Trinity (206)

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Originally Posted by Excali5033
Well now Sam can't hold that whole supernova thing over Rodney's head anymore.

Hey, but she intented to do blow the star! That should give her some extra points.

Yeah, and Sam blew up the entire solar system, not just three fifths of one.

[Ugly Pig]

And now I shall tell you the truth.

PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'Trinity'

Interesting episode. It appears to have been written for the sole purpose of threatening the relationship between the characters. Teyla's newfound friendship with Ronon is challenged when he uses her to get to his old friend so he could kill him, as is Sheppard and McKay's when Rodney screws up and Sheppard plainly tells him that he has lost his trust. Add to that Weir literally yelling at McKay after his screw-up, McKay having insulted every person in the room (especially Zelenka), Ronon and Teyla deciding to keep secrets from the rest of their team... Also taken into consideration that trusted team member lt Ford recently went nuts, it seems like the writers are going out of their way to not have the characters becoming the close friends we perceive (the original) SG-1 to have become over the years.

Or maybe they just don't want to get there just yet. Whatever the intention, I'm not worried that the show will degenerate to the soap opera point where everyone hates each other and scheme behind each others backs... That I don't think TPTB would stoop to.

Another thing is that this whole deal felt a lot like McKay's appearances on SG-1, pre-Atlantis. Like back then, he was arrogant, as well as... well, wrong. While he has undergown some character growth since then, these aspects still remain. Oh well... maybe next week, he'll be right again, about everything.

[Lightsabre]

I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Weir has a lot of responsibility for what happened in 'Trinity'
Zelenka came to her and told her of grave concerns he had. She, in the end, authorised McKay to continue his test, then reamed him out for what happened.
I like Weir, but that action smacks of hypocrisy to me. McKay was arrogant, that whole 'none of you understand this like I do' thing was completely out of line. He bears the brunt of responsibility, but, for Weir to authorise the test and then ream him out, to me, is hypocritical and detracts from a great character.
Esp since she earlier claimed that she sometimes had to 'save him from himself'. In other words, she knew his arrogance could run away with him, but, despite having grave reservations about the test, let it go.

[tsaxlady]

The best thing about this episode was Zelenka. Rodney was back to his SG-1 arrogant self. I did like the interaction between Caldwell and Weir. The Dex/Teyla sub plot at least brought some depth to Teyla. Not my favorite SGA episode but not the worst episode either.

As for the end credits issue I was Tivoing the episode and it cut off and BSG started before SGA ended so I guess SGA was running long this week.

The one thing I missed this week was Beckett.

[MarshAngel]

To be fair though, she was delegating, which makes it John's fault too. She trusted his trust in Rodney as much as Rodney himself and it was his responsibility to keep him in check. There's really little gained in spreading out the blame however. Rodney is certainly old enough and in theory smart enough to have known better. Given their situation he really needs to check his arrogance more often.
People have been fired for less and imprisoned for far less. Blowing up a solar system is something he should have been punished for in some way. It certainly doesn't give credibility to Weir's command.

[Egeria]

I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Weir has a lot of responsibility for what happened in 'Trinity'
Zelenka came to her and told her of grave concerns he had. She, in the end, authorised McKay to continue his test, then reamed him out for what happened.
I like Weir, but that action smacks of hypocrisy to me. McKay was arrogant, that whole 'none of you understand this like I do' thing was completely out of line. He bears the brunt of responsibility, but, for Weir to authorise the test and then ream him out, to me, is hypocritical and detracts from a great character.
Esp since she earlier claimed that she sometimes had to 'save him from himself'. In other words, she knew his arrogance could run away with him, but, despite having grave reservations about the test, let it go.

I only got round to watching Trinity tonight, and I have to say that I completely agree with you about Weir taking alot of responsibility. To be aware of Rodney's failings and arrogance yet still allow him to continue is irresponsible. The fact that in discussion with Shep and Caldwell she was openly against going back. If she really was against the idea surely she would be looking for any opportunity to stop it, yet when Zelenka brought to her info that could do that she failed to act.

