Epiphany (212)

[dosed150]

i expected shep to actually have an epiphany anyone actually notice this or was it not there

[Merlin7]

Well..to say I was disappointed with EPIPHANY is putting it mildly. I wish we had seen the EP that Joe had pitched the SL for. Cause this wasn't it and I felt bad for HIM and for ME.

I loved the beginning. I loved Shep in the cave. That stuff was great. The team realizing it's just minutes for them but hours/days for Shep. Shep trying to keep up the hope then going off to fend for himself. All fab. Joe was amazing in the cave. Loved it. Actually...loved him for the whole ep.

But then they had to ruin it with the rest of the stuff. The beast was stupid. I felt like Shep at the end. "THAT'S IT? THat's all it took?" Or however the lines went. That was beyond anti climatic. I guess maybe that was the point but it makes for blah viewing.

Like HIVE..this tried to pack too many scenes in instead of focusing on one issue. I wanted the backstory. Another promise TPTB make but don't keep.

I could have accepted NOT getting it if the focus had been more about John and his abandoment issues and if we had a tag scene on Atlantis where he's maybe on the balcony, or whatever, and it's discussed. It was a big deal to him. His reaction to seeing the team said it all then it's just dumped. They could have cut the team fighting the beast scene down to ten seconds. WE GET IT!

I enjoyed the team worrying about him and the intensity. Joe was fab through out. The chick was creepy/weird. They could have skipped that stuff. I would have loved more of Shep and the little girl. Joe and that girl were so sweet/adorable. More of her GIFTS and the fact they said he could join them. Really? How is that? He's not ANCIENT..is he? Are they? They'd have to be right?

Plot holes and stupid storytelling. Droppage of the ball again.

But...Joe was great. He gave me a few more layers to Shep, as always. I'll take em.

[caty]

He's usually pretty sharp about any sort of wrongness in his environment (see "Home"), but it seems like he was so caught up on the fact that the others weren't coming for him that he couldn't think through the why of it. Is he really doubting that his team, Weir, Beckett, et al. care for him? He seems aware he has issues with being left like this, but this self-knowledge doesn't keep him from feeling the way he does.

Well, I don't think there was any way as to how Sheppard could have known that time travels faster for him. It was not mentioned at all before he was pulled in and he didn't have the camcorder either, so how could he possibly have figured that out?
Anyway, I agree with you that he should know his team wouldn't abandon him, and I think deep down, he knows there must be a reason for them to stay away. However, the way he acts lets me know that there must have been something similar in his past(like somebody left him in enemy hands, somebody he expected to come back for him) and he never really got over that. So his vision might be a little clouded.

What's more, I find Sheppard's penchant to fly off and die for just about anyone really fascinating in light of the abandonment issues. I mean, wow, talk about being selectively blind. Sheppard clearly has problems leaving people behind or being left himself, but he doesn't realize he's doing just that when he, say, takes it upon himself to get in a jumper and make a suicide bombing run on a hive ship. Sure, that was for a good cause, but it's striking that it never occurs to him that he doesn't (even shouldn't because of his military responsibilities) have to make the run himself. Nor does he stop to consider how his decision might hurt others.

Hey, what are you doing with poor Shep? I don't think you can call risking your life for others 'leaving poeple behind', because that is an entirely different story. What he dispises is when you leave people behind without trying everything humanly possible to save them first, even if it means risking your own life, because you are too scared or the chances aren't that good.
He hates abandoning people for selfish reasons and that's also why he is always the first one to volunteer for everything. "The leader is the most expendable part of the team." --that could have been written for him! He'd never send in somebody else, because he is too important!

(How many times have we seen poor Rodney, the woobie, make that face, his Siege II face, because he thinks John's up and gotten killed before he could save the stupid, self-sacrificing idiot? Teyla knows, too, that the man is his own worst enemy sometimes. Talk about high maintenance!)

Fist of all... Sheppard is "The Woobie"!
And Sheppard is also the HERO of the show and he has proved often enough that you can hardly call him 'stupid idiot'...


And something else: What exactly does 'Epiphany' as a title for the episode mean? I looked it up in my dictionary, but all it said was 'Christan festival on the 6th of January', nothing symbolic...

[Agent_Dark]

And something else: What exactly does 'Epiphany' as a title for the episode mean? I looked it up in my dictionary, but all it said was 'Christan festival on the 6th of January', nothing symbolic...

'A revelatory manifestation of a divine being'

'A sudden manifestation of the essence or meaning of something'

'A comprehension or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization: “I experienced an epiphany, a spiritual flash that would change the way I viewed myself” (Frank Maier).'

http://www.answers.com/epiphany

It probably has to do with the humans ascending, since Sheppard didn't exactly make any other sudden reveleations about himself or anything in particular. But even the ascension thing wasn't really 'a sudden realisation' or anything...

[AutumnDream]

Maybe the title is a leftover from Joe's original story.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I just saw the ep. It was okay viewing but nothing fancy.

The story reminded me of an existential SF novel I read in school about twins who found a shed inside which time went faster. One of the twins - the skinny, gentle, feminized, picked-on-by-his-big-athletic brother one - decided to spend the night inside the shed so that when he emerged he'd be a year older than his brother and of course, he grew into a real man. Anybody recognize it?

It also reminded me of the Star Trek NG ep where Picard lives out an entire lifetime- marrying, having children and grandchildren, in 28 minutes. Now that was a well-done episode - my fav of all the ST eps ever.

MacKay got on my nerves this week. Consistancy is all good and well, but his character needs to evolve a bit; he needs to save the attitude for special occasions - as it is they tend to pop up five or six times per episode....

I figured that the beast represented the sum of their fears when it got near the village and after that conversation with his GF, I figured out how Sheppard would "defeat" it.

