Conversion (208)

[ShadowMaat]

Just thought of a mistake in "Conversion". This episode takes place immediately after "Instinct" (like, minutes later). When they get back to base, though, only McKay and Sheppard are brought to the hospital, with Rodney only in there for a splinter. Teyla was thrown unconscious by Elia, probably with a concussion and a nasty gash on the head to boot...so where was she?

She's a Big Tough Alien Warrior Princess, she don't need no stinkin' band-aid.

As for the kiss... I am unwilling to accept the possibility of it being anything less than a violation and a very unwelcome one at that.

Do I think it shouldn't have been done? No. It added lots of great drama. I just wish that it would actually be USED again, rather than be tossed aside as a cheap, stupid excuse for Shep to shove his tongue down Teyla's throat.

I want to see Teyla doubt Sheppard. I want to see her have a lingering uncomfortableness around him. I want her to avoid being alone with him.

Yeah, yeah, they've "put it all behind" them and consider it "forgotten", but I want it to linger, I don't think it SHOULD be forgotten. And I definitely don't think it should EVER be interpreted as a good thing. Except by the fans.

[FoolishPleasure]

Zero. Point. Snark. is the best Atlantis review site on the net imo. I burst a gut just laughing my ass off and spew everytime I read stuff there. Those reviews are the best regardless of any ship wishes.

Slightly OT, but since it was mentioned. Site is:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/zeropointsnark/

They do Atlantis episode reviews every week. Definitely NOT for the kiddies, but hysterically funny. I have nothing to do with the site, but it has become one of my favs as well.

Back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

[Lorr]

Okay, it is a very rare thing for me to post in a forum, but I feel the urge. I thoroughly enjoyed Conversion. As a matter of fact, I feel that SGA has really found its rythm this season, in the writing, acting, directing, everything. I really like the fact that there are two very smart, strong women, and men that are not threatened by them. Thank you!!!

Conversion was good in many ways, at least to my mind. It allowed all of the main characters a good amount of screen time and dialogue. There was no scenery chewing, a thing which is unnecessary to get the point/emotion/whatever across. The performances by the actors were very good. They imparted a genuine fear and concern for their friend without the gnashing of teeth and wailing that is seen so often. And the special effects were very tasty. (For brevity, I'm going to use first names here.)

Caldwell is ia career military man and has been a commander for some time. He wants Sheppard's job. I think Mitch is playing a complex, amibitious character quite well.

I love Torri as Weir. She is playing exactly as she should be. In this episode, she is very worried about losing a good friend, but, at the same time, she needs to stay in charge as leader of Atlantis. And, she is very suspicious of Caldwell, who doesn't help his own case. I am glad she let him know that. I think her entering Sheppard's quarter's alone was not too far wrong. She did not know he had not taken the inhibitor, and all was quiet in the room when she entered.

David as McKay is just delightful to watch. I have a good friend who is very much like McKay, brilliant, but a bit on the cowardly side. McKay does show a brave side often enough. I wouldn't change him. It is good to show the balance of the person of average courage alongside those who rush in without thought for their own safety.

Jason is doing very well as someone who was out in the cold for so long and is settling into a new and incredibly different environment. I like what he is doing, and the fact that he is so easy on the eyes does not hurt at all. He is fitting into the team

Paul is great as Beckett. What more can I say? He always does a wonderful job and makes Beckett believable and sympathetic.

I cannot imagine anyone else as Teyla. Rachel is too delicious as this dynamic, intelligent woman who is fighting for her people with unwavering courage. I think in Conversion, Teyla was taken surprise by Sheppard's kiss. She already knew something was amiss, but this was unexpected and a little scary. Her reaction in that scene and at the end was beautifully played. Also, in between, she is concerned for and loyal to Sheppard.

