McKay and Mrs. Miller (308)

[SGalisa]

Wow! Not just a nice glimpse David's real life sister (Kate), but 2 Rodney's as well...! more doubles.. It was interesting how calm and (stablized) different alternate Rod was to Rodney.. "not condescending" (as noted by Sheppard).

I was so glad to see Shep helping with Rodney and Jeannie's reconcilliation. I loved the scene in Shep's room when Rodney was pacing back and forth, spilling his guts and John sat there cleaning his golf clubs and lending an ear, remaining calm in the face of Rodney's anxiety and misery....acting aloof, but then going behind Rodney's back and showing Jeannie the video so that she could see that Rodney does care about her and has thought about her over the years........very much in keeping with the Sheppard-McKay relationship and the way they deal with each other imho.

I was hoping there'd be some kind of connection to "Letters from Pegasus". Apparently, either that part of the tape transmission never made it to earth, or else was never shown to Jeannie in the first place. Something McKay really hoped would somehow reach his sister above all else (it seemed to imply that was his soul's desire, anyway).

I loved the beginning of the ep, when Jeannie picked up the idea of making the quantum whatever bridge, and started going on a painting spree... Then her hubby comes home and Madison is just staring into the room where her mommy is lost in thought with her equations... that was great!

Also enjoyed Jeannie's awe-struck stares at the viewing window of hyperspace and Hermiod... Guess she got a huge dose of everything all at once to equalize the other portions of that mega genius mind.

[Adrius]

My high school years (and middle school) were quite thoroughly miserable, but I got over it. What happened to Rodney here didn't even approach the viciousness that children engage in towards each other, though. The important thing to remember here is that though they may give him a hard time, the team really does like Rodney.

Exactly my point. Sheppard counsels Rodney in this ep and then goes out of his way behind his back to make sure his sister knows how much he cares. He understands that Rodney is emotionally shut off. Heck, Sheppard, by his own admission, thinks of Rodney as family (Sateda).. and in his "Letter from Pegasus" showed again in this ep, Rodney admits the same!

Guys are like that though, we don't get touchy feely usually, not in the way that some people might think. Us making fun of one another and poking at one another is really just our way of saying we really care (at least that's how it works amongst my friends) cause we aren't just gonna come out and say "I love you man!" When someone is your friend, and you make fun of them, you sort of expect it in return, it's a sign of trust, that you say these things in a friendly manner, that you trust others not to take it seriously and trust others not to be serious when they return the insults

[The Signal]

To TPTB:

THANK YOU! For getting rid of the ZPM!!!

Finally there is the opportunity to get back to the pretty much stranded feel of S1, which I have missed greatly.

Rodney being left out was harsh, but also realistic and well written, coupled with the end, where the rest of the team say they didnt like Rod (which seemed to be a lie to make Roney feel better) it adds a great deal of realism to the team.

Kate Hewlitt is brilliant, all I can say is bring her back at some point over the next 2 years or so, she plays off of her brother so well, as does her character.

Overall, I'd say that this episode, coupled with one or two others this season, is more than promising, in fact I'd even say shows that Atlantis is on the way to becoming SG1's superior, which i'd love.

9/10 - Only loosing a point for the Meredith stuff, it was funny at first, but after that it got a little OTT. (Carter was also out of caracter, but I find that having characters acting slightly different depending on the show they are on helps to set them apart as we are seeing them from another point of view. )

[LaCroix]

Can I say how much I enjoyed this episode.

First. I loved the fact that David's sister Kate played his on screen sister. There where times that I say both actors drawing on their experinces as brother and sister to fuel their characters sibiling rivaling.

Second. I too thought it funny about Rodney's first name, until I saw the poster of Johnny Cash. All the meta and symbolism was right there in that poster. I'm not sure how posters here know that Johnny Cash sang a song called A Boy Named Sue in my day. Lets just say it brought the name Meredith Rodney McKay into a whole new meaning.

