shreds inside; I was trying to hold it together for the rest of my family.

There were a lot of glassy eyes and tight faces at that service. Shep, McKay, Lorne, Teyla... That seemed "right" to me.

I cried watching the ep, but if I'd actually been there it might have been a different story.

ZELENKA!!! I love my Radek. How cute was he with his chess tournament??? And did anyone else catch the reference to Dr. Mallozzi? LOL Nice. Reminds me of SG-1's Window of Opportunity, where Jack was reading a book on basic Latin, written by one Dr. Mallozzi.

Radek was adorable! And I wonder if it was the same Dr. Mallozzi? It would fit, seeing as JM himself has been "transferred" to Atlantis.

[Easter Lily]

I loved this episode... sad as it was...
I'm still tearing from it but I dropped by to say... Martin Gero, the dialogue in this was pure gold.

Every episode should be as well-written as this.

[prion]

The guy that took Weir on the lunch date had some serious game. I wish I HAD IT LIKE HIM. I mean he was very talented in the art of courtship.

Carson should have run away after he handed over the bomb. I beleive thier was a corner a few feet away. He was very brave to attempt to save that man. Talk about literally being on the clock.

Another question is should Tela have removes the shrapnel from her side or leave it thier until she got some medical attention. I have heard sometimes it is better to leave it in and sometime its better to take it out.

I think that tumor causing device would be a great weapon. It could be deployed like a anti personel mine. It would "infect" the enemy and then incubate just long enough for the enemey to get back to base then explode. lol It would take forever for the enemy to figure out what was going on.

If I'd been Carson, I would have run so fast I'd have left skid marks.

You definitely don't take foreign objects out of the torso, especially shrapnel. It was on the left side, - possibly near or in the spleen - you'd have a major exsangination (bleeding) if you pulled it out, plus it would hurt like hell. Yes, if you get run through the torso, the head, etc. leave the object in, call the emergency folk and sit back and wait, unless you're harpooned to a whale, then you've got a circumstance to pull the object out.

Exploding tumors are far-fetched because the damage that Dr. Hewston (first victim) did was extensive and something else very flammable must have been nearby to have caused that fireball, but then the surgically removed tumor also went up in a fireball. Honestly don't think the human body has enough chemicals inside to create that kind of a fireball but this is scifi, must suspend belief, mus suspend belief.