Condemned (205)

[SierraGulf1]

I'm going to go out on a limb, lecherous fangirl tendencies aside (I mean, what respecting whumper doesn't want to see Shep restrained???), and say that this episode is probably the worst ever episode of SGA. And in that I do include the delight that is 'Skanktuary', which at least had a plot, and a point.

Sure, it had plenty of humourous moments, but these were almost equalled by the plotholes. There seemed to be very little holding the story together, which was weak at best. I mean:

Why didn't Sheppard cloak the jumper?
Why is Ronon already seemingly fully integrated into AR-1?
How did the prisoners know McKay was the resident genius having never met him?
What was that alliance all about? Wraith decency??? WTF?!?!?!?!?!?
Weir threatening with a team of four soldiers against an entire city and getting away???
Sheppard allowing all those violent prisoners away through the gate? Surely that's gonna come back and bite him on the ass...
Firing a drone at the Wraith Cruiser? Didn't they spend last episode rectifying a problem they caused by shooting a dart down so they could hide from the Wraith? Surely now, the Wraith know they are still about, even if not on Atlantis, but won't they even suspect?

I agree with the person who mentioned the previous incarnation "No Escape"...might have to find that out and watch it...

Question #1: Why doesn't Sheppard cloak the Jumper? Well, he didn't expect a penal colony to have any sort of weapons at all whatsoever. This, of course, creates another plot hole in that the smaller weapons should not have been able to take down the Jumper.

Question #2: Why is Ronon already seemingly fully integrated into AR-1? Because he is. Shep asked for him to be added to the team and Weir okayed it. What would you have them do? I've found the lack of Ronon trust to get rather old and I was glad to see him actually get in the team.

Question #3: How did the prisoners know McKay was the resident genius having never met him? It seemed that the lead prisoner was good at psychology. Perhaps it was just a guess? He was right none the less. Also, try to recall that McKay was the only one not armed with a weapon in the beginning fight. While this doesn't make him the genious, it's a bit of a hint that if a man isn't there for his battle skills, he's there for his medical or scientific skills (In Rodney's case, scientific).

Question #4: What was that alliance all about? Wraith decency??? WTF?!?!?!?!?!? Wraith are characters, and thus can be developed. What's wrong with a more dimensional Wraith? I'd like to see more of him. ...Not that he actually seemed that decent.

Question #5: Weir threatening with a team of four soldiers against an entire city and getting away??? No, Weir threatening a few of them and the Magistrate not in any conditio or mindset to stop her or alert the sity to her presense. Who's to say everyone would have tried to stop her anyway, with the Magistrate arresting people left and right?

Question #6: Sheppard allowing all those violent prisoners away through the gate? Surely that's gonna come back and bite him on the ass... I hope so, for later episode plots. Perhaps it was just a moment of Shep decency. All of those prisoners may not have been guilty anyway.

Question #7: Firing a drone at the Wraith Cruiser? Didn't they spend last episode rectifying a problem they caused by shooting a dart down so they could hide from the Wraith? Surely now, the Wraith know they are still about, even if not on Atlantis, but won't they even suspect? I guess they will, but it was life or death at this point. There's a difference between beating a Wraith dart to the gate and being severely outnumbered. If they were culled, the Wraith would have suspected them, and the only difference would be that three of Atlantis's finest warriors and Atlantis's smartest man would be dead. They had no choice as I see it.

Regardless, there were a few plotholes, but I found it ovreall entertaining. I like Ronon, and Teyla even grew on me some here. And McKay and Shep were awesome.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Recipe for Condemned: Take Demons, blend in Beneath The Surface without the mind wipe or UST, add a Wraith with the eating habits of the Unas. Place in Atlantis series and bake for 45 minutes. Enjoy.

I enjoyed it. But then, I like eating variations on my favorite dishes, too.

I thought that Rodney's science stuff was weak this week. I didn't buy that there was not-a-chance one scene, then, maybe-a-chance the next and at the last scene it works. Usually we see how that process evolves. Not this ep.

I do hope the smart prisoner shows up in coming eps, but I fear he'll become as invisible as Nyan from New Ground.

I really liked the smidgen of character development they gave Ronan. He seemed truly grateful that Sheppard gave him an order. He must have missed that after 7 years of not being in that comfort zone associated with chain of command. I really got a good vibe, there. Subtle, but strong. I like Ronan.

It looks like there is ambition among the higher ranks of the Wraith. Interesting.

