The Tower (215)

[Oblivion147]

When??? I didn't see that? I'd crack up at that bit! Ilove Blackadder!

I think it was just before Mckay found the hidden entrance to the city. He was with Ronan and Telya and said something along the lines of "My young friend Baldrick....." I was quite suprised, isn't that a very Engish joke or was Blackadder released in USA/CANADA?

[Willow'sCat]

I think it was just before Mckay found the hidden entrance to the city. He was with Ronan and Telya and said something along the lines of "My young friend Baldrick....." I was quite suprised, isn't that a very English joke or was Blackadder released in USA/CANADA?

Right scene and Beckett has just arrived on the planet, Rodney said "Baldric my trusty local guide". They would see it on the BBC internationl channel or what ever it is called and how many years ago was it released on video/DVD? Rowan Atkinson is quite well known.

[Oblivion147]

Right scene and Beckett has just arrived on the planet, Rodney said "Baldric my trusty local guide". They would see it on the BBC internationl channel or what ever it is called and how many years ago was it released on video/DVD? Rowan Atkinson is quite well known.

Well at least we have managed one decent export then! I'm so thankfull of the television produced by our transatlantic neighbours.

[Kazper]

I know it is a TV show that is my fave annoying response to a lot of what people say about SG but it is a show people invest a lot of time in (maybe too much time) and therefore they have a right, yes right to be concerned when they feel the show is treating them with contempt or presenting a character in a light that is um-becoming (don't hear that word much anymore) or plainly out of character.

I don't think anyone here has over stepped the line and saying this is an awful episode or badly written is only criticism which is what this thread is for Discussion (critic) good/bad.

I may have worded myself slightly wrong, I suppose I didn't mean that it's not ok to critizise the specific writing in an episode, but I see a lot of posts that expands way beyond that and and takes this as some kind of proof that the entire season is bad etc. Saying this or that director or writer suck in general, etc.

The main problem I have with this whole scenario is that it appears to me to be so out of character for Sheppard, not the Kirking but the giving into it so easily he never did this with any of the other women. I get that some men and women "can't control themselves" but he was

a) Still on duty
b) Seriously he was their prisoner, sure they had nice sheets and a big bed but he couldn't have just left.
c) Waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too old for her for it to even be funny IMO. (ageism card) Not to mention the plain fact the she was a "pawn" being played in more than two directions.
d) In so many ways inappropriate behaviour for the Military Leader while still officially on duty.

Well I'm sure there have been many great military leaders that could even qualify for the word "promiscuous" - I know for a fact that such behaviour even tends to be overrepresented in political leaders And the power and position the person holds is not much different with high political positions and high military positions. I refuse to accept that military people in general represent better people than the rest of society The same argument goes for age btw (*cough* Clinton *cough*).

If my assumptions are wrong in wanting it to be fresh, a little dark and SciFi that makes me want to forget how bad SG-1 has become then guilty as charged.

Well I think that it is - although you are not one of the people that prompted me to make my post SGA is slightly darker than SG-1 overall, but it's still primarily an action series with a light bend and all the rest I wrote up in my last post BSG is the SciFi series that delivers darkness, detail and a serious attitude all the time.

[Willow'sCat]

Well I'm sure there have been many great military leaders that could even qualify for the word "promiscuous" - I know for a fact that such behaviour even tends to be overrepresented in political leaders And the power and position the person holds is not much different with high political positions and high military positions. I refuse to accept that military people in general represent better people than the rest of society The same argument goes for age btw (*cough* Clinton *cough*).

Hmm, that is real life and this is a SciFi show aimed in many ways at young impressionable minds and I for one do not want young boys thinking this kind of behaviour is just fine and dandy, I am well aware of Clinton's and JFK's exploits but do I want them on Prime-time TV while my nephew is watching no, I do not. I would like him to have someone to look up to and admire that isn't going with every gene enhanced women in Pegasus. * I know don't look to TV for role models you will only be disappointed*

Well I think that it is - although you are not one of the people that prompted me to make my post SGA is slightly darker than SG-1 overall, but it's still primarily an action series with a light bend and all the rest I wrote up in my last post BSG is the SciFi series that delivers darkness, detail and a serious attitude all the time.

I have never seen BSG, well not the new version so I wouldn't know but I don't want SGA to be like SG-1 or even like ST and it is becoming IMO a little too much like SG-1 now.

[ShadowMaat]

...I see a lot of posts that expands way beyond that and and takes this as some kind of proof that the entire season is bad etc. Saying this or that director or writer suck in general, etc. *snip* ...although you are not one of the people that prompted me to make my post

That would be me. But then, if I notice what I consider to be consistently poor writing or certain ideas I hate being presented by the same people over and over, do I not have a right to complain about that and say, "Oh, well if so-and-so did it, that explains everything"?