Joe has grown to own this role. He is very believable as Sheppard. I like the fact that Sheppard does not need to be dominant. He knows and accepts that other people are smarter (McKay, Zelenka) or stronger, better fighters (Teyla, Ronin) and seems to be quite happy about it. That imparts someone who is comfortable with who he is, and that is so cool. Joe played this perfectly. He played Sheppard's own shock at kissing Teyla well. (I love the comment that is was "interesting".) As soon as Sheppard sees his arm, he calls Beckett (how often do the characters try to hide their problems?). Then, he is aware of the changesand how dangerous he is becoming. One could see John Sheppard trying to remain in control as the change overtakes him. And, then at the end, he is barely in control as he goes to the cave with the others. His whole being is concentrating on getting the eggs. Joe played it beautifully.

Lastly, the writing and direction were just wonderful. I was glued to the couch and found myself holding my breath more than once. That is hard to do (see the drivel that mostly passes for TV these days. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[SnoggingPicard]

She's a Big Tough Alien Warrior Princess, she don't need no stinkin' band-aid.

That's quite true!

I want to see Teyla doubt Sheppard. I want to see her have a lingering uncomfortableness around him. I want her to avoid being alone with him.

Yeah, yeah, they've "put it all behind" them and consider it "forgotten", but I want it to linger, I don't think it SHOULD be forgotten.

Stargate loves to wrap up stuff within the nice, neat 44 minute package of time that they're allotted. But I agree -- I'd love for this emotional stuff to stick around for a week or two, but of course, that'd risk overthrowing the applecart of the Atlantis universe or something. Again, there's always fanfiction!

[Traveler Enroute1]

Lorr - Okay, it is a very rare thing for me to post in a forum, but I feel the urge. I thoroughly enjoyed Conversion. As a matter of fact, I feel that SGA has really found its rythm this season, in the writing, acting, directing, everything. I really like the fact that there are two very smart, strong women, and men that are not threatened by them. Thank you!!!

<<my snips>>

Welcome, lorr. Nice points, well said. Sorry I can't rep you yet, but here's a green for your thoughts - .

Just sayin'.

[ShadowMaat]

Stargate loves to wrap up stuff within the nice, neat 44 minute package of time that they're allotted. But I agree -- I'd love for this emotional stuff to stick around for a week or two, but of course, that'd risk overthrowing the applecart of the Atlantis universe or something. Again, there's always fanfiction!

Pffft! I may be going out on a limb, here, but I'm guessing any fics based off That Scene are going to be decidedly shippy in nature and are more likely to deal with Teyla angsting over her "feelings" for Sheppard than angsting over her concern for her safety.

[Dorka]

So, my thoughts to this episode!: Absolutely AMAZING *g*

This is my new favourite episode! very Sheppard and Weir centric, so what can I want more?
Loved their interactions. Torri played her role amazing... she was my favourite character before, but now she proved again that she's a great actress.
O.K I was a Liz/John shipper since the first half of the 1st season, so I sooooooooooooooooo liked how these two care for each other in this eps (even if it isn't the love-of-my-life-type yet, but I'm positiv about that one in the future )

Somehow I liked Caldwell in this episode... she's jelous at the friendship Liz and John have... one more reason to dislike Sheppard

As for the kiss: It was O.K, not very romantic... I liked the apology at the end. Teyla was relived that they can turn back to normal with the friendship... I wonder, if she'll call him John in the future.

[SaharaGate]

I think I can look past all the bad (and there was lots) in this episode to appeciate the Shep characterisation...we didn't find out concrete information about him but we did get an insight into his character, a glimpse of him losing control.

And it wasn't pretty.

That kiss was just...shocking. I really wasn't expecting that, but at least it confirmed that the chemistry between these two characters isn't sexual in any way.

I don't think Teyla enjoyed that kiss and I'm not even sure Shep did. It was violent and unexpected and unpleasant to watch, just as it must have been unpleasant for them.

But then, I see Teyla as far more attracted to Ronan anyway (and vice versa). She kinda always seems to be internally laughing at Shep.

As a whole, I found the episode highly predictable, card-board cut-out TV Sci-Fi writing. This one followed the typical SG-ep structure so closely you could mentally mark off Act 1, 2, 3 etc by the dialogue.

Despite that though, I thought Joe did a fantastic job, the prosthetics and SFX looked fantastic and we got to see his team worry about him (though I was wondering where Rodney was for much of it...seemed he was only around Shep at the beginnning a bit and then the very grim end).

