The Hive (211)

[Callie]

Transcript is up here:

http://www.brundle.free-online.co.uk/Transcript.html

It's still a work in progress, so suggestions of amendments are welcome to the email addy given on the page.

Apart from Rodney's DHD rant, another bit baffled me: when Rodney, Caldwell, Lorne and Radek are first on the Daedalus, it sounded to me as if Rodney said, "According to Ford’s intel, Edward has a space Gate." I listened over and over again and it really did sound like 'Edward' to me! Surely I'm mis-hearing?! I changed it to 'the planet' in the transcript for safety!

[Ouroboros]

We know your main point is that we shouldn't have to sit here filling in all the hole Carl Binder left, and I agree 100%. He could really use some experience and writing tips from some of the other guys. From the standpoint of what a "serious episode" should be, I'd say he's done the worst out of any of the staff writers. Anyway, even though I understand you don't think we should have to do this, we have fun doing it regardless.

I enjoy it to but to a point. Filling in blanks about things that have details that wouldn't interest most viewers like how the technology might work or Wraith culture or whatever is something I can get into. Filling in blanks about essential parts of a specific story that were left out do to half assed writing is something rather different entirely I think.

Actually, I watched SG-1's Torment of Tantalus recently and was amazed at how time-efficient it was. In 40 minutes it fit in backstory, new characters, emotional scenes and character development, cool ancient technology intrigue and overall story advancement, and an exciting escape scene. Not to mention the good reasons and explanations for everything that happened. If The Hive were written like that, it probably would have been in the SGA top 10.

I often here this episode talked about. I don't remember much about ToT but I also seem to recall it being one of the better episodes. There were a lot of episodes like that in the early years. The show was more serious back then but still had time for plenty of humour.

The difference was that while it included moments of sarcastic humor it at no point felt ridiculous the way Atlantis often does. I'd actually argue that the humour provided by Jack back in those days was more effective because of the otherwise more tense and serious atmosphere of the show. When he'd crack one of his remarks of it actualy made you laugh because it wasn't something that always happened all the time and when he did say something it was usually actually funny. When everybody's doing it the effect gets dilluted, the jokes get lamer and any semblance of serious tension or danger in the situation gets anihilated because well shucks, everyone's just having so much fun apparently.

[watcher652]

There are a few theories bouncing around about that:

- Beckett has had personal experience with some form of addiction
- Beckett has treated addicts in the past
- Beckett has seen a friend/family member go through withdrawal
- watcher652's theory that Beckett was drawing a parallel between Mckay's physical pain, and the emotional pain he was feeling because of what McKay was saying. (personally, I quite like this theory - it's cool)
- It was just a doctor-y thing to say to a patient. Empathy, and all that.

You think my theory is cool? Oh, wow, no one has ever thought anything I said was cool! You so made my day, my week even!

I can't buy that Carson himself was ever addicted to anything. That's just isn't what kind of man he is. As a doctor, I'm sure he's had to see some addiction cases, but his reaction was too personal for it to be just some patient he came into contact.

I really do feel that the pain Carson has is because of what Rodney was going thru. When Elizabeth came in to check up on Rodney, Carson says that Rodney is "Asleep. Finally. Mercifully." Rodney is asleep and not in pain but Carson is nursing his own personal heartache. Then Elizabeth asks if Rodney has said anything about his team mates. Carson replies, "No, not yet. Our conversation was of a different sort." Carson gets this far away look in his eyes and says, "I feel not unlike the priest in “The Exorcist." Carson is saying that he knows all the abusive language wasn't Rodney talking, that was some Wraith devil that had taken his soul.

Because Carson believes Rodney's suffering is all his fault. He gave the Wraith enzyme to Ford which allowed Ford to leave Atlantis. Ford wouldn't have even known there was such a thing as a Wratih enzyme without Carson. Now Ford is out there, killing Wraith, okay, but also kidnapping his former team and making them do things Ford never would have done in his right mind.

So I can see where Carson would think that his actions have corrupted Ford. Now Ford is corrupting others. For all Carson knows, Ford could have killed Sheppard, Teyla and Ronan. And Rodney is lying in the infirmary because he was so deperate to help his team that the only thing he could think of in his Wraith enzyme clouded mind was to take more enzyme so he could beat up his guards.

No wonder Carson is in pain.

If Rodney was in his right mind, he could have thought of some tech way to get rid of the guards. The guards certainly didn't seem to care that Rodney was in Jace's lab. There was plenty of stuff there Rodney could use. But the enzyme messed with his mind and with Rodney's tendency to panic and act without thinking, that was a recipe for disaster.