Third. I think what Jeannie was trying to do with "telling tales out of school"
about her brother is her way of taking down Rodney a peg or two. I know that the worst people to introduce co-workers to is a brother/sister. They know all your secrets, what you did when you where young. I think she was also trying to make him more of a part of the team, teaching him a little humility, therefore human.

Fourth. I thought that when Rod was going home, normally Rodney would be the most cautious, not taking any chances of losing the ZPM. I saw Rodney start the beginnings of being more Rod like willing to take risks. I also saw Rodney start to become more social, in the end when he sat down with the team.


ETA: I finally realized why Rodney was uncomfortable when Madison hugged him. It reminded him that he's very much still a little boy, trying to get everyone's attention/approval. Hopefully with this in mind
maybe later episodes we'll see more Rodney fully becoming Rod.


As Always JMHO. YMMV.

[M.G.S]

To TPTB:

THANK YOU! For getting rid of the ZPM!!!

Finally there is the opportunity to get back to the pretty much stranded feel of S1, which I have missed greatly.

Rodney being left out was harsh, but also realistic and well written, coupled with the end, where the rest of the team say they didnt like Rod (which seemed to be a lie to make Roney feel better) it adds a great deal of realism to the team.

I have to agree with the sentiment of being glad that the ZPM is gone. The idea of them being stranded would make all their future consequences have more meaning. Kind of like in the first season.

I did feel sorry for Rodney in this episode but I think it worked great. The siblings did an awesome job. The last moment where they hug was what really sold the episode for me. 10/10 for me.

[Seastallion]

Exactly. They're his friends. You expect that sort of crap from the bullying jerks who harrass you, but when it's coming from your friends it's even worse. I know Rodney's an easy target for mockery, but whatever happened to sticking up for your friends? Why do they have to tell stories that ONLY humiliate him? He's accomplished a lot of good, too.

Like I said, I know why they did it and I think one scene of the derisiveness would have been fine, but the card was overplayed, IMO, and it went from being funny to being mean.

I understand what your saying, and if it was as though his friends had NEVER come through for him personally on more than one occaison, I might agree. However, seeing as they have (multiple times) come through for him despite his flaws, he KNOWS they care for him, and vice-versa. His ego is big enough without stoking it, so his friends hound him in an attempt to take the edge off of him. I think deep down he knows this, so he knows that his team is only screwing with his head, not his heart. He knows that when the chips are down they will come through for him. Even Ronan.

[NotAscended]

Thanks, Pocus, for pointing out the picture I had missed.

Second. I too thought it funny about Rodney's first name, until I saw the poster of Johnny Cash. All the meta and symbolism was right there in that poster. I'm not sure how posters here know that Johnny Cash sang a song called A Boy Named Sue in my day. Lets just say it brought the name Meredith Rodney McKay into a whole new meaning.

Third. I think what Jeannie was trying to do with "telling tales out of school"
about her brother is her way of taking down Rodney a peg or two. I know that the worst people to introduce co-workers to is a brother/sister. They know all your secrets, what you did when you where young. I think she was also trying to make him more of a part of the team, teaching him a little humility, therefore human.

Fourth. I thought that when Rod was going home, normally Rodney would be the most cautious, not taking any chances of losing the ZPM. I saw Rodney
become Rod more willing to take risks. I also saw Rod start to become more social, in the end when he sat down with the team.

Nice Johnny Cash connection!

I agree that Jeannie was trying to knock Rodney down a peg or two, and it was an expression on her part of some of her anger with him for his attitudes about her choices and his arrogance towards her in the past. Still kind of mean, but understandable.

As for the team teasing him, I've always seen that as both friendly and their own way of helping him grow. Rodney has been shown to fairly consistently belittle Zelenka and others and makes no pretense that he thinks he is the smartest person in two galaxies. His behavior seems to come out of discomfort with himself and his own fears. As his friends, I think the rest of the team knows that and their teasing is their way to make him expand his comfort zone. While some of that humor was juvenile, its the kind of things guys really do say to each other and in the context of this episode created a stronger counterpoint to the AU Rod who has a great relationship with his sister and is the "cool" one in Atlantis.

