Phantoms (309)

[travis]

Not bad ep. kinda have mix feeling on this ep.
There were really tense moments and then there were sloppy moments, which is why I'm a bit conflicted. Love Teyla in this ep, Rodney was a dick again you think he'll be bit less arrogant and obnoxious after last ep. So I was glad he got shot, I saw that as poetic justice, but it was funny anyway.

Shep back story was a bit weak, but was a continuty to the ep Home in season 1, I think it was that dead guy that we saw in his reality. ( note to self must see that ep again to see if it was the same guy). Good to see Carson back and being active on away mission. Ronan LOL first thing that comes to mind, Gorilla in the mist.

[MB.Eddie]

Overall i found the ep to be quite disapointing. It was quite predictable, and has been done numerous times.

Positive was that we got to learn a bit more about Sheppards background.

[Willow'sCat]

For me, it makes me wonder why the writers chose Teyla in the first place

Well they used Teyla because she was going to be the only one unaffected because of her DNA, it was solely to drag this slight story out to fill the 40 odd minutes it had to. If they used Rodney, then who is fixing the generator? If they use Ronon then who is shooting at them after what's his name is blown to kingdom come? If they use Carson then no angst for Carson plus a good chance he would have a "shot" of something to give John to knock him out. If they used a nameless person then that wouldn't have worked for so many reasons, not least who cares about the nameless peeps... no it needed to be the only one with Wraith DNA. That just happened to be Teyla. No big mystery there.

[OutThere]

I'ts also interesting to add....that John knew he was loosing it so, why didn't John leave immediately....he wouldn't risk hurting Teyla....and then of coarse, he knew Teyla wouldn't hurt him because he figured out that because of her Wraith DNA she would not be affected...so, like a friend just mentioned to me, John knew that he wasn't going to hurt Teyla before he went into his hallucination...he was even joking with her....and he also knew that she wasn't going to hurt him....

For some reason I hadn't put it together before that of course the machine would protect someone with Wraith DNA. So Teyla became Shep's friend in his hallucination, and all the humans were enemies. Thanks for pointing that out.

[aaobuttons]

Loved:
The Rodney/Teyla interactions, I'm glad we're seeing more of them this season.
The Sheppard backstory. I'm glad we finally got it, it was enough for me and if they want to go back to it later then fine, but no biggie.
More Shep/Teyla friendship. Romantic shipper or friendshipper or just gen, it was a good time.
Poor Carson... I'd be having nightmares about that for years if I was him.
Rodney getting shot. That was an OMG moment/twist for sure. You always expect our heroes to get clipped in the arm or leg, but a shot to the chest you don't see coming.
Kull Warriors, nice to see them again!


Didn't love:
Ronan's run through the forest. It worked... but it didn't really do anything for me. I'd probably have been more interested if he was going after that military guy he killed in season 2. I understand that the Wraith are his biggest fear, but it had been done before.
No Chuck... who's this new gal and where's Chuck?
Weak use of Weir and Zelenka. I like what somebody suggested about having Zelenka interupt Weir doing something important instead of her just looking bored. Or maybe have them brainstorming on ways to cut through the interference on the planet. Something!

[grasshopper64]

Overall a good episode, and once again I found it so much better than SG1.

I liked that Teyla and Carson were more involved here. I liked the Sheppard backstory bit, although like others have said, I was expecting more, like something concerning his family background.

Mckay getting shot, I couldn't help but thinking of when Jack shot Daniel in Lockdown "you shot me", brilliant!

[ShadowMaat]

Shep's so-called backstory was, as someone else said, superficial. We didn't learn anything we didn't know already, we just had it put into pictures.

Will second the feeling that Teyla's attempts to talk Shep out of his hallucination got tedious especially since, at the end, she immediately latched on to the obvious solution: play along with the fantasy and get Shep to do what you want that way.

The Carson stuff was wonderful although I couldn't help wondering if the guy he was performing CPR on was really dead or if Carson just thought he was. Having the "not as injured" guy die was a nice- if cliched- twist, but Carson single-handedly hauling the "critically injured and oft-dying" guy halfway through the woods without incurring more damage seemed a little dodgy to me. I also can't help wondering if there was something Carson could have done to help the "not as injured" guy but the hallucinations prevented him from realizing there was any need.

McKay's paranoia about the machine was in keeping with his character and other than the *****ing about his sciatica I didn't see anything particularly insulting about the way he was portrayed. It's always nice to see McKay when he isn't being treated like a caricature... although the "You shot me!" thing at the end did start to wear after the first two times.

