Sunday (317)

[Celcool]

I will also like to register my disguist at some random who is not Sheppard kissing Elizabeth.

Too bad it wasn't John with whom she went on a date, yes. It would be perfect. Nevertheless I just liked the fact that she got to go on a date and kiss a guy!

yes, that is what I have thought, too. In "real life" you just don't go back to work in the same way after you lost a friend or a loved one. It takes time to mourn, weeks, months, sometimes even years. And I am pretty sure that next week, the show will get to normal and at least at the beginning of S4 they wil never speak of him again.

I hope they don't do that, just act like this episode never happened. I wouldn't be surprised though if there'd be no continuity. Nothing can surprise me in relation to the writing in this show anymore.

[Domesticated Equine]

As nice as it would be to have Carson mourned for a long period of time on screen, realistically it can't happen - the show has to move forward as life does. Just because the characters don't mention him doesn't mean they won't be thinking of him. I think they would be.
We never know exactly how much time passes between episodes, so it's impossible to say how long people have mourned, and by next episode the wounds may not be so raw.
I agree it would be nice to see some mention of Carson again, to know he's not forgotten, but realistically, people move on and keep their grief private.
Much of the time, I'd imagine, the expedition members are too busy to even think about those that have died. In their quieter moments, I'm sure they'd think about Carson, but on screen we rarely get to see those moments. So the magic reset button is most likely what will happen and is a fact of life in television such as Stargate.

Of course it can happen, plenty of shows have a character killed whose death impacts the others in future episodes. It's not that hard to do, but I do think it's beyond the SGA writers, who most of the time don't care about the continuity of the plots and characters one bit. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think the characters have soon forgotten all about the good doctor.

[Linzi]

Of course it can happen, plenty of shows have a character killed whose death impacts the others in future episodes. It's not that hard to do, but I do think it's beyond the SGA writers, who most of the time don't care about the continuity of the plots and characters one bit. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think the characters have soon forgotten all about the good doctor.

I think the problem is that SGA isn't a serialised show. Storylines don't often continue over into the next episode, and there are many stand alone episodes. It's all to do with success in syndication, we're told, but I don't know if that's true.

[welwynrose]

thought this was a brilliant episode - although I'm disappointed that they decided to write the Character out I think they handled it well

[Domesticated Equine]

I think the problem is that SGA isn't a serialised show. Storylines don't often continue over into the next episode, and there are many stand alone episodes. It's all to do with success in syndication, we're told, but I don't know if that's true.

That's true of course, Stargate has always been mostly a collection of one-off plots and that's obviously a concious choice. Even so, that doesn't mean you have to use the reset button in every aspect of the show every episode. You could have character arcs going throughout the season and still manage to keep casual viewers interested with the plot-of-the-week that they can get into without having seen the previous episodes. Of course, I'd rather take full-blown serialized stories, but having at least some kind of continuity would be nice.

[djmc26]

well
good episode but the decision to make Carson die is a idiocy...
He was sure one of my fav char....
I will like less the show from now on, it is evident..
i dont know why they fired him...really...not even USEFUL to the plot itself thsi death..
bah..i dont know !

[Linzi]

That's true of course, Stargate has always been mostly a collection of one-off plots and that's obviously a concious choice. Even so, that doesn't mean you have to use the reset button in every aspect of the show every episode. You could have character arcs going throughout the season and still manage to keep casual viewers interested with the plot-of-the-week that they can get into without having seen the previous episodes. Of course, I'd rather take full-blown serialized stories, but having at least some kind of continuity would be nice.

I don't disagree with you here. I'm sure there will be some mention of Carson as the series goes on. However, when I've watched some shows that are serialised which have character deaths, often I've still felt they move on too quickly. I remember an Australian medical soap I watched many moons ago. A main cast character died of lukaemia, and I cried my heart out, sobbed for hours. Even though it was a serialised show, and the departed character was mentioned many times after, it was never enough to attone for the death of said character. I think Sunday was a great episode. I didn't want Carson to die. His death seemed a little pointless to me. But, in the end, I think they gave him a good send off.

[Alipeeps]

You know I haven't seen Sunday yet and I am really anxious to do so. However, I have been reading a lot of the comments and although I agree and I am sad that Beckett is gone, I agree that unfortunately it's part of life, we all had moments in our lives when we say I should have done this or that. Think about it this way, what if Carson would have gone fishing either with Rodney, John or Ronan. How many would have died because he wasn't there to operate on this guy, to do his job. Would he be saying, I wish I wouldn't have gone fishing, maybe I could of save so many lifes, so if people don't see him as a hero in this episode, I just don't get it.

