Originally posted by Blue Banrigh
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The Hive (211)
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My kind of guy:
"Hewlett states that he is a self proclaimed computer nerd who loves small dark rooms and large computers."
Member of MAGIC: McKay's A Genius Intergalactic Club and ADB: Adores David's Blog
(subsidiaries of DHD: David Hewlett's Domain).
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So the Wraith are territorial... and very hungry... So when there's not enough to go around, they obviously don't like sharing... They do it but grudgingly it would seem. As the title suggests, the Hive is a colony, a ship and a place swarming with activity but interestingly enough though there is some, there isn't a lot of it... activity, I mean. I wonder about that... And I suspect that Carl Binder is more interested in the battle within than the battle from without. The Wraith are numerous and are formidable in strength so fighting on that front is a lost cause. Ultimately to defeat the Wraith (or any other evil), the mind is really the key.
The Wraith is the obvious and immediate evil... they're big, bad and ugly... They rule the roost and overrun the galaxy. Furthermore, they have the upperhand in the hive ship. Along comes another... and sits down beside her and after whispering doubts in the right ears, Sheppard gets them to blow each other away. He works out that hot alien chick #3 is a plant (to pick his brains), at the opportune moment casts aspersions on the other ship's intentions and finally manipulates existing tensions to his advantage. The mind overcomes the adversary.
Then there is there is also the enzyme... another evil which must be battled... Beckett says to Weir that Rodney is alive only through sheer "stubborness"... Ford's paranoia is a battle for lucidity... again the mind...
I really liked this episode... I loved the role reversal. The action-based characters incapacitated by the enzyme (or the lack of it). It was both jarring and amusing to see Rodney in kick ass mode while Ronon and Teyla, with all their skills were trapped and helpless. True, there wasn't much action in it but I liked the character interactions. The little moments between characters. The care and concern. But my favourite was the one between Beckett and Weir... it was strangely moving. In fact, it was a lovely moment to see Beckett sitting at Rodney's bedside watching over him. I also liked that the moment between Sheppard and Ford... "We'll work it out together. As a team, remember?" and Ford saying, "I remember". Very poignant. In fact, just thinking about it... makes me a tad teary...
And it was wonderful to see some semblance of the old Ford at the end...
Call me strange, but I'm glad that the Daedalus was useless in this instance. (Probably a red herring) It's good to see good o'l fashion human ingenuity saving the day rather than the might of brute force.
(The lack of Wraith patrolling the corridors I take it to be the fact that the majority are finding their way to darts and getting ready for the culling. )
To me Atlantis is about flawed human beings trying to find their way in extraordinary situations. Sometimes they succeed and sometimes they don't.sigpic
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
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Originally posted by YeadeHi, Ouroboros!
I have to agree with you here. The pacing felt... off. Though I think this has a lot to do with the fact that events happened over the course of several days, at the very least. Without resorting to the Musical Montage(tm), I can't think what else might have been done to show the passage of time besides dropping references here and there. Which was done.
LOL! It really seems more likely that the doors would freeze in place, doesn't it? However, I'm willing to forgive this particular plot device simply because it tends to crop up at some point or another in nearly every sci-fi show I can think of.
This, I have to admit, I don't remember. The Wraith cells have irregularly shaped bars, yes, but I have the passing impression that the gaps are all too small for Teyla or anyone else to do much else except stick out an arm, maybe a shoulder. Also---a speculation that is only loosely based in canon---I wonder whether the bars are organic and sentient enough to contract if a prisoner attempts to squeeze out. They certainly display an impressive flexibility in retracting. At any rate, maybe a cap would help?
You light some of those hoops on fire and Teyla could jump through them as a circus act.
Agreed. A lost opportunity to up the tension. There did seem to be too much packed into the episode already though.
Well, I don't think the Wraith enzyme exactly counts as "every drug," and it's the only addiction storyline SGA has pursued. Since nearly everything about the Wraith is completely fictitious, I don't see any reason to deride the fact that the enzyme withdrawal is the way it is.
IIRC, this is the first time we've been aboard a hive ship and in direct contact with the Wraith (never mind the hive queen) while another hive ship approached in and dropped out of hyperspace. The only other times we've even seen hive ships, they've either been alone ("Rising," "The Lost Boys") or already grouped ("The Siege" and all the episodes leading up to it). Who's to say that it's not the Wraith SOP for hive queens to immediately have a psychic powwow when hive ships meet up. In fact, if the Wraith are as fiercely territorial as they seem, it makes sense that the queens have to establish boundaries as quickly as possible.