I must have missed the discussion about why a puddlejumper couldn't be sent to rescue them. I wandered off to take a shower at one point- must have been then.

As for the plot as a whole, I found it very... tedious. The "hallucinations" thing is so ancient it coughs up mothballs and I didn't feel that anything particularly new or interesting was done with it this time around. It's the same old story with the same old twists and the same old predictible outcome. What did we really learn about the characters? Shep has a Hero Complex, Ronon hates the Wraith, Carson is a good doctor and Rodney is afraid of failure. Gee, what a surprise. Teyla's Wraithy genes conveniently left her out of it all so we never get to learn a single thing about what makes her mind tick.

Sure, there was some good stuff in the ep, but I don't think the payoff was worth it and I kinda wish they'd gone in another direction. One that doesn't involve hallucinations. Kinda wish I'd skipped the whole thing. It's a one-off ep anyway and it'll have no impact on anything whatsoever in the future, except maybe some snarking about Shep shooting people. Not worth it, IMO.

[expendable_crewman]

Well they used Teyla because she was going to be the only one unaffected because of her DNA, it was solely to drag this slight story out to fill the 40 odd minutes it had to. If they used Rodney, then who is fixing the generator? If they use Ronon then who is shooting at them after what's his name is blown to kingdom come? If they use Carson then no angst for Carson plus a good chance he would have a "shot" of something to give John to knock him out. If they used a nameless person then that wouldn't have worked for so many reasons, not least who cares about the nameless peeps... no it needed to be the only one with Wraith DNA. That just happened to be Teyla. No big mystery there.

I think what makes the use of Teyla in this episode more interesting is she's shared Sheppard's alternate reality before. In Home , she was the recipient some of his combat history too.

Either Ronon or Teyla ... both were suitable as teammates capable of understanding war trauma, IMO. I can think up scenarios that switch Ronon, Teyla, and Sheppard around and still move the story, so it's been fun for me to read everyone's ideas.

Something I picked up on that I liked when I watched again:
From within the context of the story, we don't know when Sheppard figured out Teyla wasn't going to lose it. He brought it up after he re-bandaged her leg, when he was lucid. In the previous scene, he turns from Ronon and in the same moment sees Captain Holland. I thought he looked like a guy who was hoping he was going to stay unaffected and suddenly realized that he was going to lose control. He'd already seen the result of that. Within the context of the story, I don't imagine looking at three Atlantis expedition Marines sprawled on the ground was a sight he was going to forget.

I'm impressed by the fact that he didn't get away from Teyla as fast as he could. He's got to know how effective he is in combat. I think the story was saying that based on his vision and the way he felt about it, he must have been very sure that if he slipped again, Teyla was safe. I liked that dynamic. I didn't appreciate it until I watched the episode again. I just think that with what we *do* know about Sheppard to date, if he thought he was capable of hurting her, after he knew he was slipping, when he was lucid again he would have cleared out and told her why. On the lethal scale, her leg wound vs. deluded Sheppard with a gun ... I'm convinced he would have boogied.

I think all the speculation about why the writers gave the characters their particular reality and what it meant to the characters and the episode (and the viewers) is a great way to show appreciation for the episode. There have been a lot of ideas presented on this thread. My thanks to the many who have respected each and everyone's right to express them.

[Major Gambit]

Terrific episode, I just love it when they tie it to SG-1 like that.

[Jeyla4ever]

Well they used Teyla because she was going to be the only one unaffected because of her DNA, it was solely to drag this slight story out to fill the 40 odd minutes it had to. If they used Rodney, then who is fixing the generator? If they use Ronon then who is shooting at them after what's his name is blown to kingdom come? If they use Carson then no angst for Carson plus a good chance he would have a "shot" of something to give John to knock him out. If they used a nameless person then that wouldn't have worked for so many reasons, not least who cares about the nameless peeps... no it needed to be the only one with Wraith DNA. That just happened to be Teyla. No big mystery there.

That's a good point...but then again...we don't know about Ronon....we know they can't feed on him..so he could have been an alternative....

and the story could still have unfolded, I think, with someone else, because we know that the device was protecting Teyla from having hallucinations herself, but we know that it was not shielding her from others seeing her as friendly...I mean Rodney still saw Carson as Carson...and he saw Teyla and John when they came forward....they didn't have to have John with someone else from his past to tell the story....I don't think anyways, it could have gone another way...I think the point was to solidy this bond between them and it was beautifully interpreted while at the same time showing the background.....so, I think it could have been done differently if the writer's wanted to.....there is always room for other scenarios....so, I don't think it was that it could have only been Teyla....