Weir was SO in command! I loved how assured she was, how confident in her men. When it comes to dealing with leaders she is unbeatable.

What a powerful ending! Did the Atlantis team do the right thing, here? I suppose the entire world was doomed at any rate, as it is obvious that the local Wraith boss could no longer sheild his personal feeding ground from the other Wraith, but for the Atlantis teams to be so closely linked to the immediate demise of a world composed mostly of innocent people... that's gotta be hard to take to bed with you at night....

Condemned may have been a rehashing of past SG-1 eps(and ST eps, and gawd knows how many other shows/books/movies/greek plays/ etc) but I don't mind that. I'll take second helpings, please.

[ShadowMaat]

I do have to say, I was waiting for that random panel the scientist guy pulled to be the one Rodney needed to fix the jumper. Would have been a nice bit of depth to the guy, show that he IS competent enough to do things, even if he isn't aware of it.

[Sela]

well it was a fine episode. I liked the ronon's matrix coat. Any idea why does ho not wear normal military unuiform like teyla?

They probably don't have one in his size. The guy's really big!

[derrickh]

Question #2: Why is Ronon already seemingly fully integrated into AR-1? Because he is. Shep asked for him to be added to the team and Weir okayed it. What would you have them do? I've found the lack of Ronon trust to get rather old and I was glad to see him actually get in the team.

'Because he is' is a cop out that SG usually doesn't fall into. I took Teal'c more than 2 eps to be a fully trusted member of SG-1. But Ronon is acting like he's been there from day 1. And the 2 people who should distrust him the most are all buddy-buddy with him. I can't get over that.

Question #4: What was that alliance all about? Wraith decency??? WTF?!?!?!?!?!? Wraith are characters, and thus can be developed. What's wrong with a more dimensional Wraith? I'd like to see more of him. ...Not that he actually seemed that decent.

Once again, it's a cop out. Changing the way a villian acts means they ran out of ways to make the Wraith interesting. And its only season 2. It's lazy writing when you have to make someone act in a completly unnatural way to make the plot work. Before long they'll start having, Wraiths with hearts of gold who want to help Atlantis. And a Wraith who is in love with Teyla. And a Wraith who spends his free time raising puppies. It's been said since episode 1 that the Wraiths see people as a food source. Cattle. A rancher doesn't ask his herd which cows want to be slaughtered. He just picks them. And thats what the Wraith have been doing. But now they make deals. I don't get it.

Question #6: Sheppard allowing all those violent prisoners away through the gate? Surely that's gonna come back and bite him on the ass... I hope so, for later episode plots. Perhaps it was just a moment of Shep decency. All of those prisoners may not have been guilty anyway.

It's wasn't decency. It was borderline stupidity. At least Sheppard has been acting consistently, he acts without thinking of the consequences 95% of the time. Just because all of the prisoners -may- not have been guilty, it was made clear that many were guilty. Sheppard was on the planet less than a day and decided to free the prisioners from a maximum security prison. How would you like it if some guy from Chile went to New York and let loose everyone on Rikers Island because some people may not be guilty? Also, they made a point of saying that only the latest series of roundups were without merit. All the once before were for legit crimes. So a high percentage of the people Sheppard let go were true convicted criminals. Oh yeah, and wiped out a complete civilization.

D

[rexpop]

It's been said since episode 1 that the Wraiths see people as a food source. Cattle. A rancher doesn't ask his herd which cows want to be slaughtered. He just picks them. And thats what the Wraith have been doing. But now they make deals. I don't get it.

The cultured Wraith explained his motivation and reasons during the episode. After the Wraith cull all the worlds in their domain, they have to hibernate for long periods as food is short supply until the populations replenish to a certain size.

By striking the deal with the Magistrate and his predecessors, the cultured Wraith had a stable food supply meaning that he did not have to hibernate. It was smart management of the food supply on his part, rather like a fisherman who sticks to a quota to ensure that the fish stocks lasts longer.

[SGalisa]

Steve's back... wraith make-up: well done, but ickky... liked the wig.

Originally posted by warmbeachbrat:
Was anyone else seriously distracted by that pink-haired wraith's beard clapping when he talked?

umm, no. I got more distracted from watching Teal'c and Mitchell playing some sort of card game in SG-1, while Daniel and Vala were talking about more important stuff...

