Grace Under Pressure (214)

[spg_1983]

That transport ship better be well-armed if it's going to go through Wraith space.

Why? Wratih ships can't even come close to matching the speed of our hyperdrives.

[spg_1983]

I never saw the Daedalus as being that attached to Atlantis itself. IMHO, the Daedalus was meant as a ferry, since Earth doesn't have a ZPM to establish a wormhole connection to Pegasus. After all, Atlantis needs food and supplies, and from what we've seen, they haven't been entirely successful with establishing trade for those supplies within Pegasus. Is the Daedalus meant solely as a ferry? No, of course not - they're a great source of backup and defense for Atlantis. But with the capability of cloaking and shielding Atlantis this season, they could scrape by without the aid of the Daedalus in less dire situations. And since it takes over two weeks each way going to and from Earth via the Daedalus, that's clearly a lot of time that will be spent away from Atlantis.

So again I go back to my point of the fact that we have our most important tactical asset relagated to wasting it's time as a transport ship. The majority of Daedalus' mass is dedicated to weapons, ammo, and its offensive and defensive systems. Sure it's got cargo holds, but how much can it really carry in relation to its tactical abilities? Atlantis lasted for nearly a year on the supplies they were able to bring through on the first trip through the gate. Daedalus can carry at least an equal amount of supplies in one trip. Does it really need to be making constant round trips for supplies? Deadalus should be making the round trip every three months max.

[PG15]

Ok, my bad.

Still though, it's not like Earth's pumping out ships (well, don't quote me on that). I'm guessing they'll rather spend all of their efforts on a battleship instead of building a measily transport ship just for ferrying. And, also xfkirsten said...well, just read what he/she said.

As for the rest of the points, I'm just gonna say that Daedalus can still serve as a defensive tool, but it's first and foremost a transport tool. With it they can get to planets that they can't normally get to with a gate, or somewhere where a gate is not availble, or they can use it to get back to Atlantis from Earth.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that last point, since I firmly believe they realize we're smart enough to know that the Daedalus isn't there even if they don't mention it.

Oh, one last thing. I don't know if this is right, but I don't think they cared about the Daedalus as much as the ZPM it's bringing.

[derrickh]

I think the dumbing down of the episode is 100% due to the writers phoning it in. They refuse to do anything that even approaches decent writing. It's like they're working on a bad 80's sitcom and are just showing up to collect a check. Reusing plots, ignoring past episodes, throwing common sense out the window when it's inconvienent. The bad part is, these guys used to be good.

They wont do any real character development or even reference past eps because it would be to much work. Some guy decided to write a story about McKay trapped and then said to hell with everything that didn't fit in with his plot points. Daedelus? Never mentioned. Sensors? They dont work under water. Sheilds? Why not. Kill of a crew member? We'll pretend it never happened. BigWigs demanded a SG-1 crossover? Hallucunation!

It's episodes like this that show a near contempt for the viewer. It would have been easy to make it a good show. It's like the went out of their way to ruin it.

D

[spg_1983]

Oh, one last thing. I don't know if this is right, but I don't think they cared about the Daedalus as much as the ZPM it's bringing.

They cared about the ZPM first and foremost to raise the shield and preserve the city, but they were dependent on the Daedalus for a solution of dealing with the ships in orbit. The drone weapon was empty, they had no offensive capabilities, even with the ZPM if Daedalus didn;t deal with the ships it wouldnt matter because they would be trapped like the ancietns were.

[PG15]

So again I go back to my point of the fact that we have our most important tactical asset relagated to wasting it's time as a transport ship. The majority of Daedalus' mass is dedicated to weapons, ammo, and its offensive and defensive systems. Sure it's got cargo holds, but how much can it really carry in relation to its tactical abilities? Atlantis lasted for nearly a year on the supplies they were able to bring through on the first trip through the gate. Daedalus can carry at least an equal amount of supplies in one trip. Does it really need to be making constant round trips for supplies? Deadalus should be making the round trip every three months max.

Actually, the railguns and the missles don't do much good against the Wraith. The only thing we got is the nuke, which doesn't really work anymore.