Whatever. I'll keep on posting my opinions and you can keep right on disliking it. Such is the way of freedom of speech, eh wot?

M&M used to be among my favorite writers, but that mantle slipped long ago. Now I prefer Martin Gero and Carl Binder. Even they aren't perfect, but their great eps outnumber their weak eps, which is more than can be said of some OTHER SG writers.

I'm also not afraid to call something crap if I think it's crap- whether it's by someone I dislike, someone I like, or someone I don't even know. I'm not the kind of person who can paint a rosey picture of something I hated just because it's "nice" to concentrate on the good.

[Domesticated Equine]

1) Way too many people took this (and other) episodes way too seriously.

If by taking seriously you mean not being able to overlook all the glaring problems of the episodes, then I'm guilty.

2) Way too many people expect something different than SG

I think you might be right. I'm hoping SG could be better but should probably just accept it'll never be more than mediocre for me. Even mediocre shows can be entertaining, but unfortunately we're starting to fall short of that with SG-A.

3) Way too many people get their knickers in a twist (bad pun intended) over The "Kirking".

It's not the biggest problem for me but yes, I don't like how they're writing Sheppard right now.

4) The episode was (intentionally) silly, but fell short of being "fun" silly

I disagree, I think this was supposed to be a serious episode but failed miserably. In any case, it doesn't matter what the writers intended, the only thing that matters is the outcome.

Detailed Opinion:

1) I get upset when I see people talking bad about writers, directors or any of TPTB because of one or several episodes below par, when other episodes are excellent and shows beyond doubt that AGA is well and alive.

My first suggestion would be not to get upset over other people expressing their opinion. I also disagree that SGA is well and alive, in my opinion the average quality of the show is quite poor.

There is not a single TV show in existance that has not had a balanced mix of good, average and bad episodes, and even for the best shows this ratio is not greatly pushed to one side or the other. I can name many horrible, horrible episodes from every major TV series - even the most popular like X-Files, Simpsons, etc. Allow the weaker links to wash over you, and enjoy the good parts. Now if a show stop having any good episodes then it's time to call it quits.

Wow, that's quite a statement. The best shows on TV I've seen have had some variance in the quality of their episodes, but they've been consistently very good (Veronica Mars and Deadwood for example). Also, the average quality does differ greatly from show to show -- are you seriously saying that every show is roughly equivalent in quality?

2) This isn't BSG. Nor is it Bab5 - or Alias. Or (heaven forbid) 24. Different series have different amounts of continuity, and SG isn't all that high on the continuity scale. This should be no surprise to any fan or longtime viewer. So stop complaining about it and if continuity is a dealbreaker for you watch other shows.

Don't tell me what to do -- I'm allowed to complain about continuity even if I have no hope of the writers improving the show. And yes, I do watch other shows that are much better partly because of the continuity.

3) SG is filled with references to other SciFi and popular culture, and to me this is just another such reference. I laugh at those scenes - partly because Joe acts them really funny, partly because I laugh at the reference and partly because they are mostly intended as lighthearted material. So what if Sheppard is a Casanova? I like my heroes flawed. Makes them more believable and this is a flaw that in no way detracts from Sheppard's heroic sides - bravery, intelligence, intuition, etc. It's just human. I honestly can't say what I would have done if Mara had stepped into my room and offered herself in that way - haven't had anything even remotely similar to that ever happen to me But I do not think Sheppard's weakness is unbelievable - I'm willing to bet a lot of people (both men and women) would go along with such a clear invitation and willingness. By the time she mentions his genes his blood can already be pumping so hot there's no going back. No matter what happened or didn't happen though, the scene was IMHO not supposed to be so deeply analysed.

I'm glad you didn't mind that scene. As far as I'm concerned, the military leader of Atlantis expedition sleeping with practically every woman throwing herself at him while on a mission does not make him more believable.

4) Yes the episode was weak - very weak. It tried to do the "I'm making fun of myself and being so silly that it's fun", and it failed miserably. Too bad. There were still fun scenes in there, and in the end it was 40 minutes spent as entertained as I'd have been watching Letterman, reading a comic or any number of other ways I could have spent those 40 minutes. I can either be upset and angry that it wans't better or I can just take the entertainment for what it was. It's the old "is the glass half full or half empty" situation.

Good for you, I wasn't entertained at all. I'm not however "upset and angry", I'm merely expressing my negative opinion about the episode in the thread reserved for them.