[Jeyla4ever]

I think what makes the use of Teyla in this episode more interesting is she's shared Sheppard's alternate reality before. In Home , she was the recipient some of his combat history too.

Either Ronon or Teyla ... both were suitable as teammates capable of understanding war trauma, IMO. I can think up scenarios that switch Ronon, Teyla, and Sheppard around and still move the story, so it's been fun for me to read everyone's ideas.

Something I picked up on that I liked when I watched again:
From within the context of the story, we don't know when Sheppard figured out Teyla wasn't going to lose it. He brought it up after he re-bandaged her leg, when he was lucid. In the previous scene, he turns from Ronon and in the same moment sees Captain Holland. I thought he looked like a guy who was hoping he was going to stay unaffected and suddenly realized that he was going to lose control. He'd already seen the result of that. Within the context of the story, I don't imagine looking at three Atlantis expedition Marines sprawled on the ground was a sight he was going to forget.

I'm impressed by the fact that he didn't get away from Teyla as fast as he could. He's got to know how effective he is in combat. I think the story was saying that based on his vision and the way he felt about it, he must have been very sure that if he slipped again, Teyla was safe. I liked that dynamic. I didn't appreciate it until I watched the episode again. I just think that with what we *do* know about Sheppard to date, if he thought he was capable of hurting her, after he knew he was slipping, when he was lucid again he would have cleared out and told her why. On the lethal scale, her leg wound vs. deluded Sheppard with a gun ... I'm convinced he would have boogied.

I think all the speculation about why the writers gave the characters their particular reality and what it meant to the characters and the episode (and the viewers) is a great way to show appreciation for the episode. There have been a lot of ideas presented on this thread. My thanks to the many who have respected each and everyone's right to express them.

I agree..not only that but then you wonder, he knew that Teyla wasn't going to hurt him either...and he did say, no violent urges yet...so, I think he figured out that by seeing Teyla as Holland, which he didn't deny to her that he was beginning to have the hallucinations, he figured out that not only he wasn't going to hurt her cause he was seeing her as his friend, he also told her don't worry about it....he wouldn't have endangered her at all if he wasn't sure...and he also knew that she was not going to be affected so, he was safe from her as well....

great points..and I do thank those who are being so polite and allowing others to freely voice their opinions, regardless if you agree or not.....It's threads like these that make it worth while to share your honest opinion....

[doylefan22]

...Rodney was a dick again you think he'll be bit less arrogant and obnoxious after last ep. So I was glad he got shot, I saw that as poetic justice, but it was funny anyway...

Perhaps you weren't watching closely enough but he certainly wasn't a 'dick' in this episode. He was still tetchy, irritably and snarky under stress but that is just him. He's also shown as considerate and caring - he's concerned about the state of the marines, he comforts Carson, he tells the marine not to worry when he appologises for being a burden and his first instinct is to cover Carson so he can work on the downed marine when they get attacked. That is certainly not the McKay we first met!

He'll always be arrogant - mix his genius and his personality and that's pretty much a given - but he is showing some development.

[Elinor]

Another very enjoyable episode...and I think it was even better on second viewing.

I also didn't pick up on Carson's illusion, that he was seeing the dead marine, so that was creepy.

Was nice to see a snippet of Shep's backstory...it put 'on screen' a bit of what we had heard about him. Laughed at the fact that his terrible sense of direction was shown again!!

Nice to see Teyla had some good stuff to do this time as well.

Heh...Rodney getting shot by Shep...and him so not letting it go...even though Shep apologized...many times!!

The writers have done well with showing us the team and their relationships with each other this season...

...and, ending on a fangirly note, I would like to express my thanks to the Wardrobe Dept for not only giving us Shep + leather jacket, but also Shep + desert gear! I wait in eager anticipation to see what they're going to give us next!!

[stewsith]

Backstory yey! We found out about that black mark in Afganistan that Wier and O'neil mentioned in Rising which was cool. I really wish we could get even more deeper backstory on the Atlantis characters, expecially Carson and Teyla. We know nothing about their backstory and experiences so far.

[Mitchell82]

Backstory yey! We found out about that black mark in Afganistan that Wier and O'neil mentioned in Rising which was cool. I really wish we could get even more deeper backstory on the Atlantis characters, expecially Carson and Teyla. We know nothing about their backstory and experiences so far.

I loved the backstory as well. Even though it reminded me of Paridise Lost it was very different and I loved every minute of it.