Now that I think about it, the Daedalus sucks at actually attacking any Wraith things, and the only thing it's got for itself is the shield, which Atlantis already has.

Oh, and here's a list of episodes that has the Daedalus at Atlantis/Pegasus (not using it to argue anything, just pointing it out for future reference):

The Siege Part 3
Intruder
Runner
(A gap here)
Trinity
(small gap)
Conversion
Aurora
(small gap)
The Hive
(small gap)
Critical Mass
(small gap)

That's where most of us are at right now. I've seen the rest of the episodes except Allies, so...

Spoiler:

The Long Goodbye
(2-episode gap)
Inferno

[xfkirsten]

So again I go back to my point of the fact that we have our most important tactical asset relagated to wasting it's time as a transport ship. The majority of Daedalus' mass is dedicated to weapons, ammo, and its offensive and defensive systems. Sure it's got cargo holds, but how much can it really carry in relation to its tactical abilities? Atlantis lasted for nearly a year on the supplies they were able to bring through on the first trip through the gate. Daedalus can carry at least an equal amount of supplies in one trip. Does it really need to be making constant round trips for supplies? Deadalus should be making the round trip every three months max.

PG15 covered it, but I'll add this quote from The Long Goodbye:

Spoiler:

McKay says to Caldwell "you are here for, like, what, about one week out of six?" Just goes to show how much the Daedalus really isn't around anyways.

And although we haven't neccessarily seen it on SG-1, I'd assume that the Daedalus would come in handy in the Milky Way as well. It may not be solely dedicated to Atlantis.

[SciFiGeek]

Fabulous episode! So much better than I thought it would, especially since I find myself unfond of episodes where one main character is either left by themself or off with a bunch of guest stars to wander and/or ramble while the others try to rescue them. Plus, I continue to maintain that the show's greatest strength lies in the interaction between the main characters--Sheppard and McKay in particular.

But I absolutely loved the stuff between McKay and Carter. It was brilliant and hilarious. My opinion of Carter usually wavers, but Amanda Tapping just further demonstrates how good she is at her job. And I thought she played it as a perfect balance between the actual Carter, and how McKay would imagine her to be in a hallucination (or fantasy).

Someone complained (sorry, I don't remember who) that all the stuff brought up by McKay were things that we already know about him; but I think what made me engaged was the fact that this was the first affirmation we've had that he is aware of these aspects of his personality. The point isn't so much whether or not he actually is petty and selfish--it's that, subconsciously, he thinks (and to some degree) realizes he is. Which I thought was great new character development. Now that he realizes these things, where will go from here? I think, under pressure, McKay is a much better person than he even realizes or admits--but using Carter as an outlet for his subconscious was great in so many ways.

I was also very concerned about the half-naked, kissing stuff...but the fact that was her (and in essence, himself) trying to distract him, was really great.

I think complaints that this was yet another McKay episode when there's been more lack for Teyla, Ronon and Beckett is fair enough. But I will be honest and say that episodes the focus on some of those other characters are some of my less favorites. I think two of the best episodes last season were Before I Sleep (Weir-centric) and The Definat One (Sheppard-McKay). So I will freely admit that I am much more biased for episodes like this and against ones like The Gift and Runner.

I can also understand complaints about this being a boring episde--because if you don't like McKay, then this really probably wasn't that great an episode. However, McKay is my favorite character, and I loved this episode. So each to their own.

As for the preview for next week's...no comment. At least Battlestar Galactica looks good.

[PsychoPenguin]

Absentee fan chiming in here. I hate to say this--since anyone who remembers me will remember that a few months back I was devoted to SGA--but lately I am really becoming disenchanted with this show. So much so that I wasn't even planning to watch it Friday night. In fact, if it hadn't been for hubby having to work late, we'd have gone out with some friends instead. However, since our plans fell through, we decided to get some beer and pizza and give Scifi Friday another shot.

By the time BSG finally came around though, we weren't exactly thrilled. With our decision, or SG1 and SGA. We actually started flipping during SG1's commercials, and if we could have found a basketball game on somewhere, we probably *wouldn't* have come back.

Awful but true.

