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**eyecandylovr** · 20 August 2006, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by snoopoony

I found the episode rather interesting. I know the story has been used already, but all stories have, and on other shows than Stargate. I think it's a fake argument. The only thing that matters when you watch a movie, a TV show or even when you read a book, is not to find a story that is original, because it's very rare, the onyl interesting thing to look at is the way the story is handled. At least, that's what I think.

ITA. I must say I'm so sick of the "that story's been done before" line I wanna scream. THERE ARE NO NEW STORIES, folks. Read any Shakespeare? We've been doing variations on his stories for the last 400 years, and he took them himself from even earlier sources. As for sci-fi, you have dozens of talented writers who have written hundreds or thousands of stories over the years. Once again, THERE ARE NO NEW STORIES. Only variations on old ones.

I loved this ep - the acting, seeing Weir in a different setting. In my mind, that's how you learn about a character. Back to Shakespeare, his method of fleshing out characters was to show the same person from different viewpoints, in different situations. It's not collecting facts, it's seeing different facets.

My 2 cents.

**eyecandylovr** · 20 August 2006, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Peanutbutter

Just popping in to propose possible answers to a few questions that have been asked in this thread (though it has pretty much all become a blur at this point so I can't directly quote them).

"Why didn't the nanites spread to Teyla and Ronon?" From what I can recall, neither of them actually touched Niam's flesh (just his sleeves). It could be that direct contact is required.

"How did fake!Jack know about hockey?" The world that Elizabeth was in was something created by the Nanites from the information they extracted from her brain (I'm assuming). Possibly the hockey information was in her subconscious (something she had picked up in passing) but not retained in her conscious thoughts -- therefore the Nanites could access the information but she wasn't aware of it.

"Why didn't the Nanites kill Elizabeth like the ones in Hot Zone killed the expedition members?" The Asurans have been evolving since the Ancients left for Earth and the samples in the lab have not. It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to believe they have changed their methods in that time.

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode, though I do agree the ending/resolution was rather rushed and some answers seemed more convenient than logical. Probably my biggest issue has already been mentioned -- what were they trying to accomplish by making her think Atlantis wasn't real? Pretty important question not to have answered, I know, but I suppose I'll try not to think too hard on it.

Excellent acting by Torri -- and she really is getting more beautiful by the minute.

Great answers, and I agree with your points!

I just wanted to add - I have the impression that part of the reason Elizabeth was infected and no one else was was that Niam had been reset, meaning the aggression had been added back into his programming, and I think he had intent to infect her. Remember how the Asurans took a 10,000 year old betrayal (not well) and Niam had commented that he saw compassion in Elizabeth. So of course if he feels betrayed, he will feel the most betrayed by her. Therefore, she's the one he physically attacks as soon as he's reset, and I believe he had the intention of infecting her, but never touched anyone else at all (as far as I can remember), and certainly not with that intent.

**A.L.** · 20 August 2006, 08:44 PM

As expected there's so many wonderfully different views on this epi. I for one enjoyed it. Yes, it had its plot holes, and yes, it dragged a moment or two - most epi's do I've noticed - but I still enjoyed it. And yes, I'm a Shep/Weir shipper but even besides that I thought we saw some great team moments, everyone wanting to help in anyway they can, and frustrated when they couldn't. Plus, we got to learn some stuff about Lizzie, backstory is always good even if it's only a little. And we got Action!Lizzie. Very cool. I love our peaceful diplomat but I like knowing that she'll do what she has to when the situation calls for it.

And I thought this was full of Shep/Weir goodness. Sure, my vision may be skewed because of my preference but I thought it was well done. I was very happy.

And I've got a good feeling about Common Ground. Yeah, I know, previews can be misleading but you've got Kolya and Atlantis facing off again. The Storm/The Eye are two of my favorite epi's. This has got to be fun.

AL

**RoryJ** · 20 August 2006, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by doylefan22

I'd probably call it more a character study.

I agree; that's a much better description of this episode. And I want more, more, more! I really love how every character seems to be getting an episode mostly to themselves this year! *waits for Teyla's

*

Originally posted by ironic

I've watched it like two and a half times already. *hangs head in shame* Yes, that is slightly pathetic. It's just so good, though!

I've watched it three times already. Don't feel bad.

**Ronnikins** · 21 August 2006, 01:19 AM

I can understand why this episode has polarised opinions. It's not the usual Sifi episode with spaceships, aliens or CGI effects. If one is not a great fan of Weir either, then, yes, this episode wouldn't hold one's interest.

Personally, this ranks as one of my favourite episodes for SGA. It was character driven and had a X-File-ish feel to it (I loved that show).
Everything has been said already and far more eloquently by other posters, so all I want to say is a big thank you to Carl Binder for writing a believable story for a female character. Who said men can't write for women? Carl Binder can write for Weir and Teyla any day in my books. Paul Ziller, first time SG director I think? Great direction, the whole episode had an atmospheric creepiness to it.
Lastly, kudos to Torri Higginson for a brilliant bit of acting showing an emotionally vulnerable yet resilient Weir. She made the character more 3-dimensional with this episode.