[addict27]

For me SG-1 was better than Atlantis this week which is a reversal from the past few weeks. Too many things just didn't make any sense in this episode. As far as the hive ship staying in orbit for 10,000 years, that's certainly possible if the ship was in a high and stable orbit. I'm an aerospace engineer fresh out of college, so i'm no expert but i know its certainly possible.
After finding out that there was no current threat on the planet, Atlantis should've at the very least boarded the hive ship in orbit. It's got a big chunk taken out, but there's still an enormous chunk left, definitely enough for a fighter bay of Wraith darts and such. Plenty for the scientist to study for the next several months, and may provide Atlantis with some critical discoveries to fight the W. If anything, it would be fun if we could learn more about the Wraith .

Also Rodney's comment that "we won't know for sure until we go back down there and try again" was silly and quite frankly stupid. Especially if there's still 1) data to be analyzed and 2) you have no clue why it happened. We all know McKay is a genius and a comment like that sticks out and seems so out of character. If he had found the "error" in the Ancients protocols before the meeting, I could see him insisting on trying again. When you're testing something new and something unexpected happens you don't try again until you have some idea of what went wrong, especially if what went wrong killed someone.

Weir also seemed too eager to simply shut down the whole operation and not try again. To me she always seemed like a reasonable and intelligent leader; if Mckay thinks he has a good solution, let him try it. Of course in life and especially groundbreaking science there are no guarantees. I also thought Rodney knew Zelenka well enough than to blame him of jealousy.

On the plus side I liked Weir/Caldwell interaction a lot. The B plot was also very interesting and helped us get to know more about both Teyla and Ronan. It seemed very unecessary for the Deadalus to come in and save the day, as someone mentioned earlier. If they were keeping an eye on them, a beam-out using the asgard's transporter probably would've been easier and less risky. Then again that means another lost puddle jumper for our atlantis crew.

[knowsfords]

After finding out that there was no current threat on the planet, Atlantis should've at the very least boarded the hive ship in orbit. It's got a big chunk taken out, but there's still an enormous chunk left, definitely enough for a fighter bay of Wraith darts and such. Plenty for the scientist to study for the next several months, and may provide Atlantis with some critical discoveries to fight the W. If anything, it would be fun if we could learn more about the Wraith .

Except Rodney sorta blew it all up.
Best bit of the episode for me was the end scene between Rodney and Sheppard, Sheppards words were deservingly cold and Rodney was obviously very cut about it. Very good work Joe and David

[Sabre]

Derrick wrote

Ronon has a lot of issues. Mostly violence and rage, but also an alchohol problem, too. These aren't the sort of problems that build character or something that a relationship can fix. They're the type of problems that end up with Ronon hurting someone. (Hurt as in 'kill', not hurt as in 'feelings').

I agree with the rage issue. If last week I didn't have many moral troubles for what Shep did, I do with Ronon's execution without trial of the man. I'm against executions as a penalty (1), even more with no trial. For that matter, that man could have changed in the last 7 years and saved a lot of lifes, Ronon just judged and condemned that man many years later without a single question.

I understood McKay's willingness to keep investigating, he was ready to even sacrifice his life in the attempt, so he was real sure about what he was doing. I think, though, that Weir / Caldwell / Sheppard hurried too much in allowing him to do so, specially when Zelenka warned about the perils. Were they at a hurry? were the wraith coming to Atlantis in a couple of days so we needed badly to have a permanent source of power? They could just have WAITED a couple of days more in order Zelenka and McKay discuss about science, with some calmness and discussions, Zelenka would have made understand McKay his points, or McKay could have convinced Zelenka about how he was wrong. So it's not all McKay's fault here, the ones who allowed or took decissions were definitely wrong. (always, IMHO)

Oh and I don't think Ronon has an alcohol problem, he just celebrated something, and paid it dearly with a hang over, being alcoholic is just a very different matter

Sabre



(1) BTW, I did love, in the other hand Landry's resolution against the Goauld traitor, descending into a dark hole, and make him feel hunger, that's a penalty!

