Condemned (205)

[Sabre]

which leads me to believe TPTB intend to go back to this world.

I think it's a must, the culling might kill all the people but they probably won't take that non radioactive fissionable material.

Also, I find the Wraith quite stupid in their tactics. Why are they culling til the last of the humans ? with no survivors left, it's a "Bread for today, hunger for tomorrow" tactic.

I wanted to make a comment also about the "cloaking" imprudence. I would have committed the same uncautiousness If I was sheppard, meaning, that for I had seen, the criminals had arrows, and explosive slings, not anti air flaks, which is another millitary step.

Plus, the recently found allies reported that "they caused little trouble" unless you plan to land there, no anti aircraft fire warning. I would be quite relaxed in that case.

Shotting down a PJ with primitive weapons? well, it's unlikely, but it's also unlikely to shot down a fast wraith dart with the fire of P90s, as it's unlikely to shot down an Apache helicopter with a well aimed stone throw (I do not know if this is a myth, or it really can happen).

Sabre

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

That means the magistrate is a hero,too.

Yup, I agree.

It's only natural that a whole different culture would exist based on a Wraith-as-top-of-the-food-chain galaxy. We can't really judge them.

I said the same thing, way back when the magistrate was a priest choosing hosts for Sokar in Demons. No doubt being saddled with such a burden does unspeakable things to one's psyche.

Still.

The magistrate may have been a relatively good guy when he first started out, but who's to say the murderer Torrell wasn't a really nice guy at one point, too? If Torell is considered a criminal for his actions that took place outside of what that society considered law-abiding, then so be it.

Up until the magistrate unilaterally lowered the bar on what his society considered worthy of the death penalty(ie: bad cooking? ) and corrupted the judicial system into looking the other way then, yes, he was only doing what his society - which no doubt was set up and working generations before he was even born - deemed appropriate.

But that changed and so, by this society's own standards, the magistrate betrayed his people and commited criminal acts at least on a par with the worst inmates of the island.

It's when you get Shep and Weir who hail from a different mindset; from a society where humans are the top of the food chain and have them make decisions in this context that things get interesting. Taken from his cultural perspective, Sheppard did all the right things, under the circumstances.

Although not cloaking the PJ is something I'd like to have officially explained - that is, on the show itself, because I admit, that is wierd.

[Sabre]

Although not cloaking the PJ is something I'd like to have officially explained - that is, on the show itself, because I admit, that is wierd.

This is not official, but the thoughts of a newbie but, what do you think of this reasoning:

Did the Olesians find the PJ design intriguing? Yes

Did Lt.Col Sheppard fully rely on them? No.

Can the Oesians track the PJ in their air space? yes

And if it was cloaked? No.


If you assume the above to be true, the Olesians would inmediatly ask for explanations about what happened (and with their paranoia they could talk about spys), and for what is worth, the cloaking technology would be in one of the first requirements for trade with Atlantis world. I wouldn't want to show that technology to them unless it's REALLY necessary. We already regreted to show the capabilities of the C4 to the Genii, showing the cloaking technology to the Olesians might be a bad idea too. What do you thinK?

Sabre

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I wouldn't want to show that technology to them unless it's REALLY necessary. We already regreted to show the capabilities of the C4 to the Genii, showing the cloaking technology to the Olesians might be a bad idea too. What do you thinK?

Sabre

Reasonable by all accounts. Pity there wasn't a nod given to that, though:

MacKay: We should cloak the ship.

Shep: Why?

MacKay: Bad guys. There's bad guys here.

Shep: <rolls eyes> Bad guys with arrows and slingshots.

MacKay: Aaaand who might like to escape through the Gate when you broadcast the fact that we're headed right for it!

Sheppard. Well we'll just have to fly faster than they can run, won't we. I don't want to tip off the Olessians that we have cloaking technology. Remember the Genii?

MacKay: Fair enough. <looks out cockpit window to forest below> So, could we go a little faster?

Only, you know, better written.

[Avatar28]

Actually I thought that was pretty well written, especially Shep's parts. I could really hear him saying it in my head. McKay wasn't too bad, but it didn't feel quite right. Still, I give it a 6.5 out of 10.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I give it a 6.5 out of 10.

LOL! Why thank you!

OK, I'll stick to reading rather than writing.

[Avatar28]

No, really. It was good. Like I said, I was really feeling Shep there. Rodney was just a bit, I dunno, quiet. Should have been more complaining and more melodramatic. And wordier and maybe some trying to find the right word or something. :-)

[sparklegem]

This is not official, but the thoughts of a newbie but, what do you think of this reasoning:

Did the Olesians find the PJ design intriguing? Yes

Did Lt.Col Sheppard fully rely on them? No.

Can the Oesians track the PJ in their air space? yes

And if it was cloaked? No.