[Cynicat]

You think my theory is cool? Oh, wow, no one has ever thought anything I said was cool! You so made my day, my week even!

Aww Hell yeah it's a cool theory - it's all non-literal-interpretation and stuff (yay! eloquence!)

I can't buy that Carson himself was ever addicted to anything. That's just isn't what kind of man he is. As a doctor, I'm sure he's had to see some addiction cases, but his reaction was too personal for it to be just some patient he came into contact.

Amen to that - I really don't see him as having an addictive personality, but I got the feeling has has had close contact with addiction/withdrawal: friend or family type of close. He's seen someone close to him go through what McKay was going through. Thinking back on it, the actual wording and behavior could go either way, but it was the nuances of McGillion's performance that got me thinking along those lines.

I really do feel that the pain Carson has is because of what Rodney was going thru. When Elizabeth came in to check up on Rodney, Carson says that Rodney is "Asleep. Finally. Mercifully." Rodney is asleep and not in pain but Carson is nursing his own personal heartache. Then Elizabeth asks if Rodney has said anything about his team mates. Carson replies, "No, not yet. Our conversation was of a different sort." Carson gets this far away look in his eyes and says, "I feel not unlike the priest in “The Exorcist." Carson is saying that he knows all the abusive language wasn't Rodney talking, that was some Wraith devil that had taken his soul.

Wordy McWord of the highland clan McWordal. That was a very nice little exchange between those characters. This whole episode gave interesting little glimpses into Backett's character, it'll be facinating to see where they take him later in the season.

[AutumnDream]

Because Carson believes Rodney's suffering is all his fault. He gave the Wraith enzyme to Ford which allowed Ford to leave Atlantis. Ford wouldn't have even known there was such a thing as a Wratih enzyme without Carson. Now Ford is out there, killing Wraith, okay, but also kidnapping his former team and making them do things Ford never would have done in his right mind.

So I can see where Carson would think that his actions have corrupted Ford. Now Ford is corrupting others. For all Carson knows, Ford could have killed Sheppard, Teyla and Ronan. And Rodney is lying in the infirmary because he was so deperate to help his team that the only thing he could think of in his Wraith enzyme clouded mind was to take more enzyme so he could beat up his guards.

No wonder Carson is in pain.

That was great. I'd send some green your way if I could.

With this already weighing on him, combined with whatever disasterous effects come from his

Spoiler:

weird wraith drug thing, I can really see how he might have that personality shift everyone's been talking about.

[pooman]

my theory is
sheopard prviously flew the dart with the translator, after that he should have a rough idea on where the beam is (he beamed them up on 210 lost boys) and yeh he would what some of the things did because he previously done it and he is a smart chap .

for ford i think that he would have went back to were they originaly landed with the translator in it, that would have made it easyer for him to fly so he juslt flew of real quickly and as sneaky as possible.
well that is my theory

[rovex]

About the opening doors. I think its fair to say the wraith technology is partly organic based. Like much of our bodies the door bars might require energy to be active, like a muscle. Take away the power, by shooting out the controls, and the bars relax and open!

[AutumnDream]

Does anyone else get the feeling the inside of wraith ships look a little "set-ish"? It might just be because I've actually seen the sets outside of the actual episodes though.

[Beal]

Does anyone else get the feeling the inside of wraith ships look a little "set-ish"? It might just be because I've actually seen the sets outside of the actual episodes though.

Like the darts and stunners, they look very plasticy

[AutumnDream]

I wonder why all the wraith stuff isn't just 3D. Including the sets.

[Cynicat]

Does anyone else get the feeling the inside of wraith ships look a little "set-ish"? It might just be because I've actually seen the sets outside of the actual episodes though.

Kinda strips all the magic out of it when you see the foam and plywood backing the flats, doesn't it? LOL

Anyone who has absolutely no interest in nitpicky ramblings about production design, please skip the rest of this post

Gotta say, I agree. With a few very rare exceptions, sets of any kind look pretty pathetic in their natural state - it's only once the gaffers get in there and work their magic that you start seeing real results. Lighting can do so much for a set, but sometimes it can hurt it by highlighting features that would be much better helped by being in shadow. Personally, in this instance I think it was partially some rather unkind lighting, a lack of atmos (smoke - gives depth & hides budget cuts), and the confined nature of the actions - Dr Who-ing (running around similar-looking hallways) is a tried and true way to disguise the fact that the production hasn't spent a lot on sets. But mostly it was just the fact that it's not a great set - bunging cobwebs about the place does not an alien environment make...

