Michael (218)

[vaberella]

That's really reaching to explain it all away and if the writing is good we shouldn't have to try to come up with an explanation of anything the writers didn't intend to leave a mystery and there's no mystery here just plot holes they didn't bother to cover and mistakes the make over and over again.

If he's been around for a significant length of time, picking up these human characteristics we should know that, see that, otherwise it's fair to assume it never happened. There should have been an adjustment period to clear it up.

The episode may still be entertaining if you ignore the glaringly obvious but it's unfortunate that we should have to at all.

Episode after episode now the writers wash right over the details in favor of the overall plot. Details matter though.

I agree with you completely. But maybe they just assumed that people would pick up on that. That's the impression I was given when I saw the ep..that he was there for a significant amount of time. While unconcious..imagine what that does to your body? We realize that the chang takes time too...although rapid. Even on the Alpha site I thought they were there for at least a week before he broke theh bonds..

I mean to first be taken against your well and then there's primary injection, especially when it was never tested on another person..and then there's all the monitoring after the first initial dosage and watching the body and making studies on how it affects the cells..and then we have a second dosage and donig that. Then we have the fact on some level he was probably sedated..I mean that would also play a role. Again projecting my own thoughts on what the medical team would do. But it just seemed like something Beckett would do, not only because he's a doctor but because he's also a scientists and tests and books and all these things need to be consulted.

Past cells, the Iratus bug backlog. I mean you can tell he was not sleeping much in that scene where Michael takes the disks and the computer. We can establish that he's been up day and night trying to get all the information. They do sort of say Day 1, Day 3 on the disks ..but that wouldnt' have made sense to me either; unless of course he means each Day to be, each day there was physical change---which would make sense. But then this is where TPTB went wrong and I wont' even deny it.

But I understand their point...it's not like we can sit there and go through the whole story and detail the whole scene, from the capturing and of course to the moments in time as each injection was administered. But it could hav ebeen better done in teh show. I see that and I agree with it..but I also see their point.

But lately I've been having bones to pick with TPTB's wishy washiness on these things....it's a mess..maybe they'll rectify the situation in next season eps...

But I put it down to weeks and months and those days listed as the days of physical perceptual change. And all that makes sense to me..and I take it as it is. Although I do see your recriminations and problems, good ep though.

VB

[spg_1983]

Okay. I just didn't think the ********'s were neccessary.

Hey you call a rose a rose and you call a pile of **** a pile of ****.

[vaberella]

Never thought I would say this.....but....Ronon was the only one that had any sense at all in this episode.

Actually it was Ronon, Teyla, and John. But keep in mind though John takes orders from whom? And I'm sure that there were plenty of arguments on his part. Didn't you see when John said certain things weren't a good idea..but they were pretty much dismissed. And Teyla was against this..you get that later on in

Spoiler:

Allies

although I do feel you can definitely see in the scene with Michael that she was being puppeteered. The words didn't seem like they were really coming from her.

And dont' get me wrong..I love the girl and strongly believe she has a strong mind and thoroughly know she put up a fight..cause I knwo she wouldn't want to see any Wraith at 10 feet near her..remember her nightmares in "The Gift" But she is part of a team and has no control over Atlantis and it's doings. And unfortunately you don't see that she had problems with it..until it's mentioned, again in

Spoiler:

Allies

. But John looked just hard pressed about the situation...poor guy! I mean as a military man he of all people would know this was a crap idea...

But then who's on his head..so what's he supposed to do. Murphy's Law would tell me..'worst case scenario' and we all know that John as a military official only thinks in that way and then moves into doing what he has to do under his CO.

VB

[vaberella]

Hey you call a rose a rose and you call a pile of **** a pile of ****.

hey dude I have no qualms..although I would love if you could expound on them a bit so I can really read into the problems...And all opinions are welcome..so go ahead. Rant and Rave....

[ShadowMaat]

Someone really needs to hide the stupid pills that the people of Atlantis are addicted to 'cause pretty soon our various enemies won't have to lift a finger to conquer us, we'll destroy ourselves out of sheer idiocy.

