Critical Mass (213)

[Yeade]

Well, you see, here's the thing. I don't remember any of this because I never watched SG-1!

I'd be willing to believe a Goa'uld, working alone, is capable of the "Critical Mass" sabotage if the Goa'uld have shown a) signs of being able to program Ancient technology and b) familiarity with ZPM systems in particular.

From what immhotep says, it seems I can strike out A. And, now that I think about it, Weir mentions much the same--talking about the Trust's "Goa'uld scientists." I suppose one Goa'uld could do it given enough skill and time.

The timeline could work either way. Say Caldwell was compromised on his latest return to Earth, gave up all the information he had on Atlantis while he was there and plotted with the Trust people, then implemented the plan when he went back to Atlantis. All one trip! I assume the Goa'uld would be able to exert enough control to get everything on Atlantis out of Caldwell, though I'm not sure what you mean by "database," immhotep.

However, the "bomb" couldn't have been active more than a week ago or Atlantis would've exploded into smithereens, none the wiser, on the last report to SGC...

Aaarrggghh... C'mon, SGA! I know you can work out these time issues! And I don't even know if the Deddy left Atlantis after "The Hive"... No, no, that doesn't work. If Caldwell can leave whenever he wants, which seems to be the case, why would he pass up an opportunity to destroy the city? The three latest episodes couldn't have all happened within the same week, right?!

Okay. Deep breath. I can do this.

...wait, wait. There were two deletion points. Goa'uld!Caldwell accessed the city's systems twice, and I don't see why he'd do that if he were going to just plant the "bomb"--more likely to be discovered then one, fast coding session.

So, I'm going to stick with Caldwell having been compromised as far back as "The Hive." And that the visit the Deddy was leaving from at the start of this episode and "The Hive" were separate runs.

Spoiler:

Might also explain why he was still so keen on destroying both Wraith hives instead of making a strategic retreat after it became clear the nuke beaming wasn't going to pan out. Never could figure out what he expected to do. Especially since in "The Siege" and "Aurora" Caldwell wasn't above cutting his losses and running.

Does anyone else want to take a crack at the timeline here? My brain's starting to hurt, lol.


edit: minor rewording, additions for clarity, tags

[GatetheWay]

Weir said he copied the what ever then brought it back to the Trust then installed it.

So Caldwell would of had to of gone to Earth to been comprimised
then go back to Atlantis copy the whatever
then return to earth where the Turst thinks it over
finally returning to Atlantis again to plant the bomb
and start the return trip back to Earth when they are called back.

That's THREE trips on the Deddy roughly 54 days of him being a goauld on the ship not including his time spent on Atlantis or Earth. So it's been awhile maybe even farther back then the Hive.

[joasia]

A response for few questions asked in the whole thread.

I think Daedalus' engines are OK - they did risk the burnout to get the message to Atlantis on time, but have no need to be in such a hurry to get back to the city.

Why Earth did not dial Atlantis? Because the have been afraid that the bomb could go off as a result - some kind of signal transmitted from SGC or something. They did learn it's not the case later on.

We would probably see Sam if Daedalus would not cut the link by going to Atlantis.

I have the impression that Baal(s) got in contact with the Trust on Earth, and Baal is known to be able to modify Stargate program, which is definietly an Ancient technology (OK, the Fat Guy claimed ithas been him, but I do not quite believe him...). It looks like in the right circumstances Baal would be a good scientist, just remove the Goau'ld "kneel before your God" stuff.

And I knew it could not be Kavanagh. But I kind of hoped they manage to kill him somehow before they realise that (and, if I may say so, Teal'c innterrogation has been *much* more fruitful. Teal'c : Ronon - 1 : 0 )

[Yeade]

Weir said [Caldwell] copied the what ever then brought it back to the Trust then installed it.

That's what I thought (think), but brandohall pointed out that Weir said this before she knew Caldwell was a Goa'uld and speculated that, as a Goa'uld, he could've rewritten the Atlantis OS himself, meaning only one trip was needed--from Earth to Atlantis--and a much shorter span of time.

[GatetheWay]

This sounds like a good question to ask Joe.

[CYBEREAGLE19]

whsy everyone keep saying bomb, rember there was no actaule bomb, just software that had been re programmed foir the zmp failsafes, so for all we know it could have been uploaded at anytime then all it took was a remote activation from cauldwell

[duffarama]

This was one of the most emotional and heart riveting Stargate episodes I have watched. I never knew that the heights of Stargate Atlantis could reach this far.
The scenes nearing the end with Telya singing really capped it off. Intertwining Atlantis with SG1 was great because before this episode was aired, SG1 was helping Stargate Atlantis get off the ground. In this stunning episode it was the opposite.
Hopefully we get to see more of Caldwell and Kavanaugh in the future, because they acted amicably in Critical Mass. This surely was one of the best Atlantis episodes to date, along with The Eye, Before I Sleep and The Siege Part 2.

[Crichton]

I agree that it was an amazing episode. They once again show extra effort to things overlooked in almost all TV shows like, cinematography, editing, and now extra emphasis on music. I'm not a huge fan of the Teyla song, but there's no denying that it was implemented flawlessly.