So yeah, not very impressed with the structure (Carson's sudden 'idea' couldn't have come at a more predictable moment and the idea itself was an obvious one from Act 1). Very impressed with the acting (Rachel and Joe and Torri and Mitch specifically).

Oh, and I am totally enamoured of the Caldwell-Weir dynamic. Love the layers there!

[SnoggingPicard]

I agree with you that the story has been done lots of times before in the sci-fi universe (just look at Sg-1's "Broca Divide"!), but I know that I wasn't watching this episode for the storyline, since we all knew that Sheppard would be alive and well at 10:00 Friday night. I got a lot more out of this character-wise, and the acting was simply phenomenal all around. We learned a lot about all of the characters, but there was still a great deal of vaguery about how they all feel about each other -- ships in other words. The way that the actors and writers gave us such a good insight but still managed to not make anything in their futures too obvious was simply brilliant.

[entil2001]

This was one of those episodes were I’m strongly tempted to throw something hard at the TV, in the irrational hope that it will somehow smack the writers upside the head in the process. They had us (meaning, my wife and I) grumbling for half the episode, waiting for them to just get to the incredibly predictable final act already.

I’m going to qualify my comments. I don’t expect that everyone figured out where the story was going, and those who didn’t were probably very pleased with the episode. It provided a good look at characters not-McKay, specifically Sheppard and Beckett, and there was a lot of well-written tension between Weir and Caldwell. Having Caldwell there, stepping in under the assumption that Sheppard may not recover, was a great way to draw out Weir’s devotion to Sheppard.

OK, so first things first…the predictability. By the time Sheppard was begging to go on a mission, and the team was trying to raid the Roach Motel, it was rather clear what the solution was going to be. After all, Sheppard had been healing at an incredible rate, and really, what would the bug(s) be able to do to him that isn’t already happening? So we saw that solution coming a mile away, and it was damned frustrating to wait for the characters to catch up.

For all that, I thought Joe did a great job with his portrayal of Sheppard. Shep’s been one of my favorite characters on the series since the pilot, mainly because of his dry sarcasm and Joe’s line delivery. Plus, both Weir and Teyla seem to have this potential interest in him, and even McKay seems to need him as a foil. He’s also the one with the strongest relationship to Ford, which is key to that character development. All in all, he’s vital to the mission.

Which is why, of course, Caldwell comes across as such a jerk for trying to change things before Sheppard’s even lukewarm. Taken objectively, Caldwell is just doing what he thinks is best for the mission, even if it means butting heads with the civilian leader. I mentioned earlier in the season that this dynamic of civilian vs. military would be damned interesting to watch, and this episode proves that out.

Beckett also gets a lot of screen time this episode, and I liked that. But with all that screen time, I was expecting the writers to use him a bit better. One thing that I was expecting was some kind of discussion on how Sheppard’s condition would relate, in some way, to what Ford has been experiencing. After all, the retrovirus was designed to eliminate the Wraith DNA in Ford, so shouldn’t Sheppard’s experience be vital in terms of understanding the treatment and figuring out how to modify it? Not mentioning that was a sore spot for me.

The writers seem to be setting up a slow but developing love triangle between Sheppard, Ronon, and Teyla. Add Weir into the mix and it’s a Rhombus of Complication. It’s somewhat cliché for Teyla to be given character development through a romantic subplot, so hopefully there will be more to it than that. But this is the kind of dynamic that a larger cast allows (SG-1 never really had that), and it adds another layer to a series that is struggling to regain its strong identity.

[mgbland]

I agree with you that the story has been done lots of times before in the sci-fi universe (just look at Sg-1's "Broca Divide"!), The way that the actors and writers gave us such a good insight but still managed to not make anything in their futures too obvious was simply brilliant.

It's a lot like the "Broca Divide" but of course they switched gender roles, making it the man that makes the move. I can't help wondering if part of Tayla's fear was the realization that he could have done anything, and she wouldn't have been able to stop him. We're also dealing with a multi-galactic reaction. I think she realized that Sheppard was a lot stronger than her, and any attempt to push him away wouldn't have worked. She may have gone for a pressure point, but I suspect he wouldn't have felt it. Still, Sheppard can be a really scary man at times.