The end scenes, for me, were recognition on Rodney's part that he has gotten past some of his personal issues. He still can't say what he really feels to his sister, but can finally give her a hug and wants to rebuild that relationship. When he sits down and joins in the laughter at John teasing Teyla, it symbolic of the fact that he can now feel comfortable with them as his friends.

This episode is also a nice bookend to S2's Trinity (the last time they tried to create zero point energy), which ended with Rodney apologizing to his team members for his arrogance and hoping to win back their trust (and implicitly, their affection).

[SciFiGeek]

But that's what friends do to. When you're good friends with people and you're comfortable with them you do have a laugh at each other's expense, giggle at their embarrassing moments and generally rib each other. But you laugh it off - you know they still like you. Rodney, unfortunately, still seems wary of them. His friendship with the rest of the team isn't all that comfortable to him yet and he tends to think the worst of people. He also has a tendancy to belittle and humiliate people himself and does so in a far less jovial manner.

I would argue that it's because they're not exactly his friends. Actions speak louder than words; I don't care if Sheppard said back in Sateda that he considers even McKay family--this was the first time I've gotten any impression from any of the team since first season season that they actually do like and care about McKay. (With the possible exception of Grace Under Pressure.) Every episode in between has been hitting the same note of circular behavior--McKay acts arrogant and cocky, partly as a result of his own insecurities and paranoia, and the others, seeing only the arrogance, antagonize and belittle him, he thinks less of himself and acts even more cocky to make up for his insecurities. Though I have a sickening notion that the writers don't see it as that complex--they just see it as funny to have McKay act arrogant and the others make fun of him for it. A big AMEN to whomever it was that said that it's more about laughing at him rather than with him.

And unfortunately, that's something to could be applied to just about every McKay episode in the series, especially post-season one. What I want to know is, why is it so difficult to have a serious McKay episode? Why is it that every episode how him has to be "funny"? (Bear in mind that I do not share the juvenile humor of the writers when it comes to SG:A.) Why don't we have an episode where Ronan has to share his body with someone else and walks around apparently talking to himself (heck, might develop him into some sort of character more than the bully of a jerk who does little more than sneer at other people while waving his gun in their face) and we have a serious episode that puts McKay in a more dire situation akin to Sateda. (Again, there is Grace Under Pressure, but to an extent, that episode was still funny in it's own respect--though, IMO, considerably more hitting the mark than the cruetly and cringeworthiness of this episode and Duet.)

Couple of main reasons I was frustrated by this episode: I think this episode would've been great in first season. But coming in third season...it just hit home to me how little character development there is on this show, and in general how poor it's been, all around. I mean, after two and a half years on Atlantis, McKay is still the McKay of 48 hours, and still awkward with the team--despite everything that's happened. I think the episode would've been a lot better had it, rather, been his sister coming to Atlantis and seeing how much had already changed in the last four years--rather than the "change" coming about as a result of her coming. Especially since this is hardly the first time there's been revelation on the part of McKay that hints at future change in the character...which was immediately forgotten in the next episode. (Defiant One, Trinity, Grace Under Pressure.)

I also think I was more irritated with Sheppard with his participating in the juvenile back-biting, mean-spiritedness of laughing at McKay behind his back; I expect that behavior from Ronon, and I've long since given up hope that Teyla's diplomatic skills and ability to sympathize with even wraith-turned-humans could not extend to McKay. But there's been such great indication in the past that there was shared commonality between McKay and Sheppard, even though it was never actually acknowledged (which was what was sort of great about it). I love the moment in Before I Sleep when they're sitting in the exact same position going over rooms in Atlantis...or the Defiant One with Weir's comment about "how could either of you resist a crashed Wraith ship"...or the only moment in Irresistible I liked, their short discussion of who had played Catwoman in the original Batman. Great little, hey, we actually are kind of similar moments. Which has been what made their interaction so great in the past. So in this episode, I found myself disliking the golfing scene when he was talking bad about McKay to "Rod." Can Sheppard really not see that McKay has changed?? It shows severe lack of character development on the part of McKay--that he is still the same cocky jerk from 48 Hours. But unfortunately, Sheppard hasn't really developed much over the last 2 and a half seasons, either.

