The Hive (211)

[rarocks24]

I have a question, but was the Queen um, projecting erotic images in Shep's mind when she was interrogating him? Cuz he was acting pretty um...yeah. Just curious. Thanks.

[Catsitter]

Like many others on this thread, I found this episode a bit of a letdown. There didn't seem to be too much danger to our heroes from the Wraith. I think it would have been a good idea to show a Wraith feeding on somebody, obviously not one of our heroes, but surely they could have used one of Ford's redshirts for the purpose? And the episode didn't really hang together and work as a classic end of a two-parter because instead of everybody doing their bit to defeat the enemy, the Daedalus might just as well not have been there, and Rodney only really managed to save himself. And Teyla and Ronon were really only along for the ride (but I suppose that's true in most episodes...) It would have been more satisfying if the Daedalus had connected with Shep somehow. And that would have avoided the problem at the end of Shep not being bothered about where Rodney is.
I was interested to hear on Martin Wood's commentary that David Hewlett was confused about the "Why aren't you dead?" infirmary scene with Shep etc. at the end, and in the end he told him to play it as confused!

Another thing that confused me was that Rodney had been left on the planet as a hostage to make sure that Shep went on the mission. Did Ford not leave any instructions with the guards about how long they should expect the mission to take? It seemed to me that they should have been getting more antsy about it than Rodney was.

As for Ford's miraculous escape, it reminded me of the beginning of the second radio series of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" when Ford asks Zaphod a whole series of questions along the lines of, "How did you escape?" "How did you get the Starship Heart of Gold back?" "How did you get Marvin back?" and the only answer is, "I got lucky!" But seriously, should Shep not have been the tiniest bit worried that the Wraith might have "let" Ford escape for some reason?
Gotta go.

[OutThere]

Like many others on this thread, I found this episode a bit of a letdown. There didn't seem to be too much danger to our heroes from the Wraith. I think it would have been a good idea to show a Wraith feeding on somebody, obviously not one of our heroes, but surely they could have used one of Ford's redshirts for the purpose? And the episode didn't really hang together and work as a classic end of a two-parter because instead of everybody doing their bit to defeat the enemy, the Daedalus might just as well not have been there, and Rodney only really managed to save himself. And Teyla and Ronon were really only along for the ride (but I suppose that's true in most episodes...) It would have been more satisfying if the Daedalus had connected with Shep somehow. And that would have avoided the problem at the end of Shep not being bothered about where Rodney is.
I was interested to hear on Martin Wood's commentary that David Hewlett was confused about the "Why aren't you dead?" infirmary scene with Shep etc. at the end, and in the end he told him to play it as confused!

Another thing that confused me was that Rodney had been left on the planet as a hostage to make sure that Shep went on the mission. Did Ford not leave any instructions with the guards about how long they should expect the mission to take? It seemed to me that they should have been getting more antsy about it than Rodney was.

As for Ford's miraculous escape, it reminded me of the beginning of the second radio series of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" when Ford asks Zaphod a whole series of questions along the lines of, "How did you escape?" "How did you get the Starship Heart of Gold back?" "How did you get Marvin back?" and the only answer is, "I got lucky!" But seriously, should Shep not have been the tiniest bit worried that the Wraith might have "let" Ford escape for some reason?
Gotta go.

Ford escaping didn't bother me so much, but the "Why aren't you dead" end sure did, because I was thinking the same thing: "Yeah, why aren't you dead?" Good thing I taped this episode because I had to rewind to listen to Sheppard's explanation again. Were they near that planet's stargate during the space battle? If so, how come no one noticed the gate opening? And what the heck took Sheppard so long getting back? Sure, he had to let Ronon and Teyla recover from the dart, but couldn't he have dialed Atlantis and chucked a note through the wormhole to let everyone know they were okay? It was too overdone in my opinion.