One question, I saw him throw down his fighting stick before the kiss, what happened to Tayla's?

Edited to Add:

A lot of these plots have been done over and over again. The metamorphesis was done on Startrek Voyager with Paris, Star Trek Enterprise with Archer. I loved the Voyager episode. Paris kidnapped Janeway and by the time the ship caught up with them, they had alien babies! One big difference with this one, was that Sheppard never escaped. Of course this was more a character driven story, Sheppard's relationship with Elizabeth and to a lesser extent Tayla.

[mgbland]

Funny how when Sheppard was barely infected, couldn't help himself from sticking his tongue in Teyla's mouth immediatley, but a couple of days later, Weir can chat with him in a darkened room and he's not in the slightest bit attracted to her. Her self esteem probably took a huge hit there.

At that point, Sheppard was still reacting like a human. I think he's always been attracted to her, but with his inhibitions gone, he reacted. Days later, he was thinking more like a bug than a human. His lines became shorter, as if he struggled to remember how to talk. He started repeating the last word uttered by Weir.

As far as the kiss, I got the impression Sheppard didn't kiss and tell. Also, learning he was deevolving, he had other things on him mind, like his worst nightmare coming true (the second worst was sharing a body with McKay) He hated those bugs, and now he was becoming one. During his recovery, he remembered the kiss, and had to make it right with Tayla. They key now is that Tayla knows he remembers it. It's not like when Zander got possessed by a hyena and tried to rape Buffy, then claimed he didn't remember.

I think this kiss is going to haunt them for a long time. Sheppard knows what was going through his mind during that kiss.

[Lida]

Why is everyone so fixated on the "kiss"? Shep was clearly under the influence of the genetic mutation that was occuring........ perhaps it relaxed some of his inhibitions, but I tend to think, it just released the "animal" or in this case, "insect" side of him. It was not a kiss of passion, nor do I recall his tongue being shoved down her throat. I guess I lack the x-ray vision of others.

As for Teyla, in every other situation, she was more than capable of taking care of herself, as she will be in the future. I seriously doubt she has anything to fear from Shep, esp. unwanted advances.

Why are people taking a SciFi show, and trying to turn it into soap opera? Who the heck cares who "wants" who...I care about the story, the characters and their professional and FRIENDLY ( and sometimes not so friendly) interactions. Period. If a ship should develop, so be it, but to date, the writers haven't shown ships as a forte of theirs.

As for a Ronon-Teyla-Shep triangle, complicated by a Weir-Shep-Caldwell triangle (gee, does that make it a Star of David?).......come on. Just watch the show, if you like it. If you don't and find it either too "predictable" or too "shippy", turn it off. You do remember how to turn off a TV right?

[TheGreatCatOfRe]

Why is everyone so fixated on the "kiss"? Shep was clearly under the influence of the genetic mutation that was occuring........ perhaps it relaxed some of his inhibitions, but I tend to think, it just released the "animal" or in this case, "insect" side of him. It was not a kiss of passion, nor do I recall his tongue being shoved down her throat. I guess I lack the x-ray vision of others.

As for Teyla, in every other situation, she was more than capable of taking care of herself, as she will be in the future. I seriously doubt she has anything to fear from Shep, esp. unwanted advances.

Why are people taking a SciFi show, and trying to turn it into soap opera? Who the heck cares who "wants" who...I care about the story, the characters and their professional and FRIENDLY ( and sometimes not so friendly) interactions. Period. If a ship should develop, so be it, but to date, the writers haven't shown ships as a forte of theirs.

As for a Ronon-Teyla-Shep triangle, complicated by a Weir-Shep-Caldwell triangle (gee, does that make it a Star of David?).......come on. Just watch the show, if you like it. If you don't and find it either too "predictable" or too "shippy", turn it off. You do remember how to turn off a TV right?

Thank you Lida. Words of wisdom!

[Lida]

Thank you Lida. Words of wisdom!

Thanks, TheGreatCatOfRe, but I don't think they are words of wisdom, more exasperation.