The Tower (215)

[NakedJehutyV2]

childhood's end is way before before i sleep. what other planets are on that list?

[tofuchef]

i got the episode.. and im about to watch it.. i'll be back to let you guys know if it was good.. sorry can't tell where i got it from.

[FallenAngelII]

ALso, the chamberlain said the puddle jumpers in the Tower stopped working long ago. They might have run out of fuel. That or the morons broke the damn things.

[tofuchef]

i've just watched it.. and its pretty interesting episode.. but there is no asgard or daedelus envolvement.. basically in the end we get drones and jumpers.. that is all..

[NakedJehutyV2]

It wasn't mentioned. I seem to remember them saying in The Brotherhood that the planet in that episode was their "best chance" at finding a ZPM from that list.


Um, if you fire drones while cloaked, you'll give away your position. The only way that would work is if you're moving; for example, say Shep was flying around in a PJ. If he fired some drones, then cloaked, then changed his postion, you have a decent tactic. Unfortunately the writers have probably figured that this tactic is way too useful for the good guys, which is probably why they haven't put it in the show.


The chair is just another way to interface with the systems on Atlantis. The difference is that it requires that you have the ATA gene to use, which is why weapons are connected to the chair, and not to the regular system controls; it keeps stupid people from potentially destroying themselves.


Uh, the Alterans were wiped out by a plague millions of years before the Wraith even evolved. I think you meant Lantians.


Sure, more will come. Then after you kill them, more will come, but there has to be a limit. Wraith reproduction is that limit. Once you're killing Wraith faster than they can reproduce, you win.

The problem is that it's considered uncouth to have the "good guys" wantingly committing genocide.
If you want to wipe out the Wraith, you have to also wipe out their women and children. Since they've already shown us that Wraith children are pretty innocent (they don't feed on humans until they reach puberty or so), that means they must come up with a way to defeat the Wraith without killing them all. So they introduce Beckett's super-serum, which changes Wraith into normal ol' humans.

It's the exact same thing as the symbiote extraction method invented in SG-1: It takes care of the "evil" Goa'uld, while leaving the "innocent" human alive and free.


Would you care to elaborate? I mean, making statements like that beg for examples, but you've just made a hit-and-run on this thread, leaving nothing that adds to the topic.

the lantians are the alterrans that left earth. it's unknown if lantians is the wraith given name or not. they're still the alterrans

[2ndgenerationalteran]

a new enemy would make sense, all the wraith are up and hungry and their herds are almost all anhilated because they ate them all, food shortage so they have to go canibal. its a matter of time

[gooner_diva]

How stupid of us, thinking that it's important to find that Atlantis has a sister city. [/sarcasm]

That's the whole point, isn't it? This discovery wasn't even treated as a something massive like "omg, look, we've found the exact copy of something we thought was cool and unique", not to meniton it severly diminishes the tactical and cultural importance of Atlantis now that we know there are who knows how many lying around.

Also, since the end of Season 6 of SG-1 they've been raving about the Lost City, how it must be found at all costs because it contains weapons, knowledge and technology to defeat Anubis. Then we discovered Atlantis. And now we've discovered another city just like it, lying on some crappy planet, run by complete idiots, with a working Z.P.M., drones, hyperdrive, everything. It looks as though Daniel dialled the wrong address in Rising. Or perhaps the real discovery would have been the manufacturing plant where they make these cities, Puddle Jumpers, Z.P.M.s. etc.

The Tower is the ultimate proof of how something gigantic can be wasted on a stand-alone episode. What a blow to those of us who actually care about continuity.

And no, it is NEVER acceptable for a USAF Lieutenant Colonel to be Kirking, even if the bint-of-the-week has the most amazing rack. I mean, who actually wants to see a testosterone-crazed flyboy as the leader of a military unit on the most important of Earth colonies? And no, "it provides a steady stream of hot women" doesn't count as an argument.

[ShadowMaat]

What a blow to those of us who actually care about continuity.

Oh, but didn't you hear? We're not allowed to care about continuity. It makes us anal and obnoxious when we should just sit back, turn our brains off, and enjoy the mindless fluff.

And if we do have any complaints? We should shut up and be grateful that there's any Atlantis at all for us to see.

Sorry, was I being sarcastic again?

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Yeah... there's so much wrong with that whole city-buried-for-ten-thousand-years-except-for-the-central-spire
-which-has-remained-intact-while-all-the-systems-in-the-buried-parts-are-still-working-despite-the-earthquakes
scenario that I hardly know where to start.

Then there's the carefully-kept-genelogical records for ten thousand years - on parchement, no less.
They use scanners to detect the A-gene in people, but lost the ability to use the other record-keeping equipment?
In the last ten thousand years there hasn't been a single enquiring mind among the PTB in the Tower to try to
figure out how to make the tech work? Are McKay and Carter the only people in two galaxies who can backwards
engineer anything?

I just think that while the concept of a sister city ship is terrific, the execution in this ep was hopelessly inept.