It was good to see Weir use her translation skills, and a nice nod to the much more fascinating Before I Sleep.

[AutumnDream]

Between his dissociative approach to violence and personal relationships, the occasional crazy! moments, the abandonment issues, and suicidal tendencies, Sheppard's turning out to be a real headcase.

Yeah! That is SO cool. I love him for it. Him and McKay are probably the most unique characters in SG canon so far. I actually like that everything about Sheppard is so concealed. He's like a walking enigma, with a kind smile and a wicked sense of humor that makes you forget all about the mysteries... until you actually remember.

Regarding the Ancient stuff, I don't really have any expectations that the expedition will manage to find and keep anything, besides Atlantis, for a good, long time. I whine and whine and whine about the lack of information about the Wraith, Sheppard, and the Ancients, I know, but I can understand that SGA is only in its second season and all mysteries have to be dragged out. Most of the time.

Well, you're right. They do have Atlantis. I mean they STARTED with the coolest thing the ancients ever made. (I presume...) That makes up for even 1000 years of not finding anything else.

Now that I think of the episode from a plot device standpoint, it's a bit weird.

First: Why was there a time dilation field? Answer: To provide the character Sheppard a chance to experience a great deal of time in an unfamiliar environment without causing that much time to pass in the "real" world. Without severely messing with the established setting.

Why would they do this? Answer: To offer insight into Sheppard's current character, to develop the character, and generally to show various things about him.

Was any of this really done, to the full extent that it could have been? To the extent that Teyla was explored in The Gift or more?

No.

Why then, would they choose to put ancients in the time field with him, rather than some other random race? Answer: To provide plot development pertaining to the ancients, to provide some sort of connection between Sheppard and the ancients, or to better achieve the character development goals for Sheppard. Was any of this done?

We found out minimal amounts of information about the ancients, most of which we already knew.

Personally, I would have used a different time dilation ratio, so that weeks would have passed for Atlantis and Sheppard would have been gone about a year. It would have been much more dramatic and worrysome for Weir and company, and it wouldn't have eaten up too much time in the series.

This episode just doesn't make sense. It almost feels like nothing happened. There wasn't that "Omg! What's this all about? So captivating!" feeling I had in 17 out of 20 Season 1 episodes.

[Willow'sCat]

Oh this is the SG-1 "100 Days" episode of SGA. Didn't Joe Flanigan have a hand in the writing or am I thinking of another episode?

And yeah you have to love the fact that the female is Hot and has discovered Californian style eyebrow waxing techniques. Wow two hot women in two episodes Shepps the man.

[Excali5033]

The story reminded me of an existential SF novel I read in school about twins who found a shed inside which time went faster. One of the twins - the skinny, gentle, feminized, picked-on-by-his-big-athletic brother one - decided to spend the night inside the shed so that when he emerged he'd be a year older than his brother and of course, he grew into a real man. Anybody recognize it?

Singularity, by William Sleator. This was the first thing to come to my mind, as well.

[Liverpool_chicK]

I agree with some of you. About 10 minutes into this epi, I realized to myself that I had seen this story idea before, or several of them. It did remind me of 100 days, and A Matter of Time. I don't know if it was me, but I was not impress with this epi at all. Not one of there best.

[Scarym1]

I enjoyed this ep. It was sort of odd too. How they defeat the beast at the end was sappy. I loved the humor. When Rodney compared Ronan and Teyla to Conan and Xena I just lost it!!! I like how Rodney admitted that he couldn't fly the jumper in a straight line and that he didn't trust Beckett to fly it.

I couldn't quite hear it but did Rodney admit that the idea for the probe was Zelenka idea. He mumbled it just after Carson said it was a great idea.

Sheppard was funny with his "Can you hear me now?" and that he didn't have a volleyball to talk with.

It started out great got sappy in the middle and ended nicely. I like how that ascended lady told Rodney to leave the ZPM and the generator alone.

[xfkirsten]

'A revelatory manifestation of a divine being'

'A sudden manifestation of the essence or meaning of something'

'A comprehension or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization: “I experienced an epiphany, a spiritual flash that would change the way I viewed myself” (Frank Maier).'

http://www.answers.com/epiphany

It probably has to do with the humans ascending, since Sheppard didn't exactly make any other sudden reveleations about himself or anything in particular. But even the ascension thing wasn't really 'a sudden realisation' or anything...

That was basically my take on the title - that it's the villagers that had the epiphany, not Sheppard. I don't know that it was the ascension itself that was the epiphany, though... IMHO, the epiphany to them was that yes, they really could defeat this beast by themselves and gain ascension that way. They definitely had a pretty sudden change of heart about that.

[Agent_Dark]

That was basically my take on the title - that it's the villagers that had the epiphany, not Sheppard. I don't know that it was the ascension itself that was the epiphany, though... IMHO, the epiphany to them was that yes, they really could defeat this beast by themselves and gain ascension that way. They definitely had a pretty sudden change of heart about that.

Yeah that's what I figured too... But it seems kind of a weak reference to me though, considering the 'Villagers figure out' was a bit lame.

[xfkirsten]

Yeah that's what I figured too... But it seems kind of a weak reference to me though, considering the 'Villagers figure out' was a bit lame.

Ah, no argument there!

[AutumnDream]

What does that MEAN? He "gave them the strength to realize it" or whatever. I'm all for being analytical with literature, but that wasn't a cleverly crafted metaphor or complexity, it was just rushed. Especially because I think it showed him in the cave more than it actually showed in connecting with the villagers.

In A Hundred Days, you could really feel O'Neill starting to be part of the community. I think Sheppard was more reluctant than that, but it really did seem like he was only there a couple of hours.