Spoiler:

The moment Caldwell's eye's flashed gold revealing he was a Gou'ald, I got chills as the acting, music, editing, and special effects all contributed to a highly emotional and all around kick ass scene. Damn I'm happy I don't read spoilers.

Spoiler:

Landry was flat as ever but the crossover was well done. Cadmen is hot I tell you!! Give that women some more screen time!!

[ShadowMaat]

Lee- LOVE him. LOL! It cracks me up that none of them got the Twilight Bark reference, but everyone had an "oh yeah" reaction to LOTR. A little on the too cutesy side, but it still made me grin. So is Lee the Zelenka of SG-1 or what? Their scenes had a similar "why me?" feel to them. Speaking of which...

Zelenka- I have to say, I'm surprised he hates children so much. I would have figured he'd love them, just because McKay hates them so much. And he has a sister, too? It worked, yes, and I loved the whole grump about the kids and then the lovely little exxtreme makeover at the end (finally puts that pic on the Zelenka thread into perspective)- it was one of the highlights of the ep for me, but I still wish they'd give Rodney and Radek more diverse backgrounds. I kinda wish we could have had Zelenka's story as the B-plot instead, but I guess that would have ruined some of the hilarity of that final scene.

Kavanagh- love him even more, now. He's still a complete jackass, and yet now we have a glimpse of something more going on. My guess as for why he's always hanging around Novak is that he has a "thing" for her (this could be why he keeps going back and forth- more time to spend with her). But being the arrogant prick that he is, he could never admit it and can't lower his guard enough to tell her how he feels. Or maybe it has something to do with his secret friend in Atlantis. Wonder who (or what) THAT might be.

He's kinda like a concentrated version of McKay, without the superbrain and lacking even the rudimentary socializing skills Rodney has. Now I wanna know what's happened to make him like that. It'll also be interesting to see what happens now that he knows just how much Weir hates/distrusts him. Personally, though, I think he made some pretty good points about her, however rudely he did it.

Hermiod- "Stop talking." LOL! Gotta love it.

Caldwell- had him pegged as a suspect at the beginning, but didn't think the producers would ever go that way and given all the highly detailed technical/scientific knowledge that would have been required to do what was done... I dunno. Seems a little far-fetched, unless the goa'uld was a scientific genius. Or wait, he took a copy of the system back to Earth and had folks working on it there?? Umm... OK... Why does that seem MORE far-fetched to me?

Teyla- OK, I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I HATED HATED HATED that whole song sequence. HATED it. I'm sorry. It felt MASSIVELY out of place. If it had been a solo voice without accompaniment (or with only subdued instrumentals) that'd be one thing, but full orchestration AND back-up vocals?? *grinds teeth* It looked and sounded like it was recorded in a studio (I really don't like lip synching) and it was WAY too much (and too long) for a simple Athosian ceremony. I found it unbelieveable and a big detractant to the ep. This whole B-plot didn't really mesh well with the rest of the ep- not similar enough to lend weight to the arc and not different enough to counter-balance it.

Cadman- I liked her better in Duet. She felt like too much of a red herring this time and only seemed to be around to give McKay something to be paranoid about- not really part of the story so much as a convenient plot device. The character has potential, she deserves better than this.

Weir- as I said, Kavanagh was right, she IS ruled by her emotions and many of her actions prove it, including her reaction to Kavanagh and the fact that in the end she was willing to try torture. The fact that instead of being Kavanagh it was Caldwell (another person she hates) only emphasizes her lack of appropriate distancing, if you ask me. Were they "necessary" calls? Maybe. But if the prime suspect had been, say, Sheppard, it would NEVER have happened.

Agree on the rushed ending. WAY too quickly (and easily) resolved. And for all the stressing about those Wraith ships, they seemed to be dismissed awfully fast. Once again, more plot device than anything of relevance (especially since we already know about the in-fighting between hives).

Some of the individual elements were great and I guess the ep hangs together as a whole, but the whole whodunit thing felt a little forced and the resolution was overly contrived. I mean, who here REALLY thought it was Kavanagh? He was just as much of a red herring as Cadman, but at least he had better scenes.

Also, am I to understand that when the SGC sends an ultra-high priority message about a massive breach in security and the possibility of a goa'uld infiltration, that the details get broadcast to the entire bridge crew? Or was Novak speaking directly into Caldwell's earbud? (was he wearing one?) And why is Novak reading such a message, anyway? If it's that vital and if there's even a question that someone on the ship might be compromised, I should think that the message would be coded for Caldwell's eyes only. Yes, it turns out he was the leak, but that wasn't known at the time and I get the feeling that the only reason it DIDN'T happen that way was to broaden the pool of suspects.

Incidentally, why not name the Goa'uld who infiltrated the Trust? Do they not want to spoiler the earlier ep of SG-1? Or are we supposed to infer that more than one Goa'uld is now involved and not just those loyal to you-know-who? Actually, this whole "bomb in the city" plotline was a little TOO similar to "that" ep of SG-1. I kept waiting for someone to say, "The bomb isn't in the city, it IS the city!" Although I guess the ZPM being the culprit was the next best thing. *sigh* Will Atlantis ever break away from the SG-1 lite syndrome?