Anyway, the sophisticated Wraith's wig looked beigy (beige) to me. More like sandy colored as in when someone is transistioning or aging from being a dirty blonde that is blending with new white, silvery strands...

Just wondering what causes the wraith to turn green and where those extra gill sensors come from in their evolutionary ancestry.

Poor guy, it's a wonder he (the actor portraying the wraith) didn't choke while snorteling down that chunk of cooked meat. The things actors are forced do to make something *seem* so alien, just to please some nit-picky viewers. ER STAT: Cut! Quick - need "Bear hug" on the set! Snorteling and swallowing should NOT be tried at home, folks! Those are trained professionals on the set.

And he's also a connoisseur of something Vintage? Wine tastes better than the food, but not better than (figuratively) tasting the defiance of a criminal mind. Maybe there's a similarity between the two, unless that was bottled blood in his cup. Weird.
========

...about the crashed PJ and Teyla... I was expecting McKay to say that the gate address buttons were broken because Teyla's head hit the console hard enough to knock something out of proper adjustment. Couldn't really tell where Sheppard got thrown... and Ronan was extremely calm considering...

McKay... wonders never cease to amaze.
When it was realized that the people stuck on the island were the equivalent to earth's Alcatraz, and death was by being Wraith food, McKay's comment about preferring to go instead by lethal injection or the electric chair...

I do think Gaul's death (from "the Defiant One"), and what's happened to Lt. Aiden Ford (Siege) impacted Rodney very deeply. It's going to seriously impact his every thought and connecting experiences to encountering the Wraith at every potential turn imagined or real. And typical Rodney he'll do whatever it (desperately) takes to scurry the "H" outta there, if/whenever possible. mmmm, Shep's feeding Rodney ideas (ie: Shep's MENSA minded)... is Sheppard thinking similar to McKay, but on a much calmer level?

{hey, I like that "H" representation -symbolically, it looks like a ladder!}

Ronan Dex freeing McKay: "Suck it up!"
(Sheppard and maybe Teyla, too, grinned at that interaction.)
========

Don't remember the leader of the gang's name, but he looked so familiar! I finally realized it was Mel Gibson he looked like, and then the Braveheart movie. And found it rather humorous that McKay snarked about them all being:

"Ironically captured by the cast of Braveheart"

...and was there a mysterious Sheppard moment in there - when the leader told McKay he knew what *their* kind was like ...telling everyone about the situation being impossible, but later ...having a "Gargantuan" moment just to be considered a hero...(?) Either Sheppard was annoyed at that remark for McKay's sake (meaning he values Rodney more than he reveals), or something from his own past seemed to be triggered from his own thoughts (thinking pre-Atlantis military rescue days).

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

'Because he is' is a cop out that SG usually doesn't fall into. I took Teal'c more than 2 eps to be a fully trusted member of SG-1. But Ronon is acting like he's been there from day 1. And the 2 people who should distrust him the most are all buddy-buddy with him. I can't get over that.

There is a difference between Teal'c and Ronan. Teal'c was a high ranking soldier in the enemy's army. Ronan was a victim and an enemy of the Wraith. Teal'c switched sides, yet in a mere two eps he was part of SG-1. Ronan didn't switch sides. Two things both Teal'c and Ronan have in common, however, are1) the fact that they helped save SG lives, and 2) the good instincts of the SG leaders.(Yeah, I happen to think Shep's instincts are as good as Jack's. )

It's been said since episode 1 that the Wraiths see people as a food source. Cattle. A rancher doesn't ask his herd which cows want to be slaughtered. He just picks them. And thats what the Wraith have been doing. But now they make deals. I don't get it.

I guess what you'd call a cop-out I'd call not restricting an entire species to one philosophy.

I'm estatic that the writers are making the higher ranked Wraith, at least, show some individuality. This one likes to play with his food. Hey, I was raised on a small livestock farm and considered all the animals as pets - right up to slaughtering season. The difference, of course, is that we never taunted or livestock or kept them in fear for their lives.

It's wasn't decency. It was borderline stupidity. At least Sheppard has been acting consistently, he acts without thinking of the consequences 95% of the time. Just because all of the prisoners -may- not have been guilty, it was made clear that many were guilty. Sheppard was on the planet less than a day and decided to free the prisioners from a maximum security prison. How would you like it if some guy from Chile went to New York and let loose everyone on Rikers Island because some people may not be guilty? Also, they made a point of saying that only the latest series of roundups were without merit. All the once before were for legit crimes. So a high percentage of the people Sheppard let go were true convicted criminals. Oh yeah, and wiped out a complete civilization.

