Trinity (206)

[watcher652]

Not to go sounding like MacKay and all, but...

Yes, of course it's bigger! MacKay wasn't making excuses, he was pointing out that he had done much better than merely blowing up 3/4 of the gal... er... solar system

<nods> It's possible. We don't get to see their faces/body language, unfortunately, but Rodney just doesn't sound very contrite to me when he says that. And isn't it right after he says it that Weir says her "Can you give your ego a rest" line? Makes it sound like he's bragging, to me.

I think the 5/6 answer was just McKay automatic response to be accurate. He wasn't trying to be a wise guy. He just made himself look worse.

I think Rodney was contrite. We do get to see their body language. If you look at their body language in the scene, you can see Elizabeth is very angry at Rodney. She's yelling and looking right at him. But Rodney isn't looking at Elizabeth, he's looking at the floor. If he was being a smart ass, he would be looking right back at her. But he was ashamed at how the whole situation became the disaster it did and he couldn't look at her.

Unlike John, Rodney has never disobeyed Elizabeth. He has always done what was asked of him. John and Rodney are peers, so Rodney can yell at John. Elizabeth is the boss, and he's always treated her as such.

[Droops]

No no, that argument is flawed. Boss-yelling does occur in real life, sure (though I've never seen it in my line of work). However, many people would argue that it's still inappropriate and those real world people are indeed bad managers. It all comes down to whether one thinks that yelling at an employee in a relatively public place is appropriate and useful or not.

Managing people takes a lot of tools, some of which are only appropriate in certain situations.

In the military, barking orders and chewing people out would not be out of the ordinary. And while they're both civilians there IS a military aspect to the job.

But even setting that aside, there are times when confrontation is needed. I've had my boss raise his voice, a bit, at me. It was enough to get me focused and get the job done (followed by good praise), so it does have it's place. You can't be screaming at someone ALL of the time, though, that just makes for bad management.

[SophieTucker]

Was there life on any of the planets Rodney blew up?

Other characters have acted recklessly because they believed they were right. In Underground, Teyla disobeyed Sheppard's order to be quiet and told the Genii about awakening the Wraith because she believed it was the right thing to do. She put everyone's lives at risk and Sheppard never said a word to her. In the Hot Zone, Sheppard was the one disobeying orders - his justification "he believed he was right"

So, Rodney believed he was right - but but somehow it is worse when he does it? I was disturbed that Rodney put Sheppard's life at risk - but I guess we're supposed to believe he really didn't believe he was doing that. Still, I just can't believe he would do that.

I found Ronon's behavior disturbing.

I also really had a hard time believing Rodney's behavior was consistent with his character - that of a scientist in his position; a scientist who had demonstrated such a careless disregard for safely probably wouldn't have made it that far.

[prion]

Was there life on any of the planets Rodney blew up?

Other characters have acted recklessly because they believed they were right. In Underground, Teyla disobeyed Sheppard's order to be quiet and told the Genii about awakening the Wraith because she believed it was the right thing to do. She put everyone's lives at risk and Sheppard never said a word to her. In the Hot Zone, Sheppard was the one disobeying orders - his justification "he believed he was right"

So, Rodney believed he was right - but but somehow it is worse when he does it? I was disturbed that Rodney put Sheppard's life at risk - but I guess we're supposed to believe he really didn't believe he was doing that. Still, I just can't believe he would do that.

I found Ronon's behavior disturbing.

I also really had a hard time believing Rodney's behavior was consistent with his character - that of a scientist in his position; a scientist who had demonstrated such a careless disregard for safely probably wouldn't have made it that far.

Well, I don't want the characters to be perfect, so if they screw up, even in monumental proportions, it's okay, as long as it's not too bad (mass murderer type, etc. - aiee, don't get me started on how they do that on soaps). Anyway, I could see how Rodney could blow it.. I saw it as sort of his 'breakdown' from everything he's been through (saving the base again and again and again).

[Shep_and_McKay_Fan]

As a fan of Rodney McKay, I'm not sure what to think of this epsiode. I still adore the man and I know that someday they will finally get to the bottom of why he is the way his is, but I'm not happy that their messing with the Sheppard and McKay friendship. To me, thier friendship is the best part of the show. They remind me so much of how Jack and Daniel were over on SG-1, that I couldn't help loving the way those two men interact with one another. I miss the friendship that Jack and Daniel had and now I may be losing what I love about Atlantis. Yeah, the stories are different and a bit intrieging, but I want Sheppard and McKay to be friends. Rodney needs John's friendship....

[ShadowMaat]

All friendships get strained. All loyalties are tested. If the friendship is just and true, then the trials experienced now will only strengthen the bond between them.

I thought Trinity was dead-on in its portrayal of McKay and I LIKE the fact that they're a bit "at odds" now. I think it adds spice and drama to the show, and in a GOOD way. It also makes it more real to me. If Shep just blithely accepted everything McKay did (and vice versa), I'd lose respect for them and for the writers. But maybe I'm strange that way.

[PG15]

I agree, Mckay was right on in this episode. He sees a way to get rid of the Wraith, and he thinks he can do it.

Which is pretty much him throughout the series so far. So it was great seeing him fail, as if it was a slap in the face telling him "Hey, you're NOT perfect."

Which is good for him as a character.

[SGLAB]

All friendships get strained. All loyalties are tested. If the friendship is just and true, then the trials experienced now will only strengthen the bond between them.

I thought Trinity was dead-on in its portrayal of McKay and I LIKE the fact that they're a bit "at odds" now. I think it adds spice and drama to the show, and in a GOOD way. It also makes it more real to me. If Shep just blithely accepted everything McKay did (and vice versa), I'd lose respect for them and for the writers. But maybe I'm strange that way.

