Why does it seem like everybody is starting to hate Atlantis?

[MarshAngel]

As a fan you cannot always ignore that, and really on a Forum dedicated to the shows you will always get large amounts of people who are down on the shows and episodes as well as characters.

On non-SG related forums it is often different and I have found myself defending the show! Even The Tower.

By the way I hear a lot of SG-1 fans complaining about that show as well.

The truth is, if we didn't love the show and care about its direction we would turn off the TV, leave the forum, and not bother to discuss it at all. When you have an opportunity to vent freely about aspects of something you love you do so. And when you feel you're among friends you don't curb your emotions to suit anyone, and I don't see any reason we should, bar being actually rude to someone.

Atlantis is a good show. It proved that much in its first season. The problem is the second season, as I see it, didn't live up to the promises of the first. Many successful shows have a rough first season and improve continuously until they hit their peak. They all have rough spots, but when you sit back to examine the show as a whole, like we can with SG1 what we often see is the first season charming with promise and more than a few stumbling blocks followed by second season that fulfills some of those promises and shows growth.

I haven't seen that growth in the second season. In season one they had a lot on their plate so the promise of character development, exploration etc. was understandably put off until season two. Now it's over and the promise hasn't been fulfilled. The delay has been too long, particularly since what we got in exchange for what we expected, after the fact doesn't seem worth the sacrifice.

It's strange really. On some level they seem to be following parts of the SG1 formula to the shows detriment and abandoning some of the better aspects of it to the same end.

[Luz]

The truth is, if we didn't love the show and care about its direction we would turn off the TV, leave the forum, and not bother to discuss it at all.

This is so true, i used to be a fan of SG1, but i don't frecuent any SG1 threads here. Mainly because during season eight i got fed up with it and quit watching, period. I don't like it anymore, i don't watch it anymore, so i don't discuss it at all.
Oaky, so maybe i sometimes stil talk about how O'neil got on my nerves, but that's just about it .

[Ouroboros]

I'm not up to hating it just yet but I also won't lie about what I think of it. In a nutshell it's a show that's pretty much left me dissapointed from the start.

What I mean is, when I watch a show like Farscape or BSG or Firefly I'm never left thinking "Why did they resolve that in such a cheap/stupid/lame way, it would have been so much better had X happened instead! It was right there guys, how did you miss it!".

There might be situations that will come up in those other shows where I would have maybe liked a certain chracter not to die or whatever but I can always respect why certain things were done the way they were and they always end up cool or clever in their own way.

With Atlantis I get the feeling that a lot of punches are getting pulled for no reason other than writer cowardice or lack of imagination/fear of offending someone.

Take instinct for example. It could have been a revolutionary episode if they'd kept with the whole "what do we do with this tame Wraith" idea they had going and just resolved that. Instead they copped out to turn her into a monster to avoid having to have the characters make a difficult choice. IE writer cowardice. Were they afraid we wouldn't get it? Were they afraid we wouldn't be able to handle Shep or them choosing to kill her anyway? Did they just not want to show them choosing that because it paints our cliched heros in a bad light?

Then look at seige III. "Oh no we have a huge problem that's been built up for 3 episodes. Oh wait it's no real problem at all. I'll just cloak the city and the wraith will fly away like idiots on their own". CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP.

These aren't the only examples to be made either.

It's like everytime in Atlantis when a good bit of suspense or expectation gets built up by the story the resolution always gets botched. You start to think "how will they ever get out of this one" and then the answer is technobabble, plot induced enemy stupidity, some ridiculously convienient story event that comes at just the right time to help them, or some combination of all three. It's like getting all excited for Christmas morning as a kid and then opening your present to find a pair of socks. All your anticipation just gets squashed and you feel bitter rather than looking back fondly on the moment.

[Steve_the_Wraith]

I appreciate your comments on the "Korean" thing, and they are valid. And I do hope that the writers do take a look at what we all are posting.

My bottom line would be that the writers do take a serious look as to what the viewers are thinking. In reality, it has become "our" show and not just "their" show, if you follow my drift.

I would much prefer to be more positive on my comments; perhaps it is the "critic" within me (including my own works) that motivates me to want to see things be the best they can be, that we do not receive a product that failed because of poor writing, direction, and acting. I truly would like to see Atlantis continue for several seasons.