As for whether or not the Daedalus being there made a difference, after monentary confusion on my part I think it did, because if it hadn't been, instead of a big confusing battle it would have been one tiny dart firing all on it's lonesome. I think the Hive Ship would have made short work of it then, and the Queen wouldn't have been tricked into thinking the other hive was turning on her hive.

[Catsitter]

As for whether or not the Daedalus being there made a difference, after monentary confusion on my part I think it did, because if it hadn't been, instead of a big confusing battle it would have been one tiny dart firing all on it's lonesome. I think the Hive Ship would have made short work of it then, and the Queen wouldn't have been tricked into thinking the other hive was turning on her hive.

Yes, but wouldn't the episode have worked better if there was a really important reason why the Hive ships needed to be destroyed, and quick, like if Atlantis's cover had really been blown? (As far as I could make out, Caldwell just assumed it must have been but it hadn't.) I don't count the reason that it would stop them from destroying the Daedalus because, well, it just brings me round again to why did the Daedalus need to be there? Well, all right, the culling was prevented, but most likely another Hive ship would show up sooner or later and do the culling instead anyway. And there would be cullings taking place all the time, and as far as I know there was no particular reason to stop this one, it was just in Ford's plan.

[OutThere]

Yes, but wouldn't the episode have worked better if there was a really important reason why the Hive ships needed to be destroyed, and quick, like if Atlantis's cover had really been blown? (As far as I could make out, Caldwell just assumed it must have been but it hadn't.) I don't count the reason that it would stop them from destroying the Daedalus because, well, it just brings me round again to why did the Daedalus need to be there? Well, all right, the culling was prevented, but most likely another Hive ship would show up sooner or later and do the culling instead anyway. And there would be cullings taking place all the time, and as far as I know there was no particular reason to stop this one, it was just in Ford's plan.

Yes, I agree with you there. The Atlantis and Daedalus crews just wanted to retrieve their people; blowing up two wraith ships wasn't essential to the plot, it was just gravy. McKay gets himself back to Atlantis, and the survivors on the wraith ship rescue themselves. The wraith ships blowing each other up was just something extra that happened because all the right elements fell into place at the end. I think all the divergent plot thread could have been tied up neater to make a stronger ending. The end seemed a little messy to me.

There didn't seem to be too much danger to our heroes from the Wraith. I think it would have been a good idea to show a Wraith feeding on somebody, obviously not one of our heroes, but surely they could have used one of Ford's redshirts for the purpose?

This is a major weakness in using the Wraith as villains. Other stargate villains could capture the heroes, pose a danger to them, torture them. But the Wraith seem to suck away their victims life, and physically and permanently age them. So the Wraith can't actually do anything when they catch the heroes, because I don't think anybody wants the main actors to have to totter around looking and acting aged forevermore. I've no idea how this problem can be fixed. It does make it seem a lot less dangerous though, because it has to be all or nothing, and of course we know the heroes are safe.

And Teyla and Ronon were really only along for the ride (but I suppose that's true in most episodes...) It would have been more satisfying if the Daedalus had connected with Shep somehow. And that would have avoided the problem at the end of Shep not being bothered about where Rodney is.

Ronon didn't do much, true. That knife scene was hilarious, though! But Teyla was key, because it was her intell that allowed Sheppard to lie so plausibly to the Queen (as far as the Queen knew, there was no way Sheppard could have known about the other hive ship unless he was working for them). And I don't think Sheppard showed concern about McKay in the end because he knew McKay must be okay; the only way the Daedalus could have shown up when and where it did is if McKay had sent it.

And yes, I agree, it would have been more satisfying if the Daedalus and Sheppard had connected there at the end. Having Sheppard appear to be dead for the final few minutes of the program then gate back to Atlantis did seem an unnecessary complication to me.

[angelfire east]

The episode was great but it felt a little rushed, it felt like it needed to be another 20 mintues longer.