TPTB promised more character interaction in Season 3 and they have delivered it with all the episodes seen so far. I liked how the episode showed the close bonds of friendship between Sheppard and Weir. He would do anything to save her (and any other team member...just to clarify) and she trusted him enough to follow him in her dream world. Shipping is all in the eyes of the beholder, so it's really a matter of interpretation but there's no denying the close friendship being forged between the two.

This is just a personal opinion so I won't bother going into any debate if anybody disagrees

**snoopoony** · 21 August 2006, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by doylefan22

That's the only part of your post I'd disagree with.

I personally don't see anything particularly shippy between Sheppard and Weir, mainly because I don't really see how he acts any differently towards her than he does the others. I like their interaction and I think they have a good working relationship and a rather funny brother/sister teasing type thing going on. Just no romance there. His actions in The Real World didn't stand out as shippy because, yes, he would have done that for anyone - he wouldn't have behaved any differently if it was Teyla, Rodney or Ronon in that situation. He's just that kinda guy.

Not wanting to start shipping arguements (heaven forbid!) or anything. I can see why the shippers could say that it was shippy, but I also don't think it was undeniably so and I didn't think anyone diminished the moment by saying that - they just didn't see it that way.

The reason why I think John was one talking to her was because, to be honest, he's actually rather useless in that situation. There's little he can practically do and John doesn't like standing around and doing nothing so he does what he can. Ronon is always a man of few words and so I could understand why he was so silent. Teyla - well my pet peeve of the episode was that she didn't get involved more.

Rodney's reaction was totally him. He didn't stand there fretting because when things are bad he falls back on his science - it's something he can deal with, something he can do and something he can lose himself in. He was clearly frustrated and snippy when things weren't going well and excited and pleased when they were. That's Rodney - he's just not very good at showing emotions in other ways. Carson was his usual calm, rational but honest self. I don't think he ever gave up on her but he's not one to sugar coat the situation - he tells it like it is.

I see your points! But I guess we'll never agree on what's shippy or not. So, I'd say we leave it to that

Anyway, I like your analysis of Rodney and I surely and totally agree. It's just that most of the characters' reactions were a bit... well... unseen, as far as the screen time of the characters is concerned. I mean, we barely see them... That's the only negative point I could make about the episode. And still I think TPTB could have made Carson say other things than 'We're losing her' every five minutes

Didn't I say it already? I love your sig. It's very nice.

**LoveYouBaby** · 21 August 2006, 03:15 AM

Hello everybody, long time no respond from me, been busy in Los Angeles!

Anyho, I thought this episode was performed magnificently, especially by Tori. Boy, was she good in this episode!!! She gave the character (Weir) such depth and punch, a 9er! =D

**PegasusPrincess** · 21 August 2006, 05:29 AM

I was suprised by how much I liked this episode as I'm usually a bit of a 'gimme action' type.
Loved the character building of Weir, and showing the growing friendship, respect and bond between the main characters. It was nice to see Sheppard in a situation that wasn't military but he'd still risk his life to try and save someone he cares about.
Torri's acting abilities were really showed well in this ep.
8/10

**Ragnarok13** · 21 August 2006, 07:03 AM

this wasnt my favorite episode. i didnt hate it but i didnt enjoy it like i did 200. it seems like every season there an ep where some one goes crazy or is living in a dream world, or is it just me? i was happy to see the guy from ferris buelers day off doing stuff again. doesnt he have a movie coming out soon? i think the writers made a twilight zone referance in this episode. wiloughby was both the name of the hospital and an episode of TZ in which a overworked businessman has dreams on a train of a pre civil war town called wiloughby.he keeps trying to stay in wiloughby but he cant. at the end he is able to stay in wiloughby, but in real life he jumps of the train and dies. the ambulance the takes the body is from wiloughby hospital. soooo yeah

**wams352** · 21 August 2006, 07:52 AM

In a word: bleah. I am not a fan of Torri/Weir at all. I thought SGA was getting interesting again this season but this was just a drippy episode for me. And all those medical/science people available in Atlantis and the ONLY ones standing outside the tent are Carson, McKay, Ronan, Teyla & Shep?

And I love RDA but I thought his acting was a bit stiff in both this and in 200?? Don't flay me for that comment please

**RoryJ** · 21 August 2006, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by wams352

And I love RDA but I thought his acting was a bit stiff in both this and in 200?? Don't flay me for that comment please

Even though he did the show for so long, it still must've felt a bit awkward coming back into the fold for 200. And as for TRW - it really wasn't him, so I took that stiff/awkward vibe as intentional to show that not all was as it seemed.

