Critical Mass (213)

[not so ancient]

I agree. The second she started singing I was like OH NO! They're ruining the show! But then it all fit together and I have say Bravo Zulu to the writers and producers. It was beautifully done and totally added to the drama. They took a risk by doing this and I think they passed with flying colors.

I liked Teyla's storyline here a lot, but with this reservation: it didn't really feel that connected to the rest of the episode.

The music was like Loreena McKennitt. That's all good.

[Dannygirl]

Is this Caldwell's last epi or is he on till the end of the season? I thought I read something where he was signed on for 8 ep's. This would be about 8 now, right?

Don't worry about Caldwell

The way you said that makes me want to go to the spoilers section to find out what you meant, but I won't. You've definitely given me something to look foreward to though.

I really loved Teyla's song and Rachel has a beautiful voice. I wish it had been a little less staged, as in not recorded in a sound studio with a choral backdrop. A more natural accapella delivery might have been more effective. But I did love the cuts back and forth between the tension at the control center and Teyla's "goodbye" to her friend.

I agree with you on this. To have had her sing it accapella would have been beautiful. Hopefully in the future.

[nccjones]

Ok....I finally was able to watch it for a second time. This episode is definately my all time favorite. If you watch closely, and it would be hard to pick up the first time because no on suspected him, Caldwell reacts funny twice that I saw. The first time was during the first transmission from earth there is a shot of Caldwell and he turns his face and I can almost swear that his eyes are about to glow. The second time, is when hiccup girl says that earth is not where the detonator is, but on Atlantis. Caldwell definately reacts to it and it's a look like...dang, they're figuring it out. Then he goes on to say that they are to return to help with the investigation. Later on, it's him who insists on doing the investigation (which I did pick up the first time when it was revealed it was him). But those first two reactions I did not get till the second viewing.

Great acting on Mitch Peleggi's part!

[HirogenGater]

Great way to bring the Goa'uld into Atlantis. I have to admit I didn't suspect Col. Caldwell at all.

[maxbo]

I loved this episode. The only thing that could’ve made it better is if it had been a two-parter because there was so much going on that it sometimes felt a bit rushed.

So much to love:

Zelenka: Anytime he’s on is a treat and he was hilarious here. After his visit to the planet of the kids, his dislike for children will probably exceed Rodney’s.

The SG-1 Team: It was good to see the team again and Dr. Lee’s “Lord of the Rings” analogy was priceless.

Novak: Loved her.

Carson: What can I say? I love this man. From his “Of course, Luv, say no more” through his scenes with Charin and Teyla, he was a gem. Although he had trouble dealing with just standing by and allowing Charin to die, he respected her (and Teyla’s wishes) enough to not try to pressure her.

Rodney: There was just the right amount of Rodney. His role was significant, but not so much that this was the Rodney McKay hour. I also loved that he was the voice of caution during the discussion of possibly torturing Kavanaugh.

Teyla: She was incredible. Her love, her pain, her respect for Charin was beautifully portrayed. Although she would have given anything to have more time with Charin, out of respect and love for Charin, she let her go as she wished.

The Ring Ceremony: was beautiful and I loved the significance of it. A Ring ceremony must be an event that few have witnessed and to have one for the *grandmother* of the leader must have been especially poignant. It’s sort of fitting that this event was so momentous for some that, in the midst of an evacuation crisis, they chose to stay with Teyla to be a part of it.

Elizabeth and Kavanaugh: Their scenes were incredible. Kavanaugh is a great love-to-hate guy and he was on target about Elizabeth’s leadership style. She often does lead with her emotions and it’s an endearing, albeit dangerous, leadership style and she clearly realized it here. In their second scene, it’s almost as if she took his words to heart because she realized that she had to as Caldwell put it “do unpleasant things to save lives” and unfortunately for Kavanaugh that meant considering authorizing his torture.

Caldwell: Didn’t see that one coming and that scene played out well. Smart thinking on John’s part to use that tazer (or whatever it’s called) on Caldwell instead of shooting him. It’s going to be interesting to see if there is any significant difference in the way he interacts with people in the future.

Ronon and Kavanaugh: The funniest scene of the show for me.