Precisely. For example, if Beckett had gone fishing... he would not have been there to operate on Teyla. And from the nurse's comments, the operation was not a simple one, she was impressed that he had been able to repair the damage as well as he had. Who knows how many more people would have died had Beckett not been there?

Ronon says he isn't ready for another romance. When is ready? Its been 8-1/2 years! He was on the run for 7, and been on Atlantis for a year and a half. The dude needs some serious sessions with Heightmeyer.

He spent 7 years on the run from the Wraith, thinking about nothing but surviving for one more day. I doubt in that period he had chance to come to terms with his loss and what had happened... he didn't even know that Sateda itself had been destroyed. Effectively, emotionally-speaking, it's almost as if his life was on hold during those seven years. It's only in the last 1 and a half years that he's had a stable enough situation to allow himself the luxury of contemplation, of grieving for his losses and coming to terms with what happened to him.

I don't think it's at all surprising that he's not ready yet.

[expendable_crewman]

The first few moments felt a tad awkward as we are suddenly drawn into the personal lives of these characters which we've seen time-and-time again in mortal danger, only exposing the part of them wishing for survival. At best, we saw grace under pressure (pun definately not intended), and a little humor/snark between buddies. But this was different. It was jarring, yes, but once I got used to it, everything became that much more wholesome, that much more sweet. I was watching the people I knew having fun, enjoying life, and all that good stuff that they've deserved since day 1.

Ah, yes. You have nailed my experience perfectly. You found the piece that, for me, won't settle. Watching from the comfort of one's living room, you'd think your characters getting thrown into mortal danger week after week exposes enough. After a few seasons of it, you start to believe, and rightly so, that you know what the characters care about, do, and think, even on their "off" time.

I found the character moments sometimes uneven and at other times cringe-worthy, which is to say they (dare I say it) mimicked life. It was the character moments that drove home this tragedy and, as you said, forced it through my skin.

It's not just that we the audience lost Carson. It's that John, Rodney, Teyla, Ronon, and Weir lost Carson.

[Domesticated Equine]

I don't disagree with you here. I'm sure there will be some mention of Carson as the series goes on. However, when I've watched some shows that are serialised which have character deaths, often I've still felt they move on too quickly. I remember an Australian medical soap I watched many moons ago. A main cast character died of lukaemia, and I cried my heart out, sobbed for hours. Even though it was a serialised show, and the departed character was mentioned many times after, it was never enough to attone for the death of said character. I think Sunday was a great episode. I didn't want Carson to die. His death seemed a little pointless to me. But, in the end, I think they gave him a good send off.

Yeah, I agree with you as well. Serialization isn't a guarantee for success but you can do things with serialized shows that you can't with just stand alone episodes. For an example of a show that handled the death of a character well, I think Farscape was very succesful when Talyn-John died. It would have been easy to trivialize the death as there was another John around, but the characters felt the effects of this loss very painfully, none moreso than Aeryn.

[MechaThor]

That was a cool episode they way it was made with the interlinking stories and the mix of humour and drama.

You also got to see all the major and minor characters which i liked. Shame gd old Coldwell was there. I would of loved to see what hermiod would have been doing on his day off. My gess would be playing Gears of War on the Xbox 360 lol.

Rather than speak about Carsons death/accention shice we know his a reacurring i would rather mention my fav parts.

-Ronan learning about Golf then playing capture the flag ronan style was cool.
-Teyla talking about the guy she likes. Is it the marine? is it sheppard? is it ronan? or all 3
-Sheppard asking Ronan if he has a boyfriend. Then seeing the look on his face lol!
-Mckay asking that fern girl to marry him by mistake.
-Lorne painting
-Zelenka winning chess in one move and winning some Ainime DVDs.
-Carson trying to go fishing.

Also its werid how Ronans 1rst time to Earth (that we know off) was holding up a coffin. Which can't of had a body in it as i am sure he accended?

[Domesticated Equine]

Which can't of had a body in it as i am sure he accended?

There's no way in my mind he ascended. The way I saw it, the last scene was just Rodney speaking with his subconcious mind. Beckett is dead and buried.

[jerkface]

Well, I've been slogging through these 15 (!) pages, so maybe I missed it, but was I the only one who found this episode unintentionally funny?

Honestly, I did try and like this episode. Whatever my reservations about the coming changes in Season 4, I wanted to watch the end of 3, hoping for moments as strong as some in its opening episodes.

I've even liked nearly all of Gero's past episodes. I did think most of the actors did a fine job with the given material. Zelenka's chess scene was cute anyway.

But damn, other than that, Sunday just seemed like an incredibly awkward jumble of abrupt character development and laugh-inducing bathos. Sheppard was married? Teyla and Elizabeth are suddenly focused on dating? Rodney's considering marriage?