I agree ShadowMaat. I was looking forward to this episode because I wanted to see this relationship tested. It was lacking some depth and growth imo and this was just the kind of thing I think will add to it.

[SnoggingPicard]

[QUOTE=Bobthespirit]I really liked this episode. It just goes to show the *right* way to introduce a character into a series.

This is the wrong way: Make your character of a race that has a reason to be smarter, stronger, and more immune-to-weird-things than all the other characters. Put said character in skimpy revealing outfits, and make that character the focus of 50% of all episods. This is what Voyager did with their new character, and it turned out really badly for them.

This is the right way: Make your character unique and engaging, different from the others in the cast, and funny. Give this character his own character development and plot, but not in a way that detracts from all the other characters. This is what Atlantis did.

I liked that whole Ronon sequence. [QUOTE]

As much as I enjoyed the whole bit with Rodney being knocked down a few pegs on the ego scale, the Ronon and Teyla half of the story had me really impressed. I think that we learned just as much about her character as we did his, which really says something for the writing. Ronon was acting on an impulse that was aggressive, revenge-hungry, and ruthless. It would be hard for the Earthlings on the base to understand...but Teyla did. And she let him get away with it. While Ronon never considered nor regretted his actions (partly because he is still getting used to the Atlantis infrastructure), Teyla made a conscious decision to keep it a secret. They now share a deep, binding secret that could get them (and Teyla especially) into a whole lot of trouble if it ever comes out in the open...and if the writers were smart, they'd definitely consider having the situation come up again to bite the characters in the butt. Though she didn't actually commit the murder, she protected Ronon from the inevitable repercussions that Weir and the others would have been sure to enact, and that would make her just as guilty in the eyes of many on the base. I'm really hoping that this doesn't just disappear. Seeing Bates' reaction to what happened, having Weir struggle with the idea of justice on the station, and witnessing the unconditional, trusting relationship between Sheppard and Teyla be put through the wringer would be great, character-driven television. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a sequel to this!

[mgbland]

As much as I enjoyed the whole bit with Rodney being knocked down a few pegs on the ego scale,

We all like people like that to take their licks!

the Ronon and Teyla half of the story had me really impressed. I think that we learned just as much about her character as we did his, which really says something for the writing. Ronon was acting on an impulse that was aggressive, revenge-hungry, and ruthless. It would be hard for the Earthlings on the base to understand...but Teyla did. And she let him get away with it. While Ronon never considered nor regretted his actions (partly because he is still getting used to the Atlantis infrastructure), Teyla made a conscious decision to keep it a secret. They now share a deep, binding secret that could get them (and Teyla especially) into a whole lot of trouble if it ever comes out in the open...I'm really hoping that this doesn't just disappear. Seeing Bates' reaction to what happened, having Weir struggle with the idea of justice on the station, and witnessing the unconditional, trusting relationship between Sheppard and Teyla be put through the wringer would be great, character-driven television. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a sequel to this!

They definitely have to bring this back up again. You have two completely different cultures that don't see eye to eye.

[ShadowMaat]

In regards to McKay... Super intelligent people have less reason to defend their ego, but only if they have the confidence to support it. McKay, I think, is very insecure and as smart as he is, he's always afraid there will be someone smarter who will make him obsolete and worthless.

[SnoggingPicard]

We all like people like that to take their licks!

They definitely have to bring this back up again. You have two completely different cultures that don't see eye to eye.

I posted on the "Ask Joe" thread here if he would consider doing a follow-up of this, but I don't know if he's responded. TPTB would be passing up a fantastic opportunity for some character growth and major emotional angst if they let this issue slip away!

[EnigmaNZ]

There was an ask joe thread, bugger. why couldn't someone mention the weapon inconsistencies. The show does make political correctness look an arse. You really can't can't take your preconcieved ideas of how people should act in a benign enviroment and expect people that have been descimated by the wraith over and over many times to act that way. But then I used to fume over Enterprise as well, I would like to see the accassionally PC character have to live in the other persons shoes for a time.

[Jeyla4ever]

Gotta admit, in all my years working in corporate america, I've only seen a boss yell maybe once or twice. Usually it's the employee yelling AT the boss that I've seen, and I've seen one or two doosies, which could be heard all the way from end of the floor to the other (followed by slamming doors).

However, I've never seen an employee blow up a planet either

Being in a "boss" position, I can say with experience that I have had my share of people yelling at me and in front of others....I think that there is a time and a place and it's done for a purpose...I've only "raised" my voice, once....and that was really painful and it was more to send a message to the person since I had just been recently appointed in that position....but, I have to say, my approach is to let the person yell, it demeans them and shows their true character...I lay low and respond in private and within reason...Effective leadership requires so much self-control and so much discipline since so many are relying and depending on you...It is a huge responsibility and one that not many can do effectively thus, the consequences that come with a big price.

In Weir's case, I really believe it was totally out of character...I think she could have done it more privately and I don't think that she was fair with Rodney considering that Sheppard has screwed up more than he has....I just didn't even understand the entire scene or its purpose...I think that scene would have been very effective if it was on its own. But, I don't doubt for a minute that there are people that rely to such actions in the real world. But, for me, it was an appropriate action on her part, but the way that the writers chosed to film it was kind of demeaning to Rodney's character....and even to Weir. JMO

[SnoggingPicard]

Well, Rodney didn't seem all that upset by it. His ego is so hugely inflated, that I think more public displays of humiliation could do him some good. Weir had good reason to be beyond pissed -- not only did he effectively destroy a solar system, but he had no apology for it. I kinda liked the scene, actually. It was a battle of stubborness between the two of them, and the dialogue gave me a little chuckle.