[Droops]

Two me, this was an episode that made two characters look good.

The first, and the big winner of the night:

Teyla.

The second was Caldwell, more on that in a minute. But first my thoughts on the overall dynamic.

Our team gets split into two. Sheppard and McKay go to a planet with a really neat weapon and a potential power source that could revolutionize science. Exciting stuff!!

Teyla, with Dex in tow, went to negotiate about . . . food.

Sounds pretty boring, but wait! Let's look at what McKay accomplishes. He gets one member of the group killed, and destroys a planet and part of a solar system. The planet might have had other technology, or something else on it, that would have been of use. Maybe the destroyed wraith ships would have had something. Instead, he fails spectacularly.

Now let's look at Teyla. In spite of Dex causing all sorts of potential problems, she successfully carries out a diplomatic negotiation that results in a more useful food source for her people and for Atlantis. Now of course, Atlantis has the Daedalus. But what happens if it gets destroyed? You need food, pure and simple. The new energy source would be nice. Food is absolutely essential. While mundane, Teyla's efforts have a far more postive impact on the entire operation.

Many here, including me, have argued that Teyla needs to do more. She did it here. She showed leadership and diplomatic skills, just like Weir, but with a warrior ability in her as well. I still saw that stupid purple top that she wears, but going past that she showed to me a lot more leadership ability and was able to get the job done.

McKay was McKay, Sheppard was Sheppard, Weir was Weir. To me, none of these characters developed much beyond what we had before. Not that I wasn't entertained, but I didn't see much change.

I DID see change in Caldwell. Far from being just someone who is angry and in opposition to everyone, he seemed more reasonable and was extremely helpful there at the end. Of course he'd like to keep tabs on things, but he saved Shep and McKay. I saw good character development in him this show.

Dex, we got to know more about him. To me, it was fine, but not really critical. I would expect such behavior given that most of his people are dead and he was hunted for sport for some time. He's not going to conform anytime soon, and I don't expect him to do so. Thus, his behavior wasn't surprising. If anything, it was predictable.

Overall a good episode. Pretty good, maybe even very good. Not spectacular or over the top, but solid.

[watcher652]

I thought the episode, though not a bad episode kinda fell flat at the last hurdle, it was less a climax and more a fizzle out. The build up was good, but the ending...well Sheppard spoke and acted as if he really didn't give a damn. The whole 'McKay looses Shep's trust' issue seemed little more then a word or two with no real emotion or action behind it.

I found the scene at the end where Rodney asks for John's forgiveness very emotional. Rodney was so afraid that John had lost faith in him. He was practically begging John to forgive him. He knew it wasn't going to be easy, that he would have to earn John's trust again. But he wanted to know if he had a chance to make it right, if he had a chance to earn John's trust back. John could see how much Rodney was hurting. Rodney didn't do anything out of maliciousness. Rodney was wrong, and knowing that he could be wrong in the one thing he thought he knew, physics, must have shook Rodney to the core.

The dialog at the end of the episode doesn't tell the whole story. You had to see the looks on Rodney's and John's faces to fully appreciate the impact of the scene. You had to hear Rodney's voice break as he spoke to John.

Rodney: Because, honestly, I would, I would hate to think that recent events would have permanetly dimmed your faith in my abilities. Or your trust. At the very least I hope I can, I can earn that back.

John: That may take a while.

Rodney: I see.

John: But, I'm sure you can do it, if you really, really try.


And the emotions that played across Rodney's face as the transporter took John away were so, so...

How can you say there was no emotion there?

As a result what could have been a great episode was another 'good' ep, its turning into a medicore season so far, no real risks, no real emotional punch, no high drama, no real character devleopments, heck McKay really didn't seem like he gave a damn about Collins death, he didn't react even half as much as he did to any of the deaths in Hot Zone.

Did you hear what Rodney said in the conference room when they were reviewing the accident?

John: A member of your team is in the morgue.