The way she stormed out all of a sudden gave the impression that something very urgent needed her attention. From what we got it looks like this was.... the fact that another hiveship wanted to fly next to them? Sure it would have been great if it was because she was pissed at the other hive trying to mozy in on her planet and we got to see her chew out the other hive keeper about being such a grabby ***** but then we never got to see that did we. No, we didn't, and that's why it sucked.
In defense of the Wraith, they did at least think up and try a more subtle method of questioning Sheppard after it appeared he could resist a mind probe. It's not the hive queen's fault that Neera didn't do all that great a job. Nor could she do anything about Sheppard being more suspicious than most about mysterious hot chicks who want to sex him up. Glad to see he learned something from the Chaya incident.
I wouldn't go so far as to say Neera's evil...
Right. Anyways. All I can think of is that the Wraith keep a few (thousand) humans around to do the housekeeping---you know, helping with the crowd control after a major cull or something---and to send out in special infiltration cases like Sheppard's.
Of course, maybe certain queens just find it amusing to toy with the humans this way. I can totally see deviant sexu... Um, never mind, lol.
That said though, where do I sign up for this. Better than worshipping some overdressed nimrod with a snake in his head that's for sure. When I get bored of my life of deviant Wraith lovin' I'll just slip out through one of the giant gaps in my holding cell, find a conveiniently placed cash of weapons and fly away in one of their darts you apparently don't need a special interface for afterall.
Again, I think it's hard to tell how much time passed between Ford being taken away and Sheppard's second chat with the hive queen.
McKay, who according to Beckett (which might not be a point in favor, I realize, lol) had enzyme levels comparable to Ford's, was more or less fully recovered. And it's not clear what effect being cocooned---if Ford was indeed cocooned---would have on Ford's condition.
As for Ford retrieving the team's weapons, both Ford and Sheppard knew their way around the hive ship. Remember that the two were studying what appeared to be the layout of a hive in "The Lost Boys."
Note, also, that while Ford had Ronon's gun, a handgun, a Wraith pistol stunner (which he likely pulled off a Wraith guard somewhere), and vests, he didn't manage to find the P90s or Ronon's badass sword.
I think. I've only watched the episode once, okay?!
Doesn't matter how much physical damage Sheppard could inflict. The point is that the Wraith were so on edge, any little misunderstanding could've driven the two hives to violent infighting.
I did like how this dart made explosions big enough that they would easily have immolated everyone in the gate room had that dart shots through the gate from rising done the same thing though. That was a nice touch.
I'm betting the hive queen holding Sheppard et al. didn't bother to inform the other queen of her prisoners. So, when Sheppard pulled his stunt, the other queen saw it as an unprovoked attack on her hive. Sheppard had already planted the seed of doubt in the mind of his queen that the other would betray her and, likely not aware of Sheppard's actions as she'd been recently knocked out and had the culling to worry about, she thought Sheppard's talk was validated when the other queen fired upon her hive. Then apply the insect mentality of mobilizing all forces to counter any threat.
Yes, yes. Agreed. I'd argue the two hives were just too carried away with trying to kill each other to notice the danger. IIRC, by that point, the Wraith were ignoring the Deddy as well in favor of what both apparently thought was the greater threat. I imagine it's similar to two mobs getting into a riot fight together---it's difficult to stop once it starts.
Another time issue. Once Sheppard finished that initial attack run, i.e. as soon as the hives started firing on each other, he hightailed it out of there. Unknown amount of time passes. Then the hives destroy each other. The stargate must not have been too far from where the battle took place.
Bondage and domination. Yum.
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Originally posted by TOA:
Oh yeah I forgot about the clowns.... in volkswagons no less... Truely a terrifying foe..
Originally posted by unknownterra:
Ferris wheels, clowns. Maybe he has some childhood related complexity where something happened at an amusemet park?
Sounds something like Stephen Kings IT.
Glad to hear Shep was (thinking) a step ahead of Neera.
Just hope that part is true, otherwise, he'd be in big heapa trouble.
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LOL, AutumnDream! Well, Joe Flanigan is real. Though I'm not sure how... He's married with kids, after all.