I think Rodney detox was a little fast, it felt like it should have took a lot longer. David was brilliant in this episode; from yelling at the guards, to taking the enzyme, freaking out at Elizabeth, his detox and everything in between. David was hilarious when he was trying to decide whether he could beat up the enzyme then afterwards when he was actully beating them up. [Quotes in spoiler tag to save room]

Spoiler:

McKAY (to himself): OK, you can take them out, easy. Just a few well-placed karate chops and, and, and, and down they go. Piece of cake. Let’s, uh ... (He reaches for the door of the cabinet, then withdraws his hand and turns away.) Are you an idiot?! (He walks away from the cabinet, then turns and walks back to it, staring inside again for a long moment.) Desperate times, desperate measures. (He opens the door of the cabinet and reaches for a small vial of the Wraith enzyme, then pauses and instead picks up a large bottle of the enzyme. He lifts it out of the cabinet and stares at it.) That’s one hell of a karate chop!

later...

McKAY: And that’s what happens when you back a brilliant scientist into a corner!

quotes from http://www.moon-catchin.net/gatenoise/index.htm

I really wish we had a scene with the others reactions to finding out what Rodney did for them, that was pretty powerful what he did and I feel it desreves to be mentioned onscreen.

Both problem I had could have been fixed if the episode was a little longer

LOl about John and the Clowns

I really thought Neera was going to be either a Wraith, the Queen was making look human (in John's & co minds). The way she put her hand on his crest (like the Wraith do when their feeding was creepy). And Wraith-worshippers I like that John got them to fight each other Thata ineterestign stroyline to come up soon hoprfully

Beckett's comment about having "an inkling" of the agony McKay was going through was interesting - I wonder if that was a generic doctor-y statement, or something more specific that may be expanded upon later?

I thought that excat same thing. I too hope we find out more later

I had a huge laugh when Ronan was pulling knives from everywhere, including his hair!!!

I forgot about that LOL that was the funniest thign ever. I knew there was a reason for htat horrible miss he calls hair

[borgprincess]

This is a major weakness in using the Wraith as villains. Other stargate villains could capture the heroes, pose a danger to them, torture them. But the Wraith seem to suck away their victims life, and physically and permanently age them. So the Wraith can't actually do anything when they catch the heroes, because I don't think anybody wants the main actors to have to totter around looking and acting aged forevermore. I've no idea how this problem can be fixed. It does make it seem a lot less dangerous though, because it has to be all or nothing, and of course we know the heroes are safe.

That is a great point, I never really considered that aspect before. With the Genii, they have a whole repertoire- tying people up, exposing them to harsh weather conditions, shoving them around, etc. The Replicators do the 'hand sticking in forehead to show traumatic images' thing to their victims. Seemingly innocent and peaceful people who are willing to trade reveal themselves as sinister folk with a hidden agenda that does not have our beloved characters' best interests at heart. But the Wraith- what can they do? Their main creepy attack is the one they can't use on main characters because that would leave them rather dessicated-corpse looking and given that characters on sci-fi, and a lot of shows in general, tend to require physical attractiveness before any other qualities, this would be a major problem. In terms of plot, the Wraith are scary. In terms of what the writers can do with them- nyeh. Hardly anything.

Now this is why forums are cool- they make you think of new and different things. I actually quite liked this episode before I read some critiques and noticed all the plot holes. I guess I'm a shallow viewer, I'll just go along for the ride, immerse myself in the action to the extent I'm blind to the blatant inconsistencies and some of the negative points others have mentioned. But it's put me off the show if I over-analyzed it...

[Jill_Ion]

Or maybe you just liked the episode, borgprincess. No worries either way!

I thought it was a great episode. I only had to wait a week between watching The Lost Boys and The Hive, so maybe my expectations (which were high) weren't deep in space as some people who originally had to wait three months. Or else they just didn't like the ep. Whatever.

DH was friggin' brilliant as Rodney in a drugged-out state. I thought this ep really gave PMcG room to shine as a heart-of-gold person and doctor.

Shep's clown comments, especially about the Clown Armies, was classic!

