Trinity (206)

[ToasterOnFire]

I agree. Out of all the episodes so far I really want to see how the events of Trinity continue to affect Rodney, Weir, Shep, heck even Zelenka and Caldwell. If Condemned was truly filmed and meant to come after Trinity then I'm very disappointed that there was absolutely no fallout from anyone or even any noticeable change in Rodney.

I can only hope that we see something, anything, that gives some continuity in Instinct. Otherwise what's the point of shaking up all those relationships?

[Avatar28]

Well, I can see a little more poignancy (I think that's the word I'm looking for) in the bit about Rodney fixing the jumper to save his companions. It's like an atonement of sorts. But they may well have edited Condemned once they decided to switch the order as well.

[not so ancient]

As a woman who has never been battered in any way shape or form, yet who has dated so called "dangerous men," I must sincerely disagree with your, and Derrick's, belief that Teyla is an "abused woman." In fact, when I first read Derrick's post, I was quite flabbergasted and infuriated. Everything that Ronon has done, from "tying Teyla up" to "holding her hostage" to the "cheap shot" during training to his recent (and, IMO, unacceptable) behavior in this ep, is perfectly feasible, even expected, after sustaining the mental and physical trauma of the past seven years. In fact, he does not know how to behave as a normal man anymore. For seven years, he has been alone and hunted. He could not live in any society because of the threat he represented with the Wraith device implanted in his back. He has learned to think only for his own well-being. Someone mentioned "feral" and I think that is an apt term.



Teyla's consideration of his past and appreciation of his abilities has prompted her to accept his faults, with the knowledge that his behavior should improve with time. I do not see how Ronon, given his past, can be compared to any normal man living on Earth (unless you are talking about a POW who has been imprisoned for seven years with constant torture and threats to his life).

Is Ronan a woman-beater? No. Is he an alcoholic? No. Is he a man who has been traumatized to the point that he cannot appreciate acceptable behavior? Yes. Should his behavior be tolerated? Apparently Teyla thinks so. And she also realizes that the other (Earth) members of Atlantis would not think so. She is protecting him, because, at this point, he is unable to distinguish his violent and inappropriate behavior from acceptable behavior. I believe, considering his role on SGA, his behavior will improve. However, I think it would have been inconceivable that he would turn into a perfect gentleman after a month or so on Atlantis. Give him time.

I quite agree. Ronon's pretty rough around the edges but he doesn't appear to be quite the psychopath as alleged. Nor is he Teyla's boyfriend. Nor is she going to put up with any more of his crap.


I've sat through many a feminist jurisprudence lecture and seen many claims for what's abusive and what's enabling. The allegations don't add up to me.

Your comments about the horror that he's been through are insightful. Life around the Pegasus Galaxy is really painful, for a lot of people. Every planet's culture is shaped and poisoned by the perpetual presence of the Wraith. I don't expect them to play by our rules, because our world isn't theirs.

As for personal attacks on Derrick, I did not view any such attack (and I have read every post on this thread). Derrick suggested a scenario that was pretty far-fetched, and did not provide adequate explanations to support such a scenario. Derrick was called on that issue, and responded with only the same argument. Should Derrick provide further, plausible arguments, I am sure they would be considered. Your defense of Derrick is commendable, but I believe, unnecessary.

Of course, this is jmho and anyone who chooses to disagree with me is certainly entitled.

I reached the same conclusion.

And yet, one of the moderators slapped me with red jello accusing me of being nasty.

WTF? If I'd been nasty, why not moderate the post with the magical moderator powers?

Forget Stevie Wonder! Helen Keller could see and hear what's going on here now.

I guess I can be grateful that this isn't Condemned. If it were, I would have been sent to the island to be Wraith food.

Oh, and Viva La DISCLAIMER

[the dancer of spaz]

*peeks into thread*

*peeks out*

*peeks back in*

*marches in*

Um... K... Hmmm...

Well, I didn't realize this was an issue until today, but I didn't quite see the abusive relationship deal. I was incredibly irked when Dex fought dirty while fighting with Teyla. But that was basically it. Ronon seems like a wildcard, a bomb about to explode. That seems to be his angle. He's got a lot of anger, but I don't think it's directed at Teyla. He slammed his freakin' knife into the table when the guy was "taking advantage" of her - that was an angry action in general, out of his... desire to help her out.

To me, Ronon's a young guy. He's kinda immature, but so are Sheppard and McKay. The only difference is, Ronon's not from Earth, and he's had to defend himself ALONE for a long time. I don't think he turned out or behaves any differently than Sheppard would have, had he been in the same situation for so long.

Also, while I don't think that providing a reason or evidence behind your opinion should be required before posting here, I think it would (a) clear up a lot of potential misunderstandings and (b) thoroughly let others know where you're coming from in your beliefs. Plus, it makes you seem that much smarter.

[Schrodinger82]

Reading all the comments on here have left me with just two things to add...

1. Why did Weir trust McKay's judgement? Because he's not steered her wrong up until now. In fact he's saved their collective arses so many times with one incredible idea after another I think even she is guilty of thinking he can do anything.

Which might be true, except that this wasn't a life or death situation that required urgent planning. At the very least, Weir should have order Rodney to come back to further investigate Zelenka's claims.

2. Some people have said that Rodney's obsessiveness/actions were unrealistic. But I've got the feeling that the guy has never led an exactly realisitic life. This is the guy who built a working model of an atomic bomb when he was 11! I don't think he's had a normal life at all and I think that has screwed his thinking. He's too intelligent for his own good. He can't see the woods for the trees. He needs this knocking down to basically get him back to thinking like the rest of us mere mortals. I mean, he's likely been told all his life how amazingly clever he is. I'm surprised he's as normal as he appears to be!