Anyways, we should probably save all this for the thunk thread.Originally posted by watcher652The only part I didn't get is how soon [McKay] seemed to recover from his massive overdose. It seemed really sudden and complete after the major torment he went thru. I wish we had a better idea how much time passes between scenes. But Teyla and Ronan seem not to have suffered as much as Ford's teammate who died from the withdrawal. One wonders what is the difference in McKay's massive overdose of the processed enzyme and Ford's direct dosage from a living Wraith.
I figure it couldn't have taken more than a day, at most, for McKay to get frantic about his overdue team, OD himself on the enzyme, take out Ford's goons, and dial out to Atlantis. Beckett would've gotten McKay to the infirmary immediately, but there's lost time between that, McKay waking up and raising hell, then Beckett's and McKay's later respective conversations with Weir.
(Please, please correct me if I'm remembering the sequence of events wrong.)
Going with my gut feeling about those scenes, I estimate another day, pushing two days, maybe even three, for McKay to come down off his high. Sheppard et al. weren't quite on the same timeline as McKay, but I figure three days, maybe even four, isn't that hard to swallow if you account for all the time spent being shot by stunners, regaining consciousness, being helpless prisoners, playing at darts using knives, and then going right back through another round of the same. The episode gave us all the under-ten-minute highlights.
On the severity of the enzyme withdrawal, I think the only two in danger of dying were Ford and Kanayo (who did die). Ford had arguably better moral support from Sheppard and, probably more important, got another dose of enzyme before the effects got too bad. Being cocooned--assuming he was--might also have slowed the withdrawal. Who knows? Your guess is as good as mine.
Teyla and Ronon hadn't been on the enzyme for months and months. And McKay, despite taking the massive dose, was being given less before. So... the three went through withdrawal at about the same pace? I dunno. I really don't.
Finally, I was under the impression Ford could've quit cold turkey in "The Siege" and lived to tell the tale if he hadn't gotten all paranoid and run off. Like McKay then.Don't the Wraith disarm their prisoners? Maybe they don't get many so they don't know what to look for. It's was kind of a funny joke, but, please, Ronan had that many knives?Did blowing up the the 2 hive ships also take out the planet's orbiting Stargate (which Sheppard called a Spacegate).Hey, we got a fully functioning Wraith Dart to take apart instead that crashed one from Duet.Doesn't Sheppard know the address of Ford's hideout? How was he supposed to get back there if he doesn't?Does a victim normally collapse when being restored from a Wraith beam?
edit: tagsLast edited by Yeade; 06 September 2007, 06:36 PM.The fact is I think I am a verb instead of a personal pronoun. A verb is anything that signifies to be, to do, or to suffer. I signify all three.
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Very fun episode, if a little rushed. Great injections of humour into what could have been a very gung-ho/melodramatic episode. Yaaay for the triumphant return of the full credits!
Another great performance from DH - Speeding!McKay was hilarious, his muttering at the DHD gave me "Nothing" flashbacks (Andrew: "What are you doing?" Dave (Gollum-like babbling): "I'm making a trap!" Andrew: "For what?" Dave: "The food! The food, you idiot, the food!"). Withdrawal!McKay was fantastic - all crazy, angsty pain. It's great seeing the cast getting scripts they can really sink their teeth into.
Sheppard's clown ramblings - LMFAO. Clowns, ferris wheels... this man has circus issues.
Beckett's comment about having "an inkling" of the agony McKay was going through was interesting - I wonder if that was a generic doctor-y statement, or something more specific that may be expanded upon later?
I can see the Rockett slashers having a field day with Beckett's little bedside vigil, LOL.
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Originally posted by CynicatBeckett's comment about having "an inkling" of the agony McKay was going through was interesting - I wonder if that was a generic doctor-y statement, or something more specific that may be expanded upon later?
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About the doors... if you consider "Underground", McKay had to work pretty hard to get the door open. The thing was right inside the wall. He cut open the wall and messed with something in there to make the door work. It seems like the internal mechanism behind the door is activated by touch. Like when my laptop goes off, I touch the pad and it turns on. I could throw something at it to achieve the same result.
Now, since the Queen wanted the information about the "hot new feeding spot!", she set up the thing with the planted prisoners. Did anyone actually consider that in the episode they said, "That's why they let us escape."? Obviously they put the opening mechanism for that particular cell in the open instead of in the walland left their knives on them so they'd have a means to escape so that whole plan could go through.