**LoneStar1836** · 21 August 2006, 09:40 AM

I liked this episode. Not loved….just liked. Rather dragged there for the first half.

I appreciated the episode more for the acting and directing. Not so much for the writing which is a shame because Carl Binder wrote this one so I was expecting good things when I read his name in the credits. I’m not really a fan of Weir, but I like character episodes when they are done well so focusing on one character isn’t a problem for me (The Changeling and Forever in a Day are two of my all-time favorite SG-1 episodes. Though it took several viewings for me to appreciate both of them.), but this still wasn’t quite the story I was looking for. Torri did a fine job so props to her.

Nice job by RDA as well. (I’m one of those that thought he was phoning it in in S8.

) And nice work by whoever directed this one.

**Royal_Nonesuch** · 21 August 2006, 10:10 AM

I quite enjoyed this episode. I thought it was written and directed quite well and contained some very creepy moments. Torri did an excellent job selling the hauntings. I thought the cut aways to Atlantis were very effective--the pacing didn't bother me. I loved all the Jack and Weir scenes. They have a great repartee and his presence made the fantasy land much more interesting which reminds me of the fantasizing quote from Jack--great stuff.

I'm glad the SG writers are willing to do episodes like these. While the action and snarkiness of a typical episode is fantastic, episodes like these are crucial in making characters more human. Without that, it would be difficult to care for them in the other perilous situations they are invloved in.

Originally posted by rarocks24

RDA being in it, was I the only one to pick up on another ship (Jack/Weir), and then the more obvious ship of (Weir/John). Anyways, this episode was good, and did manage to frighten me a bit (the mystery thing raising up in her bed and through the hospital curtains was very creepy). All in all, whilst not the best episode, was a decent enough episode that I'll give it a 7 or 8.

You definitely were not. I noticed it quite clearly (although I do enjoy Jack/Liz in the first place). I think the nanites recognized that Liz had a lot of respect for Jack and a possible thing for him--otherwise why not send Landry, Daniel or even a repro-Shep? (ignoring the reality factor that RDA was available lol). I think the Repli!Jack was very friendly with liz--trying to make her stay possibly? All of their moments seemed "close" but I particularly liked the scene where Jack comes to ask Liz to return to her UN work, she calls him "general" and he insists on being called "Jack" and Elizabeth coyly responds "which Jack?"--very cute. The other moment was when they were about to enter the negotiations and Jack references Hockey and Liz repsonds "I don't know anything about football". He replied "Or Hockey apparently". Too bad it was all repli.

I'll stop there and take the rest to the Jack/Liz ship thread lol.

Overall a strong episode with some very un-Gate like elements that were refreshing, a 9/10

Royal

**BubblingOverWithIdeas** · 21 August 2006, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by smushybird

Eh. It was pretty in-your-face. It put me off, anyway.

Well, while there have been attraction moments between Sheppard and Weir in the past, I didn't see anything in this episode that didn't fit in the near and dear friend/close as family category.

P.S,
PG-15, Peanutbutter, and Eyecandylover made good points.

**vaberella** · 21 August 2006, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Snork

So Cameron from Ferris Bueller is Fletcher.

Apparently, so far he was the only real plus with this ep. I kept having Bueller flash backs.

Originally posted by RoryJ

I'm seeing an even split between calling this "backstory" and calling it "development". I say it was the first one more, but I feel Elizabeth will still progress from this ep. I just hope there's not a case of the reset button on this or it will be a waste of a fantastically written and beatifully acted episode.

Backstory to me doesn't speak of only let's say someone's history, I want to see what their reactions would be in a situation and why. And backstory is development, because the character would not be the character without this background information which led to it's current development. There was no progression of the character---for the character to progress some more. It was just there. There's no added essence, there wasn't anything that was missing before that's been cleared up, it's just an episode. It's like Irresistable really----no purpose and no reason...beyond the fact that we know that our white blood cells can take on the nanites and all we need is the power of self (where is Depak Chopra when you need him) to overcome. Lame-o! It's a rather corny concept which wasn't even really expanded well, when it could be.

Originally posted by RoryJ

(and ITA with comparing this to an episode of X-Files; that show had a ton of episodes that were very slow and quiet, but it still held my attention for the psycho-drama, which I feel TRW is)

I'll assume your speaking to my post, since I'm the ONLY one to compare to X-Files; a few others compared it to Buffy. I compared it to one X-Files ep, not the entire series, clearly stated in my post. When Mulder went nutty and had to get lobotomy, that was bloody fantastic and it was hard core. Of course it was so intense they needed 2 episodes for it. But that's the point, this should have been someething really emotionally taxing.

I don't see being able to use the internet and pretty much walk freely, or not being watched to swallow the meds, as being emotionally taxing. Actually the main time I saw something was when she was told that Simon died and when they gave her, her dad's pocket watch. Overall, it wasn't very emotional.