I loved the whole bombing relay plan that the Go’uld set in place to try to destroy Atlantis. It forced everyone to try to stay sharp and also forced them to make drastic decisions. I hope the writers plan carry over some of what happened here into later episodes.

[Mattathias2.0]

I completely loved this episode (after watching it a third time in 2 days with my DVR).

This episode had so much going on in it.

I loved how alot of the teaser took place in the SGC! I loved how this episode spanned 2 galaxies... Boy have we come a long way.

1. Goa'uld infiltrate Atlantis! Awesome indeed. And for thos of us who saw SG-1 8.01/2 New Order, she has some experience with Goa'uld.

2. Teyla. I loved this part of the episode alot. It's been quite some time (I think since The Gift) that we have seen some culture regarding her people. I do think the singing was a little corny, but it was better than nothing.

3. Interrogations. I wasn't surprised she interrogated that dude who dislikes her. What I was surprised about was how far she was willing to go... This clearly shows how the season is now progressing to a darker place.

4. Ronan. For once I can say that in this episode that he was more himself than I have ever seen him. He seemed so relax. I loved when he asked what a Goa'uld was.

5. Goa'uld afraid of the Wraith? Wow, but then I can see why. They do have a nasty habit of hiding behind religion, to which the Wraith have none. The Wraith wouldn't care if they faced a Goa'uld - all food to them.

Overall... Excellent, excellent episode.

For this week, Atlantis gets my vote, while last week and the week before, it was SG-1.

Mattathias

[derrickh]

There's no indication that an Athosian would refuse almost *all* medical treatment. Halling's broken leg was set. Teyla has been under Beckett's care. So, um, not so much with the Christian Scientist thing.

And why would that be comforting?

It's comforting because up until this point, the Athosian religion has been vague. It's nice that thought was put into that aspect of thier culture.

Have I missed some statements of yours about McKay or Sheppard or Beckett being criminal psychotic warped sickos? If so, I'm sure you'll supply your 'diagnosis' or 'legal judgment' for our edification.

Sheesh!

No need for me to go too deep. Weir sent Ronan in to torture a member of the Atlantis team. Torture against US and International law. Period. There are no exceptions in that law.

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004.../usint8614.htm

International and U.S. law prohibits torture and other ill-treatment of any person in custody in all circumstances. The prohibition applies to the United States during times of peace, armed conflict, or a state of emergency. Any person, whether a U.S. national or a non-citizen, is protected. It is irrelevant whether the detainee is determined to be a prisoner-of-war, a protected person, or a so-called “security detainee” or “unlawful combatant.” And the prohibition is in effect within the territory of the United States or any place anywhere U.S. authorities have control over a person. In short, the prohibition against torture and ill-treatment is absolute.

Weir is a criminal. That part is fact. The discussion should really be about who should take command of Atlantis once she's gone.

D

[SGalisa]

first, in sync with another topic "Rachel Luttrell - Beyond the night mp3"
for: "Beyond the Night" music... (and lots of other details)

Originally posted by Agent_Dark:
Some traditional Athosian music begins to play (think native, stringed and wind instruments) and Teyla begins to sing for the ceremony.

not sure, but I think the stringed instrument we saw is a version of the celtic harp.

While reading thru this topic, again there always ends up a
...*SG vs. BSG* (reference)...??
While watching and listening I had a feeling some comments might show up in this topic stating this music had a BSG feel to it, since BSG has been using celtic-like music for a sort of alien feel for people not *familiar* with it. But before there was BSG, there was "Highlander: The (TV) Series". So, aside from having a *real* Scottish actor on the SG:Atlantis set, another answer could probably, actually be "Highlander: The Series" as one of the original sources of inspiration behind the musical choice, not BSG.

I searched high and low for this on the Isle of Skye with Duncan MacLeod as the source... "Highlander" had an ep with the haunting and beautiful celtic tune of
"Bonny Portmore", arranged by Roger Bellon and sung by Laura Creamer.
Highlander's "Bonny Portmore" came lonnnnnng before the current 2003-2006 BSG series showed up on TV. And before SGA and BSG, there was Earth: Final Conflict (air dates: late 1990's), which also incorporated Gaelic music into the background now and then. So where did BSG get its *celtic* inspiration from?

I thought of this... and also remembered hearing on a news radio program a many months ago, that celtic music has become very popular over recent years (hmmmmm... does the entire "Highlander" TV series/movies have anything to do with *that* particular popularity???).