Seriously, the hive queens don't really strike me as the stupid type.
About the queen, she didn't need any time to "act" on the info. When Shepp told her that, she could have sent out a quick mental note to the rest of the hive to be cautious about any suspicious actions the other hive might make. About the larger explosions from the dart Sheppard was piloting as opposed to the ones in the gate room on Rising... well, it's been mentioned several times in the series so far that shooting at the dart bays causes "secondary explosions". I'm sure Sheppard aimed there to make absolute sure the hive caught on to the attacks. The larger explosions you were seeing were just secondary.
The ships blowing up so dramatically? Think of what happened when the Arcturus project blew. 5/6th of a solar system went up. McKay said that running at 50%, Arcturus would generate the power of a dozen ZPMs. Assuming when it blew up it did so at full potential, that was with the force of about 24 ZPMs. So we can guess that if even one ZPM were to become agitated and explode it would have quite the drastic effect. Now, I know wraith technology isn't as advanced, but I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that shooting at ships that have high-end power sources such as ZPMs or whatever in them can make some pretty big explosions.Last edited by AutumnDream; 22 November 2005, 09:24 PM.
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I have no problem with Sheppard flying the dart. He figured out the Puddle jumper on Atlantis. I believe the wraith tech may be simular to ancient tech. He has piloted alot of different types of crafts. I think he could figure it out plus remember some of what happened when he landed in the ship.
This clown thing with Sheppard is going to make January seem far off. I can't wait to see it."Embress your life, find what it is that you love, and pursue it with all your soul. For if you do not, when you come to die, you will find that you have not lived."
A character from the novel "Chindi" by Jack McDevitt
Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.
'Eleanor Roosevelt'
Individuality is freedom lived.
'Janis Joplin'
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Originally posted by OuroborosStop wasting your Wraith cure on former Enterprise grease monkies Beckett...
The Enterprise grease monkey would be the chief engineer Commander Charles "Trip" Tucker III, played by Connor TrinneerSpoiler:who will be the title character in the upcoming Atlantis episode "Michael".
My kind of guy:
"Hewlett states that he is a self proclaimed computer nerd who loves small dark rooms and large computers."
Member of MAGIC: McKay's A Genius Intergalactic Club and ADB: Adores David's Blog
(subsidiaries of DHD: David Hewlett's Domain).
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Originally posted by OuroborosHowdy, ready for another marathon threadMaking it all happen in a single day would have done it nicely. [snip] There wasn't anything here that really needed to take place over a long period of time.I seriously don't know how this dumb idea got started. Shooting the panel to keep guys out like in star wars is one thing and makes sense but shooting it to make the door open...You light some of those hoops on fire and Teyla could jump through them as a circus act.
I'm giving this too much thought.Yeah but most of what was there taking up all that space was kinda well...Wouldn't it have been nice to see this though, you know as opposed to Ronan and Teyla sweating. That was the core of my complaint really. All of a sudden the evil boss gets interrupted right when she's about to kill the hero and we never find out why.
Hive queen gets annoyed look and runs out of important interrogation. Another hive ship arrives. Hives have worked together without apparent conflict before. Thus, the queen is going off to confer or otherwise deal with the other queen, but the two hives are not going to immediately engage in a fight to the death.Sure it would have been great if it was because she was pissed at the other hive trying to mozy in on her planet and we got to see her chew out the other hive keeper about being such a grabby ***** but then we never got to see that did we. No, we didn't, and that's why it sucked.The wraith didn't even try to do to him what they did to Sumner. The plot couldn't afford it because it would make him into an old man. The solution, make the Wraith take the long way 'round for absolutely no good reason.Also just how exactly did the queen know they would take that specific corridoor or that they would even stop at all.Yeah but you had to be a total sci-fi newb to not know from minute 1 that she was working for them. At least the episode let the chracters notice it though instead of making them act surprised by it.That layout isn't going to tell them which one of the bazillions of rooms the Wraith locked their gear away in though is it.Yeah but you'd think that the hiveship wouldn't even notice it was under attack in this situation.I did like how this dart made explosions big enough that they would easily have immolated everyone in the gate room had that dart shots through the gate from rising done the same thing though. That was a nice touch.Another question to ask is also why were they so on edge. Shep's whole routine about working for the other queen came mere moments before the queen he was talking to got shot. She didn't have time to act on the info unless that shot didn't kill her? It did look like her ship was the one that blew the other one away though. They were in the one on the right right?