I also felt a little too much like everything in McKay's life that has gone wrong must be his fault--especially in regards to his sister. When I first read that MG was doing an episode about his sister, I was intrigued--but I was very disappointed when spoilers leaked the reason why they haven't talked in four years. I've long felt that Stargate, and especially Atlantis, have a tendency, when it comes to hard, serious character development, like to take the wimp's way out and go for the stereotype, rather than going down the dark, dramatic path that would flesh their characters out into three dimensions.

I think the writers don't really know how to do character development well on this show, and every now and then they throw us a bone like this, even though in the long run, it's going to have absolutely no consequences and no changes for an aspect of the show or characters in the future. So I predict, we'll probably have yet another McKay episode, either later in the season or during 4th, when he comes to a "realization" what a horrible person he's been to people and how he needs to change that...and the cycle will continue.

You know, it's not really out of the realm of possibility for a genre television show to successfully combine the metaphysical aspects with legitimate character development; BSG, ST;DS9, heck even SG1 to an extent, have all demonstrated that. Though this far into the series, I no longer have that much hope for Atlantis.

[Major Gambit]

Great episode, very funny.


Also, no ZPM?!?!?1 NOOOOooooo.


Do you think they finished that stargate bridge to earth yet?

[siXbrownSnakes2]

They say it's almost done, but

Spoiler:

they go back to earth in "The Return" so it's probably finished by then.

And did I mention how great next weeks ep looks?

[kymeric]

Good episode. Lol @ being named meridith.

We learned in the first epsiode of the season that 2 markII's can power the chair/drones, and we still have a full complement of drones from the tower. So its not THAT bad of news. Just no sheild or cloak. If 2 mk2s can power the chair that means shield =30 mk2's, lol. Dont worry, sooner or later they will have come up with an equivilant power source to the ZPM. The Mk2 is allready a short term zpm solution.

Meredith.

[kris]

Nice little episode. Not quite what I expected. Expected it to be funnier or more dramatic. Glad they didn't go overboard in the sentimental department, however. Liked the ending, McKay's conflict with his sis (she's marvelous by the way; I hope she comes back in another episode). But I found the jokes predictable. School jokes, kirking. The Meredith thing was all right. It helped.

I found the entrance of AU "Rod" McKay to be a bit off and was surprised to see him introduced halfway through the episode. It seems the suspense of having another McKay pop in died off when they jumped to the holding room scene and Zelenka wasn't present. I felt he needed to be present, being upset, keep the tension going. But hey, I guess in the Stargate universe that kind of thing happens all the time (I should know, I've been watching this universe since its Showtime days). Hewlett did fab job acting, wonderful nuance. Rod was different, yet it's the same guy.

Anyone think "very tall oompa-loompas" in that sterile room, white-suit scene with the techs? I had to go there.

Good entertainment. As always! Kris

[RoryJ]

I mean, after two and a half years on Atlantis, McKay is still the McKay of 48 hours, and still awkward with the team--despite everything that's happened.

I don't think Rodney will ever stop being awkward around the team, because Rodney will always be awkward around people. It's who he is; he's not comfortable in social situations. Things were obviously bad with his parents, and they've never been quite right since. I'd consider a scene where Rodney is just lounging around with the team cracking jokes casually to be out of character. They're still his family, but Rodney still has trouble connecting to people, whether they mean a great deal to him or not.

That said, I adored this episode to bits. Kate was just utterly fantastic, and her performance along with David's just sold this episode a hundred times over. It was nice to see a home base episode with lots of science but also lots of character. I actually disliked Rod - I love my awkward and emotionally inept Rodney much better.

Everyone had a great part, even if it was tiny. (Although, where was Carson? There was room for him in this ep, and TPTB wasted him completely. Shame.) I like how John seemed to get along with Rod much more at first, but he eventually realized that he'd gotten used to his Rodney. And Ronon's reason for not liking Rod was just too funny.