I have to disagree. The show belongs to all the people who put the work into getting it made, the cast, the crew, the writers, the directors and the producers put a lot of work into trying to produce a show they think is good.

The idea that fans "own" a show is kind of ridiculous, it leads to nothing but fans gripping about how the show isn't following their expectations. People are more than entitled to their opinions but if you don't like a show stop watching - don't spend your time complaining about how "your" show was ruined

[ShadowMaat]

People are more than entitled to their opinions but if you don't like a show stop watching - don't spend your time complaining about how "your" show was ruined

I'll start off by saying that I'm speaking in generalities here, but Steve's post made a good launching point:

The road runs in both directions: If you don't like a thread, stop reading. *shrug* Just as a show doesn't have to conform to the demands of individual fans, threads don't have to conform to their demands, either.

If you think a thread is stupid, if you can't see the point of it, if you disagree with everything being said then instead of going through and trashing the thread and trashing the people in it and trashing the whole point of view... find a different thread. No one is FORCING you to read this and reply any more than anyone is being forced to watch the show.

[prion]

I have to disagree. The show belongs to all the people who put the work into getting it made, the cast, the crew, the writers, the directors and the producers put a lot of work into trying to produce a show they think is good.

The idea that fans "own" a show is kind of ridiculous, it leads to nothing but fans gripping about how the show isn't following their expectations. People are more than entitled to their opinions but if you don't like a show stop watching - don't spend your time complaining about how "your" show was ruined

Hmm, that kind of complaining has been going on since season six, at least, and I remember fans getting livid, even before that, over th shade of Sam's lipstick. Ah, for the inane days of the 'lipstick wars'.

But there are fans who do think that they're entitled to see xxxx whatever on the show. Part of that problem came in part from (dodging flames) producers come on to boards and telling us what we'd get and 'Oh, you're going to love this as it's very shippy" or "very whatever". I like it a lot better when TPTB lurk on a list as the discussion is then with fans, and not with fans kissing up to TPTB.

But yes, people can dislike a show or character. However, it gets annoying when they beat the drumn constantly over how bad something is, and it's not just one thread, but several.

[Steve_the_Wraith]

I'll start off by saying that I'm speaking in generalities here, but Steve's post made a good launching point:

The road runs in both directions: If you don't like a thread, stop reading. *shrug* Just as a show doesn't have to conform to the demands of individual fans, threads don't have to conform to their demands, either.

If you think a thread is stupid, if you can't see the point of it, if you disagree with everything being said then instead of going through and trashing the thread and trashing the people in it and trashing the whole point of view... find a different thread. No one is FORCING you to read this and reply any more than anyone is being forced to watch the show.

The difference in this case though is that this is a forum - somewhere where ideas/opinions are posted specifically for people to discuss openly

[Klenotka]

I don´t think so. I love SGA. I have to admit that 1s was better than 2s (and better than s8 of SG1) but which show has all seasons great? Everwhere are some people who complain (especially fans who desperately wait for new season to begin). There are lots of people who don´t watch SGA only because "there isn´t Jack" which is stupid reason. And I am afraid that these people who have never seen it or saw one or two episodes criticize the most.

[MarshAngel]

And I am afraid that these people who have never seen it or saw one or two episodes criticize the most.

And your evidence for this would be?

Granted, I don't frequent "Anti" or "Pro" threads but the most vocal complaints I've come across have been from those who've seen each episode completely and give quite a detailed account of what they did and did not like, examining each episode on its own merit. I've never seen anyone complain about hating SGA because RDA isn't in it. Even if he were still on SG1 what reason would there be for him to be on Atlantis and why would anyone expect that? It's a completely different show.

It's almost insulting to have valid issues reduced to baseless generalisms and far reaching assumptions about how those who complain about the show think and what they want.

It's intriguing to me, that if a person makes a complaint no one notices the positive remarks they make about what they did like or what they're not sure about. People only notice the negative remarks and suddenly that's all a person is about and they are suddenly lumped into a group of supposed haters who don't bother to watch and just pull random issues out of the air to feed their hatred and how much they miss RDA (who incidentally, I don't miss that much).