I'm noticing the wraith ships seem to lack consistancy, especially with regards to the wall textures - there are a lot of different shapes, but they don't feel like a contiguous whole, if you know what I mean? They're going for an organic "alien" look, but it's just coming off as a bit disjointed. They can't seem to decide whether the wraith ships are grown, carved, or built. Designing for scifi is hard - it's fun, sure, and the possibilities are sometimes limited only by the confines of the script and your budget, but it's hard to pull off convincingly. You really need a clear set of guidelines to work with (ie: grown, carved, or built?), then you can start elaborating on those foundations and getting all fancy. On all the productions I've worked on, we've had a series of reference sheets detailing aspects of the design (colours, tonal range, tech, level & type of aging, etc etc) so everyone's on the same page - very important if you've got multiple buyer/dressers or finishing crews working on the same environments over time, as it helps ensure continuity in the evolution of the design. It kinda looks to me like everyone in the department was given a 10x12 flat and told to "have fun".

The best way to make something frightening is to familiarize it somehow - by anchoring it in reality - which is difficult when designing alien interiors, but nonetheless; the wall surfaces"pipe organ", "round knobbly bits", "tyre tracks", "leather patchwork", "corregated iron", and "vertical blue cladding" don't belong in the same space, ever. Familiar thought they may be in their own way, it just doesn't work. Then there's the "giant surfboard" themed rave that was the Queen's chamber (I mean, really - what's with the green lasers? Advanced wraith WinAmp visualisations?). Producers, please - give the art department a bigger budget, it'll do wonders.

I wonder why all the wraith stuff isn't just 3D. Including the sets.

A few reasons:

1. It's pricey - rigging bluescreens may be cheaper than building sets, but paying a VFX house to create the virtual set, rotoscope every frame, composite the action in, and do all their other nifty stuff to make it look groovy certainly isn't.

2. It's time-consuming. When creating a virtual set every single thing has to be designed - every wall, every bolt, every rock, every table, every chair, every kooky alien fork. This is especially true when creating alien environments - you can't just pull existing models of generic objects, you have to create everything. It has to be conceptualised, approved, and finished artwork presented to the digi crew so they can go about creating it, which can take weeks... even months, to complete.

3. Most actors hate working on bluescreens. They like stuff they can interact with (ie: break), and the right enviroment can pull a level of realism into it that wouldn't be there if they were standing in front of a big chromablue wall, staring in awe at a small peice of yellow gaffer tape...

4. It's very difficult to do well. If any of the three points above aren't up to scratch, the end product isn't going to work out very well. Not many people will really notice a dodgy-looking set, but pretty much everyone can spot crappy CGI. It has a wonderful way of looking unbelievably fake - most people will notice something doesn't look right, even if they can't place exactly why. The best CGI is the stuff you don't even notice - colour corrections, set extentions, removal of wires/rigging/environmental factors.

[happyclappy]

has anyone realised that at the end of the episode they recieve an IDC before the gate goes woosh, well they get it before the woosh soundeffect anyway, seems a bit iffy if you ask me.

[Bama]

I really enjoyed this episode... it's all the little character moments that make it happen for me. I found it strangely and unexpectedly moving... an area in which Carl Binder excels. I don't know what I expected... perhaps The Eye... but I got Before I Sleep and Letters to Pegasus instead. There's a lovely human quality to this episode and for me that covers a multitude of sins. I enjoy action very much... and it's always terrific when we can get both action and solid characterization. With The Hive, there was a sense of quiet... a sense of people battling their own weaknesses. The Wraith is not that important in the scheme of things in so far as they are a trigger. The heart of the story are the characters... how they cope... how they deal with extraordinary situations while battling their inner demons.

Just wanted to say that was a fantastic post EL. That's exactly what I enjoy about SGA. It's more than just the enemies or the fight. The character interaction and growth is consistent on levels many sci-fi shows are not. The little things do it for me.

[NakedJehutyV2]

lol @ ronon

that first wraith worshipper was hot.

the music was cool

the last 15 minutes was great. it's good seeing that the wraith will fight each other.


rainbow said ford's alive he'll prolly appear in season 3


definately great ep.

[Dutch_Razor]

As to the specific's - we get to see super Mckay - hes faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive.... its SUPER MCKAY. Only available for a limited time.

You forgot: Excluding batteries, not for children under 3 years.