Also, would SGA's celtic inspiration -to "Beyond the Night" music- have any connections to there being a *real* Scottish actor on the set, playing Dr. Carson Beckett... would bringing this song into the SGA series therefore be an honorable tribute to him and his native Scotland?? (I *like* when TPTB do that for the actors and crew).

If any of the above is even remotely true, then BSG might not be the source, even tho I've read some comments believing it is. From the first moment I heard this type of similar music on BSG, I have enjoyed the Gaelic *lilt* on BSG (not sure if it's Scottish or Irish), and often thought of it's origins as being inspired from the *Highlander* (clan MacLeod) fame.


I *really* liked CRITICAL MASS from start to finish... so it's going to be gushing praise from me...
I also liked the blending of the SGC hq with SGA's predicament... leaving Atlantis hang without help from the SGC reminded me of when the entire SGA team first arrived at Atlantis in Season 1's "Rising" episode.

Originally posted by xfkirsten:
-Kavanagh - the man I love to hate. He got some great scenes in this one. Being verbally shot down by an Asgard - how embarrassing! I also love how he fainted, that was priceless.

Originally posted by TOA:
2) Hermiod ... As an added bonus Hermiod dislikes Kavangh even more than the rest of us! And he told him to shut up!!!! I love Hermiod!!!

Actually, Hermiod did use the word "Please"
"Please... *Shut Up!!*"

Originally posted by TOA:
1) Sensitive pony tail guy - aka Kavangh - and once again he *****ed out Weir

I thought he was much nicer about how he *phrased* it this time...

Originally posted by prion:
Zelenka with his new 'do'. Priceless.

agreed...oh my!! *sigh*

[SGalisa]

(sorry) more...

Originally posted by caty:
They also wrapped it up pretty good at the end, with Teyla singing in the background while the others thought Atlantis would be destoryed.

that's a very beautiful way of describing it...
the *ring* itself was symbolic to the entire *Stargate* gate, itself, and therefore perfectly fit within that peculiar *ring-thing* SG theme.

I also didn't think the search for the Goa'uld montage was out of sequence at all, since part of the song was referring to
"...the battle's won. The Battle is won."

Originally posted by starfox:
... (although come to think of it, "Beyond the Night" at a dark moment - realizing one of their own is a spy - is somewhat appropriate).

hmmmmm,
"Beyond the Night" at a dark moment
reinforces my previous thoughts even better...

I didn't think I'd like Teyla's personal sidestory in this ep, but it shed light on her emotions and gently dove into what a person who doesn't want to let go of a loved one experiences. Teyla didn't want to let go. Charin (Jarin? sp) was ready to welcome resting from the fears of always fleeing from the Wraith. Installing a pacemaker would merely provoke time to add more fears, and I think Charin was well aware of that -she was ready to leave *peacefully* before the Wraith got a 2nd opportunity on her life.

Most people tend to accept life as it is, and often we viewers forget that somewhere, "what if..." someone actually has to struggle with such an event? To Teyla's people, Wraith feeding on humans is normal, humans dying young is normal, but according to Teyla: *ring ceremonies* are rare and therefore ultimately have a special meaning to a person's heart. That's why it becomes beautiful. The "Beyond the Night" music enhanced that special moment.

How many times have viewers watched Xena where a deceased Amazon sister was wrapped in shrouded cloths, and then burned on the peer with Xena or someone else singing the death song? That's what it reminded me of. I was relieved they didn't show Charin's body being burned on the peer, if it was creamated first at all.

Originally posted by starfox:
I agree that the song would have been better in another language...

I thought if hearing the song in a different language would make it even better (which Xena's eps did when those times came), but then the lyrics might not have rhymed in SGA's "Critical Mass" ...and we wouldn't have understood any of it, so the *special* meaning behind it might be forever lost.

Originally posted by Merlin7:
Rachel has a lovely voice but the music playing for her ruined the effect. They didn't have musicians there.

imagination believes they were beyond the visible *ring* of light, in their own corner. Maybe this helps:

Originally posted by Jonzey:
In the first few seconds of the music when the camera is kinda looking in the direction from the head of dead women (i forget her name) to her feet. And I counted one guy with two big tribal drum thingys and a couple of other people with big stringed instruments which I coudn't identify.