Which is precisely why Weir should've brought him back the second she heard Zelenka's claims. It's not like the facility wouldn't be there when they came back, or like they wouldn't be able to restart the tests later on.

For instance, Rodney notices a sudden spike in temperature that he didn't account for, and Shepard orders him to abort. What does Rodney do? Well, the smart thing would've been to shut down immeadiately, try to re-assess his calculations, and start again. Of course, we all know what really happened, now don't we?

[Schrodinger82]

Sounds pretty boring, but wait! Let's look at what McKay accomplishes. He gets one member of the group killed, and destroys a planet and part of a solar system. The planet might have had other technology, or something else on it, that would have been of use. Maybe the destroyed wraith ships would have had something. Instead, he fails spectacularly.

Yeah, you'd think that they would have started searching the ships for parts they could salvage and reverse engineer. Weapons, engines, etc. At the very least, collect a few spare parts for the next time one of them gets trapped in a Wraith transport crystal.

Really, the entire situation was just far too big to tack on in a single episode.

[Droops]

And yet, one of the moderators slapped me with red jello accusing me of being nasty.

WTF? If I'd been nasty, why not moderate the post with the magical moderator powers?

Sounds to me like someone is trying to send a message. *shrug*

[Droops]

Yeah, you'd think that they would have started searching the ships for parts they could salvage and reverse engineer. Weapons, engines, etc. At the very least, collect a few spare parts for the next time one of them gets trapped in a Wraith transport crystal.

Right, a golden opportunity for all sorts of things. Wasted. All because of the inflated ego of one man.

No wonder Weir chewed him a new one.

[Lida]

Well in fact many people are realizing it now, especially since this episode, but part of the intention of the writers is to play with the untrustworthiness of the characters. I was just early in seeing that.

Really, so now you are clairvoyant or are you one of the writers? Care to expound further on what will happen next? Will Ronon turn on one of the SGA team? Oh wait, Ford already did that. My bad.

RD is a character, a complex one, who is neither an alcoholic, nor an "abuser". He is a man with a tortured past, and that is what is being explored by the writers. And I'm sorry to disagree with both you and Derrick, but no moderation was needed as no one personally attacked Derrick. I did, however, find his remarks offensive.

Yours? Well, you really haven't said much, have you? Ugly Pig at least posted something of meaning.

[Lida]

As a woman who has never been battered in any way shape or form, yet who has dated so called "dangerous men," I must sincerely disagree with your, and Derrick's, belief that Teyla is an "abused woman." In fact, when I first read Derrick's post, I was quite flabbergasted and infuriated. Everything that Ronon has done, from "tying Teyla up" to "holding her hostage" to the "cheap shot" during training to his recent (and, IMO, unacceptable) behavior in this ep, is perfectly feasible, even expected, after sustaining the mental and physical trauma of the past seven years. In fact, he does not know how to behave as a normal man anymore. For seven years, he has been alone and hunted. He could not live in any society because of the threat he represented with the Wraith device implanted in his back. He has learned to think only for his own well-being. Someone mentioned "feral" and I think that is an apt term.



Teyla's consideration of his past and appreciation of his abilities has prompted her to accept his faults, with the knowledge that his behavior should improve with time. I do not see how Ronon, given his past, can be compared to any normal man living on Earth (unless you are talking about a POW who has been imprisoned for seven years with constant torture and threats to his life).



Is Ronan a woman-beater? No. Is he an alcoholic? No. Is he a man who has been traumatized to the point that he cannot appreciate acceptable behavior? Yes. Should his behavior be tolerated? Apparently Teyla thinks so. And she also realizes that the other (Earth) members of Atlantis would not think so. She is protecting him, because, at this point, he is unable to distinguish his violent and inappropriate behavior from acceptable behavior. I believe, considering his role on SGA, his behavior will improve. However, I think it would have been inconceivable that he would turn into a perfect gentleman after a month or so on Atlantis. Give him time.



As for personal attacks on Derrick, I did not view any such attack (and I have read every post on this thread). Derrick suggested a scenario that was pretty far-fetched, and did not provide adequate explanations to support such a scenario. Derrick was called on that issue, and responded with only the same argument. Should Derrick provide further, plausible arguments, I am sure they would be considered. Your defense of Derrick is commendable, but I believe, unnecessary.

Of course, this is jmho and anyone who chooses to disagree with me is certainly entitled.

I agree with your analysis completely. Excellent post.

[Droops]

Yours? Well, you really haven't said much, have you? Ugly Pig at least posted something of meaning.

I can post a picture of a chicken. Or a yak. Or corn. Heck, I can even post a picture of the Swedish Chef from the old Muppets series. Or the Arby's Oven Mitt.

They all have meaning. Which would you like?

[Lida]

I can post a picture of a chicken. Or a yak. Or corn. Heck, I can even post a picture of the Swedish Chef from the old Muppets series. Or the Arby's Oven Mitt.

They all have meaning. Which would you like?

Well, to be completely honest, I think..........the chicken! It's your specialty!

[Droops]

Oh what the heck. For you Lida, and all others, I give you . . . . a Spongemonkey:



DEEEEEEP meaning, very complex. So complex and full of depth that I can't explain it here. Gaze deeply at it, though, and you might go on the path to ascension. No promises though.

[Droops]

Well, to be completely honest, I think..........the chicken! It's your specialty!

hehe, I have to mix and match! Can't be totally predictable after all.

[sgatelvr]

I agree with your analysis completely. Excellent post.

Your comments about the horror that he's been through are insightful.

Thank you both!

And Lida, thank you for the green!!