[Weir'sRedShirt]

Someone really needs to hide the stupid pills that the people of Atlantis are addicted to 'cause pretty soon our various enemies won't have to lift a finger to conquer us, we'll destroy ourselves out of sheer idiocy.

Amen to that.

[spg_1983]

hey dude I have no qualms..although I would love if you could expound on them a bit so I can really read into the problems...And all opinions are welcome..so go ahead. Rant and Rave....

Ok lets start with the idea of transforming "Micheal" in the first place. We can't cure the common cold but Becket can design a retro virus that can convert DNA? Forget the Wraith, they need to get Becket working on AIDS and Cancer, he'll have them worked out in a fortnight. The very idea is laughable. The biological impossibilities are staggering. Like Micheals teeth. The Wraith teeth are sharp and very pointy. Yet the magic virus can convert pure enamel into normal perfect human teeth? Even assuming for a moment that the virus somehow penetrated the teeth, which is impossible, where did the extra matter to make the new tooth come from?

Now lets talk about the memory thing. He is supposed to have no memory of being human because he never was, yet he can work a human computer, under stands earth expressions, has earth manners, etc.

The ethical irresponsiblity is staggering as well. Aside from the fact that they are basically commiting speciecide, they are violating everything we as humans are supposed to stand for. This course of action makes them no better than the wraith!

There is so much more with this storyline but I will type it later I don't feel like going into it right now.

[CalmStorm]

Actually it was Ronon, Teyla, and John. But keep in mind though John takes orders from whom? And I'm sure that there were plenty of arguments on his part. Didn't you see when John said certain things weren't a good idea..but they were pretty much dismissed.

John seemed uncomfortable with telling "Michael" the truth and letting him out of the infirmary....that is the only thing that he seemed to express was not a good idea. I could not tell with absolute certainty that he was against the idea in its entirety, only with how to proceed with the situation.

The impression I rec'd from Teyla was that she was only uncomfortable lying to Michael, but seemed certain that him becoming and staying human was in his best interest.

[MarshAngel]

Someone really needs to hide the stupid pills that the people of Atlantis are addicted to 'cause pretty soon our various enemies won't have to lift a finger to conquer us, we'll destroy ourselves out of sheer idiocy.

So true. Thus far, the wraith haven't even had to do anything for us to put ourselves at risk. Honestly, if they ever saw an episode of the show they would sit back and just wait, since the brilliant people of Atlantis are going to one day trip and hit the self destruct button.... but only after trusting their lives to complete strangers who've already proven themselves untrustworthy, thereby eliminating half the population through sheer stupidity. It's been their tried and true method so far in Pegasus.

Whenever possible, trust strange people.

Keep your enemies close ... but don't bother watching them too closely.

Don't watch your back or make sure anyone's looking over your shoulder thereby letting any idiot know exactly where you are and have been.

Lie badly but believe everything others say.

Make assumptions.... often.

[vaberella]

John seemed uncomfortable with telling "Michael" the truth and letting him out of the infirmary....that is the only thing that he seemed to express was not a good idea. I could not tell with absolute certainty that he was against the idea in its entirety, only with how to proceed with the situation.

The impression I rec'd from Teyla was that she was only uncomfortable lying to Michael, but seemed certain that him becoming and staying human was in his best interest.

Yeah, I got that until I saw Allies....the cut from TPTB is awful. But when you see 'Allies'

Spoiler:

the comment was made by John that, he thought they were able to convince her that it was a good idea.

I've just been getting after Hot Zone that John has been a bit more reluctant to fight something he disagrees with..or he fights for it..but then again he's not in command. You see this a lot in 'Coup D'etat' He was completely against not trying to find out about Lorne...and having Teyla and Ronon do that investigation....but he was overruled and he did look upset, like he was biting his tongue from saying any more.

VB

[derrickh]

Is there any reason Weir shouldn't be removed as leader of Atlantis immediately? She's been a complete disaster this season.