What room did the *ring* ceremony take place in? It appeared to be a room with an open circular skylight, thus giving the symbolic *ring* effect. I didn't see any of the ceremonial stones, which would have been there if this scene took place on the mainland.

[PG15]

Weir is a criminal. That part is fact. The discussion should really be about who should take command of Atlantis once she's gone.

D

What would you have done?

[derrickh]

What would you have done?

I would not have tortured anyone.

I would've conducted a competent investigation instead of focusing on someone because of negative personal feelings. I would've went to the people that Kavanough sent the coded messages to and found out what they said. I would've put a huge effort into cracking the code. I would've done everything I could to solve the problem.

I would not have tortured anyone.

Being a leader isn't just about making hard choices. It's about making the right choices.

D

[Schrodinger82]

I don't mind trying to cover current events and politics into scifi, but I found this episode to be incredibly heavy handed and overdone. This isn't Battlestar Galactica, and when Weir and Co started contemplating the use of torture, I couldn't help but crack up laughing. It was just so forced and unnatural that I had a hard time believing it.

Perhaps I would have taken this episode more seriously if there had been more stakes. e.g., if someone had actually been attacked or killed, or if a part of the city had actually been damaged, whatever. But in this episode, all we get are two off camera Wraith Cruisers. Writers, here's a tip: Show me, don't tell me.

The fact is, we already know going into this that Atlantis isn't going to be blown up. So the threat just isn't there for me. In order for the epsiode to resonant, there needed to be some sort of immeadiate threat, that could reasonably happen in the context of the show (and better yet, which WOULD reasonably happen in the context of the show.). We didn't get that.

The other issue, "He fainted before I could do anything!" was such a copout. It would have been a lot more interesting if John and Weir had actually gotten their hands dirty in the matter. Suppose they said, "I don't trust this job to Ronan because he might lose control, so if anyone is going to torture the guy, then it's going to be us." Another tip to the writers: If you're going to give the characters a tough decision, then give that decision to people who WOULDN'T want to do it. That's what we call internal conflict.

The funny thing is, I personally agree with the idea with the idea that we shouldn't torture prisoners for information. The problem is that the episode didn't really have anything except the message, and so it ended up being done extremely poorly.

[xfkirsten]

I would not have tortured anyone.

I would've conducted a competent investigation instead of focusing on someone because of negative personal feelings. I would've went to the people that Kavanough sent the coded messages to and found out what they said. I would've put a huge effort into cracking the code. I would've done everything I could to solve the problem.

I would not have tortured anyone.

Being a leader isn't just about making hard choices. It's about making the right choices.

D

Maybe they couldn't find exactly who he sent the messages to - they never said they didn't try to find out. And say you can't crack the code in time. Weir didn't authorize torture until there was 24 minutes left before the city would be "vaporized." A lot of the evidence DID point to Kavanagh then. When you've only got minutes left until the city (and everyone in it) is obliterated, what would you do then? Wait for your own doom, when the evidence suggests that he might have an answer?

If she'd done it earlier, I'd agree with you. Is she a war criminal? I'd suppose so, in a technical sense. But I see things in shades of gray. The lives of so many were in very immediate danger, and she was following the evidence that they had in an attempt to save the lives of all involved.

[CalmStorm]

Is she a war criminal? I'd suppose so, in a technical sense. But I see things in shades of gray. The lives of so many were in very immediate danger, and she was following the evidence that they had in an attempt to save the lives of all involved.

Very much shades of grey

There has been much discussion on current laws and treaties and trying to make them applicable to the situations and decisions made by the Atlantis expedition...and primarily Weir. However, I just don't think that something like current US laws and the Geneva Convention factor into the Pegasus Galaxy and the current situtation there. The laws and treaties never took into consideration alien races, one of which has the main goal of feasting on humans, or circumstances such as the ones being faced in this setting. I imagine that, with the addition of this knowledge, those laws and treaties would probably be significantly different than they are now. Especially with all that is at stake.

[the fifth man]

Personally, I feel it was a very difficult choice for Weir. She just was running out of time and options fast. If I had been in her shoes, I may have made the same decision. Luckily, no torturing had to take place.