D

I wouldn't say stupidity so much as the fact that he had run entirely out of two important things: time and options. Sheppard wanted his team to gate back to Atlantis. Now, please explain how he could have done that while leaving the prisoners on the island? His team was unarmed, whereas his antagonists were armed to the teeth. Shep's first loyalty was to Atlantis, so no way he was gonna send them there. Shep was put into a situation that I doubt most if any of us have and he chose the lesser of two evils, IMO.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

The cultured Wraith explained his motivation and reasons during the episode. After the Wraith cull all the worlds in their domain, they have to hibernate for long periods as food is short supply until the populations replenish to a certain size.

By striking the deal with the Magistrate and his predecessors, the cultured Wraith had a stable food supply meaning that he did not have to hibernate. It was smart management of the food supply on his part, rather like a fisherman who sticks to a quota to ensure that the fish stocks lasts longer.

Yup. I got the impression, from listening to him, that this Wraith thinks himself smarter than his fellow Wraith. He has a cruel edge to him that I haven't seen in the others. Makes me wonder what sorts of power struggles exist in the Wraith hierarchy. I love these different Wraith personalities.

[quarkscrews]

"Save those that you can." This was explored in another episode with Sheppard and Teyla. The team was in no position to save the whole planet. They did what they could do at the time. Save the prisoners by gating them to another world. And the fact that these people are 'criminals' doesn't mean they all deserve to be culled. So I don't see the moral problem with Sheppard's decision. And who knows where Sheppard gated them to. It could be another island with no natives to rob, just a habitable environment.

I forgot to mention this in my previous comment as others have already pointed out how the leader prisoner could have known 'out of the blue' that McKay was able to fix the ship. Someone said because McKay was not carrying a weapon ergo he must be the genius of the bunch. I thought that was a weak explanation and playing to stereotypes.

To sum up, this was a weak episode in terms of the writing how matters got explained away. A spaceship downed by homemade weapons with a single shot, tactical moves by people who should have known better, diplomacy that wasn't very diplomatic given what was known at the time. I hate to say it but it was almost Andromeda-esqued, LOL.

[FoolishPleasure]

well it was a fine episode. I liked the ronon's matrix coat. Any idea why does ho not wear normal military unuiform like teyla?

I have yet to see Teyla in full uniform. She may have the jacket, but that silly purple halter top is always on underneath. .and she usually finds a reason to take off the jacket so we can all see she has a belly button. She had the purple top displayed most of the time in this episode, and if you watch "Runner", you'll see it under her jacket. Guess they have jackets that fit her, but no proper shirts.

Personally, I like Ronon's long coat. At least no one can say it was designed to show-off his bod - though it does make him look very nice - which just proves one doesn't have to bare lots of skin to look sexy.

[LiLTiff17]

I missed the ending...

I taped the episode and it cut off towards the end right after the Atlantis team jumped into the stargate before getting zapped by the wraith beams, can anyone tell me everything that happened afterwards. Thanks in advance.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I missed the ending...

I taped the episode and it cut off towards the end right after the Atlantis team jumped into the stargate before getting zapped by the wraith beams, can anyone tell me everything that happened afterwards. Thanks in advance.

Argh! Poor you!

Okay; Shep's team flees through the Gate. Wraith cruiser hovers over gate. I swear the cruiser actually looks p*ssed. Cruiser takes off in that way that cruisers have of showing exactly where and who its going to. Yup, you guessed it: Cruiser shows up outside the window of the sleazy leader. Mr. Sleazebag puts hand to mouth and makes the classic silent scream of horror. The End.

[AGateFan]

Argh! Poor you!

Okay; Shep's team flees through the Gate. Wraith cruiser hovers over gate. I swear the cruiser actually looks p*ssed. Cruiser takes off in that way that cruisers have of showing exactly where and who its going to. Yup, you guessed it: Cruiser shows up outside the window of the sleazy leader. Mr. Sleazebag puts hand to mouth and makes the classic silent scream of horror. The End.

If you need to see the silent scream of horror just watch SG-1 ep Demons, its the same guy and he has an equally bad encounter with an Gou'lded Unas.

[Blend]

Best Atlantis episode yet.

My reasoning?
It was typical oldschool 'earlier' sg1 episode format.
Ive been missing it and now, here it is!

10/10