The crossover was well handled, but I'm still leery that they're over-doing it. I don't care that Atlantis has to answer to the SGC and that the two shows are directly related, I want there to be as little leakage as possible between the two. Instead, it seems as if the shows are doomed to become MORE intertwined, not less. Let's not strangle them BOTH, okay?

Oh, and TOF, forget the whole "people questioning Weir's authority get the smackdown" thing, let's look at anyone who tries to usurp Shep's authority: the first two get wraithed and now Caldwell is snaked. Dangerous job, being a military commander in Atlantis...

[Naughtrish]

Shadow expressed most of my thoughts about this episode.
I will add that I expected Weir to kick Ponytail's rear after he said "who needs to blow up the city when Weir is on command" (not exact words, I know). Where was the "I've not worked up humiliation yet" Weir? Instead we got a nearly sobbing, pouting face. Sheesh.
And I was kinda shocked to realize that Sheppard would go for torture... I never expected him to go that way. Yeah well, he did with Steve the Wraith... Geneva Convention not applying... still can't see him agreeint with torture plain and simple.

[Crichton]

And I was kinda shocked to realize that Sheppard would go for torture... I never expected him to go that way. Yeah well, he did with Steve the Wraith... Geneva Convention not applying... still can't see him agreeint with torture plain and simple.

I don't think TPTB really planned things out like, ok in this situation it would be in Sheppard's character to endorse torture. I believe that they just made him agree with that so that they could play out their statements/moral lesson about how current U.S. torture policies are very Wraith-like. I gotta say TPTB had some balls on that one, good job!!

[iLemon]

LMAO!! Kavvy fainted!! That scene was hilarious!!

I loved the LOTR reference too but I cant believe those guys have never seen 101 Dalmations

Teyla- OK, I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I HATED HATED HATED that whole song sequence. HATED it. I'm sorry. It felt MASSIVELY out of place. If it had been a solo voice without accompaniment (or with only subdued instrumentals) that'd be one thing, but full orchestration AND back-up vocals?? *grinds teeth* It looked and sounded like it was recorded in a studio (I really don't like lip synching) and it was WAY too much (and too long) for a simple Athosian ceremony. I found it unbelieveable and a big detractant to the ep. This whole B-plot didn't really mesh well with the rest of the ep- not similar enough to lend weight to the arc and not different enough to counter-balance it.

Completely agree, that bit really annoyed me. It was too dramatic and it would've sounded so much better without the orchestra.

Anyway, back to Kavvy fainting, ROTFLMAO!!!

[iLemon]

btw, when they were looking for the Goa'uld why couldnt they have just done a scan? It would've been easier and simpler and save a lot of time

[Callie]

Where was the Tea Service of Impending Death? I just rewatched Thirty Eight Minutes and there was the big scene when Halling and his cronies brought in a tray of what looked like afternoon tea to help Teyla prepare for death, saying that it was a big deal among the Athosians to have a ritual prayer ceremony when they knew they were about to die.

I suppose they could have had the ceremony for Charin offscreen and shortly before she died – maybe even before she was moved into the Infirmary – but rewatching the earlier episode reminded me that it was missing.

[ToasterOnFire]

Kavanagh- love him even more, now. He's still a complete jackass, and yet now we have a glimpse of something more going on. My guess as for why he's always hanging around Novak is that he has a "thing" for her (this could be why he keeps going back and forth- more time to spend with her). But being the arrogant prick that he is, he could never admit it and can't lower his guard enough to tell her how he feels.

Aw Shadow, your shippy side is peeking out!! Who's making the Kav/Novak thread?

Oh, and TOF, forget the whole "people questioning Weir's authority get the smackdown" thing, let's look at anyone who tries to usurp Shep's authority: the first two get wraithed and now Caldwell is snaked. Dangerous job, being a military commander in Atlantis...

Yeah, there is that unfortunate theme as well. Thank goodness Caldwell wasn't killed and

Spoiler:

that he gets fixed and appears in later eps this season.

I just hope they don't kill him off later. I'd much rather see Caldwell reach an understanding with Weir and Shep and everyone help each other. After all, both Weir and Shep were thrown into these jobs a bit unprepared and Caldwell does have a lot of expertise, especially with military matters. The whole "Caldwell doesn't like how Weir and Shep run Atlantis. He's such a meanie!!" attitude doesn't sit well with me.

Where was the Tea Service of Impending Death? I just rewatched Thirty Eight Minutes and there was the big scene when Halling and his cronies brought in a tray of what looked like afternoon tea to help Teyla prepare for death, saying that it was a big deal among the Athosians to have a ritual prayer ceremony when they knew they were about to die.

Bwa!
I think that the main difference here is that Teyla's "grannie" was about to die from natural causes, something quite rare with Athosians. Halling et al knew that Teyla was proabably going to die in 38 Minutes so they had time to prepare a ritual, but her death still would have been unnatural. So it's really more the Tea Service of Unnatural Impending Death.