For best effect, imagine she came to as the other hive fired upon hers, already pissed about her prisoners escaping.It would have been funny if it were done in a comedy context. "Ha ha we destroyed them!... oh wait.... SH*T!!! **BOOM**"It was like one cut though.
Atlantis1, I don't mind that Sheppard can work Wraith tech so easily, per se. It's more the lack of any explanation or, indeed, even questions about this ability that gets to me. Though even this depends ultimately on how the Wraith tech works. If it works on anything like the mental/emotional interface of Ancient tech, I'm going to need something more about why Sheppard can do what he can. Ask yourself this: If Sheppard's amazingly steep and largely intuitive learning curve with Ancient tech can be attributed to a combination of his mindset and his magic ATA gene, what then can Sheppard's equally boggling use of Wraith tech be attributed to?
edit: tagsLast edited by Yeade; 01 September 2007, 12:30 PM.The fact is I think I am a verb instead of a personal pronoun. A verb is anything that signifies to be, to do, or to suffer. I signify all three.
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Originally posted by CynicatBeckett's comment about having "an inkling" of the agony McKay was going through was interesting - I wonder if that was a generic doctor-y statement, or something more specific that may be expanded upon later?
Originally posted by CynicatI can see the Rockett slashers having a field day with Beckett's little bedside vigil, LOL.
All in all, not my favorite ep. Some good moments yes, but very little cohesion and then there were the time issues. But the bad has already been brought out, so a few of my favorite parts:
When Ronon and Teyla are in the cell and Ronon gives warrior-y advice. Not the words so much (because c'mon, trite as hell) but the way Jason Momoa delivered them. I've been on the fence about Ronon since his introduction; this was the moment I felt that okay, here's a human being capable of thinking of other people, and I can like this guy. Plus, I really think that Ronon and Teyla have a sibling-esque relationship going on, and this was just a great moment of interaction with them.
Also, the fact that Teyla was so visibly worried about Ford was a plus. Way to show us something resembling character with this woman.
John calling Ford Aiden and Ford calling Shep John: just too great. Hearing John come out of Ford's mouth sounded a bit odd, but it showed how they were no longer CO and subordinate, but friends.
Everyone else seemed to love enzyme-d out Rodney, and while I agree that DH did a pretty good job there (although I think it leant a little too far to the humorous, I would have preferred a more frightening freak-out), my favorite Rodney scene was when he was making the decision to take the enzyme. That was a moment that hit me. His sense of self-preservation dueling with his loyalty to the team. I felt that, and it was good.
Minor problem w/McKay in this ep: Writers, we get it, he's a geek. Now can we actually see him a bit more? Make us worry about him for once instead of making us laugh at him. It would expand his dynamic with the other characters so much.
Another problem I had with this ep: Where was McKay's GDO? Are we just supposed to assume that he grabbed that out of Ford's office, too? And I want a radio in the GDO, so even if the earpieces are lost Atlantis can get voice confirmation of an IDC.
Neera curling up with Sheppard: anyone else think, "wow, he really *is* Kirk"?
And Shep looking so adorably awkward and figuring out that Neera is a plant and wanting her to get the hell away from him but not wanting to tip his hand to early...all great.
All in all, a mediocre episode with some good moments. The acting far outshined the writing here. I expected more after a wait this long, but I'll just have to hope "Epiphany" is better.They say the geek never gets the girl...what about the girl getting the geek?
Rodney/Teyla...it could happen
spoilers for "200"
Spoiler:Gen. Hammond: It has to spin, it's round! Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning. I'm the general, and I want it to spin!
********
Vala: Are you saying that General O'Neill is...
Cam: My daddy?
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Originally posted by CynicatBeckett's comment about having "an inkling" of the agony McKay was going through was interesting - I wonder if that was a generic doctor-y statement, or something more specific that may be expanded upon later?
I did not take it to mean that Carson had any personal experience with drug withdrawal, although I think drug taking is a bigger problem among doctors than the general population because of their easier access to drugs.
My kind of guy:
"Hewlett states that he is a self proclaimed computer nerd who loves small dark rooms and large computers."
Member of MAGIC: McKay's A Genius Intergalactic Club and ADB: Adores David's Blog
(subsidiaries of DHD: David Hewlett's Domain).
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