But since we were stuck without anything else to watch, we decided to give all three shows a chance, and as the night wore on, I thought the reactions of the Non-Fandom Based Fan, ie, my hubby, said a great deal about the quality of what we saw. I say this because, after having become involved in this online fandom, I feel my own reactions smack of a little bit of in-built bias here and there. I mean, I *want* to like certain things. I *want* to make excuses, and I feel that I've lost my ability to see when those excuses can actually be said to apply. My husband, OTOH, calls it like he sees it, and can be counted on to give an honest appraisal of all of these shows.

So where to start? First of all, Hubby, who's the longtime SG1 fan in the relationship, and the reason I even watch scifi, said "Stronghold" was "boring." Boring, boring, boring. Boring with a capital "B" boring.

"Devoted way too much time to this pilot I don't know [Mitchell]," he said. "And I don't wanna know him. He's bleh. I don't know if it's bad writing or bad acting, but they got no idea who they want this guy to be."

Fifteen minutes into SGA: "Oh, it's the scientist guy again. Joy. We see this guy *way* too much." Then he got up and walked into the kitchen, walked down to the rec room, and then came back up and said, "Hey, I'm gonna play video games. Will you feel like I'm neglecting you if I don't watch this with you?"

Since I said, "No," he went and played Civilization for awhile.

Four years at the Air Force Academy. He's quite good at conquering the world.

He came back up when BSG came on. Plopped back down with two beers and said, "Ah. The good stuff. People who can actually write and act. What a concept."

"You're the one who watches 'Stargate Mondays,'" I said.

"Yeah," he said, "but I never realized how much Jack was keeping me from seeing how annoying all the other characters are." He pointed at Apollo walking across the screen. "They could kill off this guy, or any of the other characters, and I'd still watch this. They've taken the time to make *all* of the characters cool on this show." Then he handed me one of the beers and set down to watching with rapt concentration.

Like a five-year-old on Saturday morning. It was actually sort of cute.

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, I guess I've had my eyes opened a bit lately, and having pondered Hubby's comments, I can see now that SGA is no longer the tension-filled, ensemble show season one appeared to promise me. Rather, it has fallen into the trap of its parent show. Namely, the inability of the franchise writers to develop more than one character per show and to resist allowing stereotyping and caricaturing to fill in the cracks for all of the others. In the case of SG1, that one developed character was Jack; in the case of SGA, that character has become McKay. And unfortunately for SGA, while my husband *loved* Jack, he's incredibly unimpressed by McKay. Hence, the playing of video games, a practice I foresee returning if we end up staying in again on a Friday night.

(Which I have to say baffles me. Especially after skimming through some threads protesting the random appearances of alien bimbos in future episodes. That sounds to me like TPTB *want* to attract more male viewers like my husband. So why would they spend so much time developing a character such a viewer would find unappealing?

I just don't get it.)

But where do I fit into this, you ask? Well, I have to say that I've become thoroughly bored by McKay also, and that I hadn't truly realized how much until this past Friday night. I mean, the banter between McKay and his hallucination could be cute at times, but the amount of time focused on this dynamic frustrated me after awhile. It made me realize that I hadn't seen Teyla. Or Ronon. Or Beckett. *At all* in this ep. Three regulars, MIA, for an entire episode. Meanwhile, the two remaining regulars we *did* see--Weir and Sheppard--were not served in any useful way by this episode. We saw nothing new out of either of them. They were just the same leaders we've seen previously this season. And I have to say that really, really bothered me.

Especially since I also realized *how much* all of the above has been happening this season

Anyway, my rambling point here is that this particular household of scifi fans is unimpressed with the characters that have become the focus of the Stargate shows. Hence, I think we may be renting movies in the future rather than suffering through two boring hours just to get to BSG. My husband, meanwhile, will continue to watch "Stargate Monday."

He has to keep getting his "Jack Fix" from somewhere.

[BigBadBob]

I wouldn't say AS good.. but AS funny, you know what I mean?

there certainly were some comical moments. That's for sure.