...and people's tumors are exploding in the middle of hallways?!

And that all leads into the closing, unexplained ghost scene! Well, sure, that makes perfect sense! Nothing says science fiction like a good ol' ghost scene!

Or maybe it was just Rodney imagining talking to Carson. That makes just as much sense, after all, as Rodney's belief in magical spirits has been well established previously.

Just like it makes sense that Rodney's and Elizabeth's big emotional scenes are with people we've either never or barely seen before. I feel like I know so much about Katie and Mike, and their devotion to plants...and...long hair?

And, hey Carson and Rodney were really better friends with one another than anyone else. (I guess John never did trust Rodney again after Trinity...and their scenes together in Tao weren't all that important?)

Did I miss something? When did this show become a joke?

[Pitry]

The irnoy of it all is, Sunday is probably the best Atlantis episode aired to date.

Loved every second of this (even the ones that got me whimpering). So many things the show so desperately needed were addressed here. I loved the format of the episode, keeping you on your toes and yet managing to convey everything else, as well.


Elizabeth having a personal life - well, I thought that Mike bloke was a tad bit smug, but hey! They make a nice couple . Teyla, shown to have activities with other Earth personal - hey, if they actually bothered to show this side of her more often, I wouldn't've complained so much at how non-alien she is. She's always struck me as so much Earth-ised, os early in the show. But if she's seen in her every day life, inserted into scenarios that allow her to make comments that show the cultural difference, this could actually work. Here's to more day to day interaction for her. Loved the Weir half cancelling on Teyla, half begging her not to let her cancel Finally, the long awaited interaction between the two of them. I think they do get along well together, and it could have been so much help for Teyla's character, giving her this every one in a while (small sigh).

Sheppard and Ronon. Again, sorely missed til now. Yes, we've seen these two together. This was more a continuation of a relationship than the first portrayel of one... but it was done in a great, contributing way. They do sit around and talk. They do play together - loved Ronon's "game" ha! I'm actually thinking they're finally starting finding their footing around Ronon, starting to see his point. the character really is starting to make more sense.... more on that front as well, please.

Rodney... dating! Ahhhh! And that reference to McKay and Mrs Miller... yes, the character is growing, is evolving... I love Rodney's insane hysteria, but seeing him stumbling on a whole different dimension is just as well. Plus, this interaction with Katie finally corrected what is one of my biggest pet peeves about Duet - Rodney can interact with people, and he's shown it plenty of times before, and here he is, acting like a human being, a guy who really likes a girl, and not the stupid caricature of Duet. And his speech when wakened from sleep - genius!

Lorne painting! Zelenka's chess games! ha!
And yeah. Carson. Sigh. So I was exposed to the news he does die, and doesn't "disappear" as had been stated before, before the episode. Part of the reaosn for whimpering - when it became clear how the Rodney-Carson interaction's going to go, Rodney trying to get off fishing and p[romising him to go next week... yup, one of the whimpering moments. I can't believe they did something like to Rodney. That scene with Ronon - well, at least they used it. As a whole, Carson was so charming in this episode, sniff. And sigh, that last scene. Yes, it was pure cheese, Carson's "ghost" - or rather, memory... but it should have been there, at least in some form, if not with the full cheese of it. A shame they're utilising Carsopn so well in the one episode he's being killed off, and not in the entire season.

As for the stupid "explosive tumor" excuse... oh, come on. SG1 had always had the grace not to use stupid pklot devices - well, most of the time. I can see - and agree - why they didn't wan tto make this a bomber episode. That wasn;t the centre of the episode, it would have stolen the story into a direction they shouldn't've gone to, not in this episode. But there must have been a better way than explosive tumors. Sigh.

Stargate's always killed characters well, I'd grant them that. And Sunday was no exception, an excellent episode, and an excellent goodbye to a fantastic character. But Stargate Atlantis, at the place it's right now with characters, cannot afford killing off one of its better established characters - a mistake that hopefully whoever made that stupid decision would realise. Now there's only hoping they would be wise enough to utilise this death in the better way - following the Daniel Jackson example - and not the worse way - following the Janet Frasier and the complete lack of mention for a season and a half example. They could actually use this to give some beef and humanity to those characters who lack it most.

excellent, cruel, wonderful, heart jerking, and the best SGA episode I've seen. More of those please - just without the killing major characters part.

[Domesticated Equine]

Did I miss something? When did this show become a joke?

The second season, I'd say.

Anyway, I agree with a lot of what you said but I feel the abruptness of the character development can't really be helped since we usually don't have any. At least there's some effort in this episode.

And regarding the final scene, I'm of the opinion that Beckett wasn't a ghost or anything like that. It was just a visual way of showing us Rodney coming to grips with Beckett's death.