D

[Weir'sRedShirt]

Is there any reason Weir shouldn't be removed as leader of Atlantis immediately? She's been a complete disaster this season.

D

I don't agree with that completely, but I will say she needs someone of equal standing that's a military officer right beside her. John's not enough, considering his orders come from her. Caldwell? Maybe, but the situation in "Critical Mass" didn't gain him a whole lot of trust in a lot of people's eyes.

Jeez, Weir needs some sleep, I think. War doesn't suit her; has she just abandoned her moral beliefs?

[vaberella]

Ok lets start with the idea of transforming "Micheal" in the first place. We can't cure the common cold but Becket can design a retro virus that can convert DNA? Forget the Wraith, they need to get Becket working on AIDS and Cancer, he'll have them worked out in a fortnight. The very idea is laughable. The biological impossibilities are staggering. Like Micheals teeth. The Wraith teeth are sharp and very pointy. Yet the magic virus can convert pure enamel into normal perfect human teeth? Even assuming for a moment that the virus somehow penetrated the teeth, which is impossible, where did the extra matter to make the new tooth come from?

I agree with this point. Beckett is almost God-like.

Now lets talk about the memory thing. He is supposed to have no memory of being human because he never was, yet he can work a human computer, under stands earth expressions, has earth manners, etc.

Okay well that's pretty explainable..first off there are psychiatrists that do play games with yoru mind while your unconcious. So I don't know how important of a role Heightmeyer played..another problem. And as for working a comp...pretty easy to explain as well as mannerism..it's just things you pick up on. Ever seen a clean slate---example a 2 year old child? They can sit ther eand watch you for liek 10 minutes and mimick you..they think what their doing is normal....and you just look at them copying you. I have my baby cousin just sitting there with the computer and the screen went black she said, 'Oh man that's to bad' And without ever using a lap top she seemed to know where to press a button. It's not rocket science here..and if you see people around using them..which I'm sure he did..Mckay..he probably was given a tour of the base and through watchign he mimicked...not too hard to explain that.

The ethical irresponsiblity is staggering as well. Aside from the fact that they are basically commiting speciecide, they are violating everything we as humans are supposed to stand for. This course of action makes them no better than the wraith!

I agree..you see that in Teyla's face when Michael said that...it was like she knew it was a bad idea..but sort of trying to defend Atlantis and what they did. It was disgusting for me as well to see that. My problem was also what do you think about bringing back a threat like that to your home base.

All I kept thinking in my head...and when I spoke to my net buddy about it, I had to ask her....how many people were at Atlantis and the mainland....she said about 1230..on average..an arbitrary number.

Okay, who ever agreed to kidnap a Wraith and bring it back to base 'worst case scenario' thrown out the window....I think John would hav esomething to say about that, but he agreed and all those invovled--all to blame, each at a certain level. You have just put the head of all 1230 people under your protection, under the guillotine.

I mean I have a problem with the species turning thing..my sister right now is complainign to me. She's like look 'I's like turning a hyena into a dog or or cat...it's a new species which can reproduce and mate. What's done is done---and they are on top of the food chain. What we do to animals is what they do to us..not to many vegetarians running around?'

But more to that..is that you take a threat back to your base when you pretty much saved your skin at first....they should have taken him to an empty base..they found that Alpha site idea right quick..didnt' they? They should have thought of that, IF they had to do the tests..to bring him there...

That is one of my biggest problems.

VB

[FoolishPleasure]

I Jeez, Weir needs some sleep, I think. War doesn't suit her; has she just abandoned her moral beliefs?

I've only seen the episode once, but I believe Beckett said he was the one who pushed hard for this experiment. Weir said she would take responsibility, as she was in charge and gave the go-ahead, but she trusts Carson and probably felt if he was comfortable, she was too. Sheppard didn't seem to have any problems with it to me either.

Agree with others that Ronon was really the only one who saw the light of day - when Michael discovered who he really was, he should have been eliminated, cold as that sounds.

[mckaychick]

yeah i agree michale should have been eliminated when he figured out what he was. no question