If you assume the above to be true, the Olesians would inmediatly ask for explanations about what happened (and with their paranoia they could talk about spys), and for what is worth, the cloaking technology would be in one of the first requirements for trade with Atlantis world. I wouldn't want to show that technology to them unless it's REALLY necessary. We already regreted to show the capabilities of the C4 to the Genii, showing the cloaking technology to the Olesians might be a bad idea too. What do you thinK?

Sabre

Hey, that's a really good explanation. Good thinking, and thanks for sharing. And thanks for your insight into Sheppard's reaction.

[mmu_man]

Also, I find the Wraith quite stupid in their tactics. Why are they culling til the last of the humans ? with no survivors left, it's a "Bread for today, hunger for tomorrow" tactic.

Seems the "cultured" Wraiths don't form the majority. If they ever vote anything anyway.

Plus, the recently found allies reported that "they caused little trouble" unless you plan to land there, no anti aircraft fire warning. I would be quite relaxed in that case.

Except they tell the opposite thing to Weir later to have her not participate the search ("we have heavily armed crafts, ...").
Was either telling intentional ?

[Sabre]

Except they tell the opposite thing to Weir later to have her not participate the search ("we have heavily armed crafts, ...").
Was either telling intentional ?

Disclaimer: the following post is full of speculation and is written after a night with beers (it's the annual fiesta week of my city)


The "caused little trouble" one came form the girl, and I do not think she had bad intentions, just used to the routine of putting prisoners in the island with heavily armored ships, and by the happiness of the bravehart cast when the PJ was shot down we can deduce that they don't manage to shot down aircrafts every week.

The statement of the magistrate is fully intentional IMHO. And I back this sentence with the following facts. At the beginning there was the order to search for the dissapeared team, because the order was later rescinded, and to be rescinded the order had to exist. When was it rescinded? AFTER the conversation between the Magistrate and "Shawn" the wraith. We do know that the magistrate told Shawn about a matter that would be of interest for both, and by that time, he knew the names of the dissapeared, included Sheppard.

Now we can build up two hypothesis:

a) The menace of the wraith killed by Shep in S1, that is, "Others will know what you have done to me" becomes true, the wraith telepathy network is a fully connected graph, and thus Shawn knows the much hated Sheppard is on the island. To back this speculation, we have the fact that Torrell had NEVER seen a wraith cruiser before, that is to say, there wasn't going on a "standard" culling, but WAR SHIPS were sent. In the past, it seems like the wraith used more darts for culling rather than cruisers, which seems to be battleships (and very bad aiming ships BTW ). In this scenario, it makes sense that the magistrate tells their ships to back off.

b) The presence of the wraith cruisers is due to the promise of the magistrate
to provide more prisoners, but then again, the wraith were using also darts for culling when attacking other planets such as Ronon's.

Now pick your favourite, or even better for my pleasure of reading, make your own hypothesis

Sabre

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

a) The menace of the wraith killed by Shep in S1, that is, "Others will know what you have done to me" becomes true, the wraith telepathy network is a fully connected graph, and thus Shawn knows the much hated Sheppard is on the island.

This Shawn is an interesting fellow, isn't he? He, and the scientist Wraith that tinkered with human/Wraith telepathy were obviously able to keep certain truths from their fellow Wraith, and, in Shawn's case, for several generations(judging from the size and tech level of the Olessian city).

It makes me wonder if Shawn will one day try to make some kind of deal with the Atlantis gang; he's probably in deep doo-doo with the other Wraith for holding out on them.

[Avatar28]

Tok'ra Hostess. Thought about it a little. I really liked your little scene you wrote. I bump my evaluation up to a 7.5. Have some green. :-)

[Major_Griff]

In regards to Shawn, What happens if he recurrs and meets Sheppard who gives him a different name? Will we accept this as the true name, or will we riot and stick to our guns in calling him Shawn? Forum wars could start over this. I think it was a mistake to name a wraith that could return. ITs not the first time someone on the forum had named a wraith, it happened before with Greg AKA The Defiant One, but he is dead so no war could start... Dark times are ahead. Just begun this name war has.

[Sabre]

Forum wars? the only serious wars I have seen in a forum were between Commodore 64 and ZX Spectrum users

I won't be in any war of that kind. I just used Shawn, because I saw it repeteadly and it's much shorter than "The last cultured wraith with appreciation for finer things". When Shep renames him, I'll just use that name, he hasn't been ascended to Lt Col. only to be ignored

Even McKay who discuss for everything, didn't discuss too hard on names, when his name of "gateship" was canceled to PJ to be used we shouldn't discuss on that, should we?

Sabre

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Will we accept this as the true name, or will we riot and stick to our guns in calling him Shawn? Forum wars could start over this.

Nah. The more hard-headed among us will simply call him the Wraith formerly known as Shawn.