Seeing Zelenka back in a larger context was great. Now all I want is my Lorne back (has it been seven episodes? *cries*). I also greatly appreciated Sam's presence. She really does have a grasp on who Rodney is and can work with his grain. Her teasing of them on the Daedalus was so cute.

In addition, the musical score to this episode was beautiful, especially at the beginning. I want my Atlantis soundtrack, NOW. The first one was beautiful, but it was for the first episode. SGA just has a great score to it that has been wonderfully developed these past few years (the same with SG-1; they need an updated soundtrack too).

A couple of nitpicks? Where was the mention of the piano? I want my piano! Also, I would have thought that Jeannie would have been more affected by seeing Rodney's message to her. He said all the things that she'd been trying to get him to say the whole episode, but it didn't seem to have much of an effect on her at the time, though. Although John was an absolute sweetheart for showing it to her. Little things like that show how much John cares (in a non-slash way, okay?). But that did bring up a question - why didn't Jeannie get the message a year and a half ago? Shouldn't Rodney's message have been delivered along with everyone else's? I didn't get that part. And one last nitpick - I love that they doused the ZPM (even though in the whole year they had it I was vainly hoping that they would explore farther reaches of the city), but did no one care? Um ... you're all screwed when the Wraith or the Asurans come ... does that not concern you? Okay.

Nonetheless, my nitpicks are small. This was one of my absolute favorite episodes of the series. I read (possibly on GW) that MG is already thinking of ways to bring Kate back in season 4, so I absolutely can't wait for that. This was just a great outing for the series.

[Elinor]

Nice episode...bit slow in parts and a bit too much techno-babble for me...but I loved the team moments and the little talks between Shep and McKay. Atlantis writers are really producing excellent stuff in that department this season. The golfing was a nice touch to!

Didn't bother me the laughter at Rodney's expense. My friends and I do this sort of thing with each other all the time..and we love each other to bits!! We just do it 'cos we're all so comfortable with each other...and it seems the Atlantis team are all feeling this way now to!

[doylefan22]

I would argue that it's because they're not exactly his friends. Actions speak louder than words; I don't care if Sheppard said back in Sateda that he considers even McKay family--this was the first time I've gotten any impression from any of the team since first season season that they actually do like and care about McKay. (With the possible exception of Grace Under Pressure.) Every episode in between has been hitting the same note of circular behavior--McKay acts arrogant and cocky, partly as a result of his own insecurities and paranoia, and the others, seeing only the arrogance, antagonize and belittle him, he thinks less of himself and acts even more cocky to make up for his insecurities.

I love and adore Rodney but, let's face it, he's an arrogant, rude, antagonistic, smug little sod. Or at least that's what he chooses to be. Now we are aware from his back story that there are reasons he is this way but still he doesn't make himself easy to get on with nor does he go out of his way to make people like him. And that's one of the things I like about his character. I don't ever see him thinking less of himself because of the others ribbing him - it just irritates the heck out of him that they don't worship the ground he walks on! He does need that knocking down a peg or two because otherwise his ego would get out of control.

And you're right, actions do speak louder than words. Considering how many times the team has helped saved his life and looked out for him whilst on missions, I think it's pretty clear how much they care for him. He just doesn't make it very easy.

And unfortunately, that's something to could be applied to just about every McKay episode in the series, especially post-season one. What I want to know is, why is it so difficult to have a serious McKay episode? Why is it that every episode how him has to be "funny"?

Funny? Was 'Trinity' funny? How about 'Grace Under Pressure'? They were both very serious and rather dark in their own way. DH has a wonderful ability to do comedy and McKay's unnecessarily dramatic complaints are amusing - he can be light relief but his feature episodes (with the exception of 'Duet') tend to look at the more serious side of him.