This is akin to buying a vacuum cleaner everyone loves, finding a problem with it, making a suggestion for changes on the company website, only to be told that everyone else liked it and you just don't like vacuum cleaners so suck it up and be quiet. ...... i need a new vacuum.

[ShadowMaat]

ALMOST insulting? No, it's definitely insulting.

And Steve, I'm not talking about discussing opinions I'm talking about people telling other people what they can and can't post, implying that a person's opinion is worth less because of what they're saying, or otherwise degrading and attacking the PEOPLE instead of the opinions.

One of the biggest problems I've seen on this forum are people coming into threads like this and not simply saying, "I disagree and here's why..." but "You're wrong and you have no right to post such lies!" Oh, and incidentally...

The difference in this case though is that this is a forum - somewhere where ideas/opinions are posted specifically for people to discuss openly

Doesn't that mean discussing the NEGATIVE as well as the positive? If it's a truly open discussion, shouldn't people be allowed to express their views no matter what they may be?

And yet, people post complaints about the show and you (and quite a few others) tell them to stop watching. Which, whether you intend it or not, is the same as saying "shut up" because if people aren't watching then they have nothing to complain about and no reason to post, right?

How about letting folks express their views WITHOUT telling them what to do? Give people even the tiniest modicum of intelligence to make decisions for themselves and to be able to decide FOR THEMSELVES when to draw the line and stop watching the show.

[Arative]

One problem is that when people post opinions they tend to think that everyone shares their opinion. People will post something like the majority of poeple think xxx sucked, when infact its more like the majority of people they talk to think xxx sucked. Or something like everyone I know says xxx sucked and I'm like great for all I know you only know 2 people.

Another problem is that people who are negative tend to be a lot more vocal than people who are positive. That's just human nature.

If you really look at things, Gateworld represents about 1% of the total viewing population of both stargates (using rounded numbers). So out of that 1%, maybe 5% are posting negative things about stargates. It just seems like more because again negativity is more vocal. People who are negative need to scream the loudest to be heard so they can try and drag other people down into their negativity. Which is one reason I avoid the anti threads like the plague.

Another thing, no one opinions are right or wrong but I can certainly think someone has a wrong opinion and try to presuade them why I think its wrong. Thats called debating! And debating is actually quite refreshing when its in a civilized manner.

[ShadowMaat]

The negative also tends to be more memorable than the positive, so even if there are dozens and dozens of threads talking about how wonderful everything is, the small handful of negative threads take the flak for "turning the entire board into a big b****fest!"

Debate is wonderful. Shoving your opinion down someone's throat and demanding that they accept it as fact is not.

[wolverine_nl]

ShadowMaat, you are one hell of a opinion-defender

Me personally don't like the title of this thread, because it assumes that the viewpoint of the original poster is the same as others. It's incorrect in my book. It's implying that "everybody" really is everybody, while this isn't true.
I like both series, i have some points about them, but i try to see a bigger picture and not look at the dots etc.

[prion]

One problem is that when people post opinions they tend to think that everyone shares their opinion. People will post something like the majority of poeple think xxx sucked, when infact its more like the majority of people they talk to think xxx sucked. Or something like everyone I know says xxx sucked and I'm like great for all I know you only know 2 people.

Another problem is that people who are negative tend to be a lot more vocal than people who are positive. That's just human nature.

If you really look at things, Gateworld represents about 1% of the total viewing population of both stargates (using rounded numbers). So out of that 1%, maybe 5% are posting negative things about stargates. It just seems like more because again negativity is more vocal. People who are negative need to scream the loudest to be heard so they can try and drag other people down into their negativity. Which is one reason I avoid the anti threads like the plague.

Another thing, no one opinions are right or wrong but I can certainly think someone has a wrong opinion and try to presuade them why I think its wrong. Thats called debating! And debating is actually quite refreshing when its in a civilized manner.

To sum it up, the squeaky wheel gets noticed.

It is more fun to play in the 'squee' threads because people are having fun, although you can (not always) get some interesting conversations in anti- threads but it's nice if folks use logic (not always) when arguing their points.

[lissa1000]

Does anyone else think it's ironic that the people complaining about the negativity are so hostile? Sheppard isn't real. He isn't being hurt by my complaints. When you are rude to real people on this board, someone is getting hurt. Why not let people have their opinions? There are plenty of pro threads to keep you busy.