[entil2001]

This is a fairly simple episode, and because it focuses primarily on McKay, enjoyment is directly related to one’s tolerance for the character. Some fans, including myself, have complained about the screen time devoted to McKay and his personality flaws. It felt as though the first half of the season was dominated by the subject. This episode could be perceived as salt on the wound, though in a more objective sense, it simply doesn’t cover new territory.

When it comes to the characters on this show, McKay is the one that routinely bugs the hell out of me but, moments later, reminds me why I like him. It’s very much a moment-to-moment love/hate thing. I’ve found that McKay is most tolerable when he has someone with as strong a personality in the same scene. That’s why Sheppard is such a great match, and why his battles with Weir and Zelenka work on a structural level.

Put him in a bottle and force us to listen to him whine for an act or so? Not so tolerable. Frankly, the episode was a wash for me until the moment that McKay’s vision of Samantha Carter emerged on the scene. Once he had someone to work against, in terms of the scene dynamic, it was a lot less annoying. It didn’t hurt that the writers were able to introduce some ambiguity.

Unfortunately, this also shoved the episode directly into retread territory. Even the producers cite the “SG-1” episode “Grace” as a primary influence on this episode! Granted, after so many episodes within the franchise, the two series will begin repeating concepts, falling into the same problems that the Trek franchise struggled with towards the end. But the “Stargate” franchise, at least, has a better grasp on character development, even without a truly serialized format.

In essence, the idea is that the same situation is viable if the characters involved react in a different manner than the characters in the original iteration. But that’s not what happens in this case; at least, not to the degree necessary to make the episode something more than derivative. There’s some slight hint that the ocean creature was trying to help McKay survive, and thus brought about the hallucinations in some way, but it’s hardly a given.

My other issue with the episode is that it comes on the heels of another crossover with “SG-1”. I don’t necessarily mind that the two series have connective threads, but I do mind when the “SG-1” cast is used as a way to lend credibility to an episode. As logical as this crossover is, it feels like a stunt. I would rather see this series stand on its own, because it can do so with relative ease. Hopefully the next episode will focus more on the cast as a whole and attempt to cover new ground.

[nccjones]

I'm hoping the writers think that we're smart enough to assume stuff without them spelling everything out.

Daedalus didn't help = Daedalus wasn't there. Why would you need to be told?

Well, I assumed the Daedalus wasn't there because I figure they had to go back to Earth because the Daedalus' Commander had been a Goua'ld host. I think I'm sure they would want to interrogate/debrief the Commander. Make sure he wasn't part of the Trust and ensure he was just an innocent victem. That would be my guess. I mean, it doesn't take much to use a little imagination. I don't believe everything has to spelled out in black and white.

[GhostPoet]

Yet another VERY enjoyable episode...centering around the fan-favorite (and anyone else who has even the slightest sense of humor) Mckay.

Really enjoyed this episode..very classic Stargate. Man...the two series are really enjoyable.

[GhostPoet]

I think the dumbing down of the episode is 100% due to the writers phoning it in. They refuse to do anything that even approaches decent writing. It's like they're working on a bad 80's sitcom and are just showing up to collect a check. Reusing plots, ignoring past episodes, throwing common sense out the window when it's inconvienent. The bad part is, these guys used to be good.

They wont do any real character development or even reference past eps because it would be to much work. Some guy decided to write a story about McKay trapped and then said to hell with everything that didn't fit in with his plot points. Daedelus? Never mentioned. Sensors? They dont work under water. Sheilds? Why not. Kill of a crew member? We'll pretend it never happened. BigWigs demanded a SG-1 crossover? Hallucunation!

It's episodes like this that show a near contempt for the viewer. It would have been easy to make it a good show. It's like the went out of their way to ruin it.

D

I just think you are nitpicky.

character development? The entire episode was one giant character episode.
The Daedelus...incase you forgot...is more than likely back on earth because of a little situtation from a previous episode. Why waste character time on something we can figure out for ourselves? There were two scenes that showed how they felt about the dead crew member. When Mckay was trapped..and when they rescue him.

I thought all of this was so obvious.

Fantastic episode and season.

[NakedJehutyV2]

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/reviews/214.shtml


so mckay knows he's inferior to carter (ie carter's smarter). hopefully this'll lead to a toned down mckay