Rodney: And I am responsible for his death. Yes, I'm painfully aware of that. I sent him in there and I'm going to have to live with that for the rest of my life.

Did you hear how Rodney's voice broke when he said that? Many scientists have died on Atlantis, but this is the first time someone died as a direct result of Rodney's action. I think Rodney did give a damn.

[not so ancient]

-Love how Caldwell tells it like it is. When Elizabeth accused him of wanting Rodney to continue because he wanted it as a weapon he didn't hesitate to agree, which threw her off nicely. No sugar coating from that guy. More, please.

Oh definitely. I am so majorly (or -colonel-ly? ) behind in thunking for Mitch, it's not even funny. I've got screencaps, LJ icons and all kinds of things to say about the guy but my time has gone poof! lately.

About this scene you mentioned? Weir struck me as being contrary for its own sake, and thinking through things extremely poorly.

HelLO, the Wraith are still out there. They menace many worlds even if Atlantis is safe for now. The weapon is incredibly valuable.

I suppose she was slapping Caldwell around with him thinking he was dreaming of ribbons on his (gorgeous) chest. That's short sighted in two respects. First, a superweapon like that one could sure could have been useful vs. the Goa'uld more than once. Second, what's to keep the Wraith from finding that planet and absconding with the technology? They had suicide ballistic-dart attacks on Atlantis. I don't really think they'd care if umpteen of their scientists died in perfecting the technology.

Mitch played that scene with confidence and style. His body language, and the little laugh he had in "Yes. I do." was just excellent stuff.

I wish Caldwell and Weir would work their little issues out and then rip their clothes off and. .... oh, I'm sorry, was I typing out loud?

[Daniel's_twin]

I wish Caldwell and Weir would work their little issues out and then rip their clothes off and. .... oh, I'm sorry, was I typing out loud?

The word in the next paragraph is in no way influenced by the fact that I am a Wier/Sheppard shipper, but is only MHO concerning that subject.

Ew.

[JanusAncient]

In "Beachhead" they use subspace to send a message back to Earth, they could have done the same from the Daedalus, if not they could have sent the message in the same manner as "Letters From Pegasus," there was no need to hook up the ZPM at all, with enough naquadah generators, which now they more than likely have more of, they will use them in order not to waste the ZPM.

Rodney, his arrogance, and zeal to succeed was bordering on insanity. It became more of him winning some prize, or a certain amount of acceptance in the scientific community, than actually figuring out what went wrong, because there was no reason for him not to listen to Zelenka, but there was also no reason for Weir to allow him to continue, after showing so much spine last week in "Condemned," I don't see why she just didn't order the two to return to Atlantis, but it made a good ending for the show.

I would like to add, eventhough this is sci-fi, some of these scenario's should be a little plausible. To say one minute that the physics is beyond anything you know, and then to say the laws of physics cease to be, seems a little contradictory, or am I mixing episodes.

[Callie]

Re: Doctor Vogel

While writing the transcript for this episode, I groaned at that reference because I figured it was something the Americans would understand while me, an innocent Brit, didn't have a clue. (It's like the "talk amongst yourselves" references in both Atlantis and SG-1 which went right over the top of my head.) In an attempt to get the spelling right, I googled +"Dr Vogel" +pastries and got a string of pages which I only had a very quick flick through, as it seemed that at least I'd got the spelling correct. I think he's a sort of nutritionist type of doctor, though whether he likes or disapproves of pastries isn't clear!

After I'd watched this episode for the first time, I grumbled that it was a very talky one, which meant typing myself to arthritis in the fingers again, but I did enjoy writing it up, though it's so hard to get the emotion across in the written word.

What I particularly loved about this episode was the amount of smiling there was in the early part, from Rodney, Radek and John in particular. Can't wait to see some good screen caps! I particularly adored the moment when, at the end of the montage of scenes, Rodney finally got the power up and Radek turned around and said, "That's it!" While transcribing, I happened to pause the tape just at the moment he smiled in delight - and that's definitely a screen cap worth having!