Why don't we have an episode where Ronan has to share his body with someone else and walks around apparently talking to himself (heck, might develop him into some sort of character more than the bully of a jerk who does little more than sneer at other people while waving his gun in their face)

I think 'Sateda' and 'Progeny' did a good job of that. We got a good look at the good man he used to be and his 'Where we come from, we look out for our friends' line in Progeny was quite revealing as to how his state of mind had changed.

and we have a serious episode that puts McKay in a more dire situation akin to Sateda. (Again, there is Grace Under Pressure, but to an extent, that episode was still funny in it's own respect--though, IMO, considerably more hitting the mark than the cruetly and cringeworthiness of this episode and Duet.)

I certainly did not find GUP funny in the slightest. He was panicking, terrified and falling apart. It was wonderfully tense and good insight into Rodney at the utter limits of his mental tolerance, but not 'funny'.

This episode wasn't cruel or cringeworthy, it was realistic. It's not always easy to watch because we like it when things are a buddy-buddy between our team and everyone's being nice to one another. But that's not reality. And certainly not when you've got someone like Rodney around.

I mean, after two and a half years on Atlantis, McKay is still the McKay of 48 hours, and still awkward with the team--despite everything that's happened.

Having watched 48 Hours recently, Rodney is definitely a different man - but he's still Rodney. He's snarky, prickly and doesn't get on all that well with people. And he'll probably always be like that. But his actions in the last 3 years have shown how much he's changed.

I also think I was more irritated with Sheppard with his participating in the juvenile back-biting, mean-spiritedness of laughing at McKay behind his back; I expect that behavior from Ronon, and I've long since given up hope that Teyla's diplomatic skills and ability to sympathize with even wraith-turned-humans could not extend to McKay.

Forgetting how she backed Rodney up last episode when Carson was wondering what he was doing rallying the troops? In fact she's often more tolerant of him than others.

But there's been such great indication in the past that there was shared commonality between McKay and Sheppard, even though it was never actually acknowledged (which was what was sort of great about it). I love the moment in Before I Sleep when they're sitting in the exact same position going over rooms in Atlantis...or the Defiant One with Weir's comment about "how could either of you resist a crashed Wraith ship"...or the only moment in Irresistible I liked, their short discussion of who had played Catwoman in the original Batman. Great little, hey, we actually are kind of similar moments. Which has been what made their interaction so great in the past. So in this episode, I found myself disliking the golfing scene when he was talking bad about McKay to "Rod." Can Sheppard really not see that McKay has changed??

They have an antagonistic friendship. You don't always have to like someone to 'love' them and this is a good example. They irritate and pick at each other, they have their geeky moments of shared delight, they're combative and competative. But when the chips are down they'd do anything to save the other.

Earlier on you were adament that McKay hadn't changed since 48 Hours...

I don't think anyone would deny that Sheppard sees McKay as a friend but he also puts up with a lot of his faults and certainly isn't blind to them.

I also felt a little too much like everything in McKay's life that has gone wrong must be his fault--especially in regards to his sister.

But most of it IS his fault and that's kind of the point. The guy is a genius and gets virtually everything right in his professional life. His personal life is meant to be that total contrast - he does screw up quite badly yet is not prepared to take the blame. That's why this episode was important. He was always adament that the fault lay with his sister but comes to realise that he was the one to blame.

You know, it's not really out of the realm of possibility for a genre television show to successfully combine the metaphysical aspects with legitimate character development; BSG, ST;DS9, heck even SG1 to an extent, have all demonstrated that. Though this far into the series, I no longer have that much hope for Atlantis.

Considering we're eight episodes in and have already seen lasting development for Rodney and Ronon which was touched on in a following episode, that is rather unfair. TPTB have also said they are aware that they haven't done as much character development as they should and are making steps to rectify that. It's unfair to write them off before the end of the season.

This was a great episode for character development. It took the 'everyday' Rodney we see and gave us greater insight into why he is like that and that he can change. I don't think he's going to be all sweetness and light from here on in - nor do I want him to be! Just because he is reconciled with his sister doesn't mean he'll lose his arrogance or snark. That's too ingrained in him to ever change I think. But at least we have seen how he can be.