5) As I said above this episode was clearly designed to be lighthearted and fun - it failed, but this means that the lack of plot isn't a bad thing. The error was in badly executed comedy. Let's not accuse the show of more shortfalls than it actually had.

I don't think this was designed to be a humorous episode à la Wormhole X-treme but if it was, I'd say the episode was an even bigger failure than I originally thought.

6) See previous point, as well as my point about SG not being a continuity heavy series. Continuity isn't expected in a silly stand-alone filler.

Maybe the question should be: "Should a silly stand-alone filler feature a revelation big enough to shake the entire foundation of the series (the second city)?"

8) People complain that we do not see scientists carry away databanks and equipment. That's how the series is designed. This is an action series - I've seen entire BSG episodes that had little to no action, but advanced a detail. I like that, but it's a different show, and I also like the much more simplistic action of SG. I guess I'm one of those people that like the entire spectrum from the very simple action world of SG to the convoluted and slowmoving world of BSG. But know what you like and fit your viewing to it - don't try to change the series to what it's not and has never been. SG-1 has built up a lot of continuity and canon by now but that's because the show is on it's ninth season for crying out loud. No series can avoid building up a sizable amount of canon and continuity in that long a run, but compared to the just five seasons of Bab5 which had way more of both, this highlights that SG is an action series - not a detail series.

I don't really get this -- seeing a few scientists carry databank changes the show away from action? I'd actually like to hear your definition of action because aside from The Hive I'd say we've gotten very little of it during the second half of the season.

9) The important thing in this show is the team. I like character development as much as the next man here but in the end I do not expect to get to know 4-8 people intimately in less than two seasons, unless I want to spend half the episodes with little action and lots of character development. Again this is not the right show for that. Again BSG has terrific character development in much shorter time, but at a cost.

I honestly don't get this -- having a team means the characters can't get properly developed? Also what cost did BSG suffer when it emphasized character development? A lack of action compared to SGA?

To sum up - I agree this episode was way below par, but much of the criticism it is getting is based on wrong assumptions of what this show offers.

You might be onto something here. If I expect SGA to have weak plots, no continuity or character development and very little to no entertainment I'll find it hard to get disappointed.

[keppiezbt]

I'm gonna agree that this wasnt the best episode....I feel with season 2 that they have these good episode ideas and can do so much but they are just falling short...

there was so much in this episode..drones, a sister city to alantis, jumpers....i mean this was a perfect opportunity to learn more about the ancients and get a zpm and learn so much more

but did we? nope. we had earthquakes and a dead zpm instead.

I mean we havent learned anything really knew about the ancients or their time in pegasus in a really really long time...and furthermore we keep finding ancient tech but we get NONE of it.

Ive been real dissapointed with the second half of this season....

cant they through us a bone where we actually learn something or get something?

this season held such promise after the seige and i dont think it has really devlived...

[ShadowMaat]

Maybe the question should be: "Should a silly stand-alone filler feature a revelation big enough to shake the entire foundation of the series (the second city)?"

Exactly. Of course, what we consider to be a massive, ground-shaking development has been treated as a meaningless piece of fluff by TPTB, so maybe that's how we're supposed to treat it, too. How stupid of us, thinking that it's important to find that Atlantis has a sister city. [/sarcasm]

[Uber]

Okay so yet another Sheppard and McKay story with Dex, Teyla et al as almost afterthoughts.

This was just an "ok" episode for me...nothing really to write home about. When the guy broke out the scanner, I figured he was checking to make sure no one had Wraith DNA. But when it beeped over John, I pretty much figured out the point of the story...that the one using the chair was dying and they needed a replacement and lo and behold, savior John shows up.

I didn't figure out about the bald guy though. I figured as cliched as the story seemed to be it really was the son.

I was however extremely disappointed with the reverse Critical Mass solution. What a letdown.

I guess the thing to take out of this was that there is at least one and perhaps there are other Ancient cities in the Pegasus galaxy...thus more puddle jumpers and drones and dare I suggest it...ZPMs? The possibilities abound.

Loved seeing Beckett off world making housecalls again...also as another plus...it was fun seeing Harlin again, sans the annoying Komtraya! riff.

[alfirin_kirinki]

I didn't figure out about the bald guy though. I figured as cliched as the story seemed to be it really was the son.

The accent didn't tip you off?!

[PG15]

The...English accent?

How would that tip us off?

[ShadowMaat]

The...English accent?

How would that tip us off?

Everyone knows that villains always have an English accent. Check your film collection.

[alfirin_kirinki]

The...English accent?

How would that tip us off?

Us Brits are always baddies or smug science geeks.

[PG15]

Huh, guess I need to watch more movies.