[Naughtrish]

Worst episode ever IMO. Not even funny.
*goes away sulking*

[PG15]

Yeah... there's so much wrong with that whole city-buried-for-ten-thousand-years-except-for-the-central-spire-which-has- remained-intact-while-all-the-systems-in-the-buried-parts-are-still-working- despite-the-earthquakes scenario that I hardly know where to start.

Well, we know why the central spire is the only one not buried: McKay said that most of the other spires were probably knocked down during Wraith attacks in the past.

And I can see an Ancient Cityship to maintain some function even though it was buried and...uh..."earthquaked".

[Flowerbud]

This was an awful episode. There were a some funny moments, but so many enormous plotholes.I don't get it how the idea of a sister city to Atlantis was treated in such an incidental manner. The intrigue in the royal court and the noble, but dumb peasants vs the jaded aristocrats just came off as ridiculous and very predictable. I didn't buy any of it.

What are the PTB doing to the character of John? The way the episode was edited, it was left ambigous whether he slept with the underage princess. That was such a bad choice; in fact, jarring. It doesn't fit with how JF has been portraying him, as kind of a geeky guy who is intensely loyal and whose primary motivation is protecting Atlantis and his people. Here, he's willing to jeopardize the safety of his team and of Atlantis so he can have a roll in the hay with a woman he just met, a silly, immature girl who only wants to sleep with him so she can get pregnant. Is Sheppard supposed to be such a womanizer he doesn't mind being used for stud service? And, then to either be bragging about it or lying about the incident to his boss that he supposedly deeply respects and is loyal to. It just doesn't fit, but there it is.

Unfortunately, this incident and his previous flings are starting to give the character a whiff of sleaziness (at least, that's my take).

Why do the writers and producers think that promiscuity will make a man more heroic, more manly? It's such a outdated, backwards sort of notion. If a male character is supposed to be heroic and admirable, I would like that person display some maturity and self-control and who views sexual intimacy as something special, to be shared with someone he cares for deeply. I guess Shadowmat was right; the PTB are writing their adolescent, fanboy fantasies.

[maxbo]

After reading so many spoilers and negative reviews, I thought I was ready for this episode... I was wrong. Others have already pointed out the many, many flaws in storyline execution, acting, settings, etc. Despite this, nothing compares to actually seeing this train wreck.

It is almost painful to realize that TPTB decided that this would be a good way to tell the story of discovering a city identical to Atlantis. Just think about it, they discovered a city identical to Atlantis. The reaction to that discovery should have been almost as great as when Atlantis was discovered. Instead, we get a storyline filled with caricatures of the evil rich vs. the good poor told in such a haphazard fashion that I didn't give a toss about either side.

And, John Sheppard... Lt. Colonel John Sheppard. What are they doing to this character? Despite his being responsible for the overall security of Atlantis and its occupants, when he's held hostage in Atlantis II, he decides to have sex with the immature, underage princess and stops, not because common sense (not mention common decency), prevailed -- no, he only stopped because the teen princess was so young and so immature that she blurted out that she only wanted to have sex with him so he could get her pregnant.

If this is the road TPTB plan to take this character, then it's a waste of a potentially great character. As it is, it's going to be hard to get these images of John as a dirty old lecher out of my head.

[mrtvr4]

Bah! I'd have to say, why all the hating? Give her one for me too John!

[FireCat]

What are the PTB doing to the character of John? The way the episode was edited, it was left ambigous whether he slept with the underage princess. That was such a bad choice; in fact, jarring. It doesn't fit with how JF has been portraying him, as kind of a geeky guy who is intensely loyal and whose primary motivation is protecting Atlantis and his people. Here, he's willing to jeopardize the safety of his team and of Atlantis so he can have a roll in the hay with a woman he just met, a silly, immature girl who only wants to sleep with him so she can get pregnant. Is Sheppard supposed to be such a womanizer he doesn't mind being used for stud service? And, then to either be bragging about it or lying about the incident to his boss that he supposedly deeply respects and is loyal to. It just doesn't fit, but there it is.

Unfortunately, this incident and his previous flings are starting to give the character a whiff of sleaziness (at least, that's my take).

Sheppard was my favorite character in season one, but your remark about sleaze is right on target. As season 2 has progressed, I've liked this character less and less and this episode marks the first time I've considered that this show might be better off with HIM as a recurring character.

I've felt something wrong with Sheppard all year, and "Aurora" really bothered me when he had the opportunity to meet and talk to REAL Ancients and the first thing he did was flirt with a hot officer. Toss in the stupidity of "Epiphany", attacking Teyla, this travesty of an episode where Sheppard pretty much beds a teenager then lies to Weir about it, and you get a character who is quickly becoming, oh I'll be nice, disappointing at best.

Hoping the rest of the season is better, and REALLY hoping the writers have learned their lesson and that they will bring season 1 Sheppard back to season 3.

"The Tower", minus the dumb romance part, and with some better writing, could have been a very good episode giving us more background on the Ancients. They totally missed the boat on this one.