OK, so a person who appeared at first to be good turned out to be bad. Huh. What's wrong with that? Been done in every show because it's a plot device that works. At least Sheppard didn't fall for it and then have to kill or seduce Neera so she wouldn't tell. That has been overdone. I like the concept of Wraith Worshippers because it means that not necessarily every human they encounter is going to be anti-Wraith. We have the Genii as a human enemy, but now we have the WWs to worry about too.

EDIT: I think TPTB did a nice "reveal" when Neera, while snuggling w/ Shep(!) put her hand on his chest in a Wraith-like fashion. It wasn't blatant "I'M BAD!" but gave the observant viewers (and Shep) something to think about. (END)

As was said above, I didn't need to see Ford escaping because we've seen him kick butt before. He did and therefore escaped. OK, moving along.

Ronon's Knives of Hiding were funny and helpful. Worked for me.

What the Wraith can do without affecting the hotness of our main characters is cocoon humans, force the humans to reveal information, and yes, they can do some torturing. Wraith Queens aren't truly mind-reading telepathics. They can get some info, but it's more about forcing spoken words out or tiny scraps of information into the forefront of our minds. Human minds, from what I've seen so far, are not an open book to them.

If there weren't already problems between the Hives, I'm sure Sheppard's assertion he was working for the other Queen wouldn't have worked. But if Queen A is already worried and suspicious of Queen B, then feeding her just a little more paranoia might put her over the edge. Doesn't matter as both Queens are presumed dead now.

I thought Sheppard would have to "waggle his wings" and land on the Daedalus at the end. Maybe they didn't have a budget for the VisFX, so TPTB had the team do a "ta da!" at the end. Not a dealbuster for me.

All in all, I really enjoyed The Hive and look forward to next week!! (Critical Mass as they already aired Epiphany out of sequence.)

[Randy_Watson]

Just watched this Ep for the first time and really enjoyed it, didn't expect to see the reaction in this thread, but most of Ouroboros' points are pretty valid. I guess I must have just been in the mood for a SFX orgy yesterday.

[MmmmMcKAy]

Pretty good episode but not my favorite of the season so far.
The Wraith just aren't scary anymore. I find myself laughing at them.
I just didn't feel a sense of panic re Sheppard, Teyla and Ronan.

I liked Ronan and all his knives. His deadpan delivery is growiwng on me.

Great points were Rodney making the decision to take a huge dose of the enzyme to try and save/find his team. Kudos to him. Hewlett(as usual) did an incredible job. Manic Rodney, super-Rodney, coming down off a high-Rodney etc. Loved Rodney's smile when he realized that Sheppard was flying the dart firing on the hive ships.

I really liked Beckett here too. He really is a sweetie, isn't he? A lot was going on behind his eyes during his "conversation" with Rodney.

[garhkal]

I agree on hewlett did great, acting llike he was coming down from a humongus high...

But i also loved the sword play with ronon on those wraith..

[Team SG-1*save the show*]

Did ford survive? Members of F.O.R.D are creating a campaign to remind the powers that be that we still want more storylines on Ford. They seem to have forgotten him in season 4 so a campaign has been created to see him recast in season 5.

Please sign this petition as this is the first step

http://www.petitiononline.com/FORD/petition.html

thanks everyone

[Silverwings]

I think I've worn out my indignation by ranting about Carson's shoddy treatment over in season 3. If this is indeed the last of Ford, though, they really dropped the ball. His is an interesting character, lost to laziness.

[Jeff O'Connor]

I'll never understand why Darren only gave this episode **. I think it was *** 1/2 worthy. The script was crisp, the interactions were fairly top-notch. The drama was there, the action was there. I thought it was great; even better than its predecessor.

[millertj27]

Anyone notice the cute darker-haired actor who was one of the guards that Rodney knocked out? He was also in an SG1 episode (10x07, "Counterstrike"), where he was a Jaffa who Adria strangled with her mind to make him reveal the planet Dakara had a weapon that could destroy her.