Condemned (205)

[White Knight]

Oh yeah, definatly up there with the 'old-school' SG-1 episodes - not to mention that its the first Atlantis team-ep we've had since the start of Season 2, which makes it a pretty special ep. Love the McShepnon (McKay, Sheppard, Ronon), like how Ronon follows Sheppard's orders like he's still military, loved the fight at the end with Sheppard, Ronon and Teyla (Sheppard trying to break the stick), loved Weir coming to thier aid, and I like the shades-of-grey enemies this week (except Shawn; he's straight evil and we love him for it); the prisoners, not all of whom are as guilty as advertised, and the Magistrate, who's unscrupulous methods are, in the end, for the benefit of the people (though maybe they're benefit isn't the highest priority to him).

I got the impression, from listening to him, that this Wraith thinks himself smarter than his fellow Wraith. He has a cruel edge to him that I haven't seen in the others. Makes me wonder what sorts of power struggles exist in the Wraith hierarchy. I love these different Wraith personalities.

I agree with you 100%. The Wraith remind me a lot of the Replicators (pre-Season 6), where they were just a massive entity who were out for total domination. While the Replicators did kick ass, they were lacking the individuals and leaders that made the Goa'uld so cool, and the Wraith are suffering from the exact same problem. Hopefully, the inclusion of individuals and leader Wraiths (especially ones that remind you of Dracula) will step up the Wraith on the enemy scale (from mean to scary).

[Quinn Mallory]

This was a nice old SG-1-like episode but with the Atlantis team. I did feel that McKay was a bit off this week for some reason. I agree with a previous poster that I hope the new guy don't just disappear like Nylan from SG-1.

[Mayhemm]

GOOD:

- Shawn the Wraith and his implying that they may have, at one point, ate food like we do. "Our lineage may have diverged, but there are those of us who still retain an......appreciation for finer things"
- Torrell's insight into McKay that reveals Rodney may not perform as many miracles as he'd like us to believe...and Sheppard's reaction to this possibility.
- A generally entertaining episode

BAD:

- Retreading on old episodes: Seemingly enlightened people have a horrible secret ("The Cure")? Check. Said people are making a deal with the team's sworn enemy to ensure their own survival ("Between Two Fires")? Check. Lies told to population to hide evil secret ("Beneath the Surface")? Check. Lone whistleblower has been waiting for total strangers to blab to about evil secret (Numerous SG-1 eps)? Check. I'm sure there are more.
- Sheppard's blatant dismissal of the prisoner threat: After being attacked once before and after learning these are violent prisoners, Sheppard proceeds to fly the jumper right over the island at low altitude and uncloaked! Gee, why did we get shot down again?
- The continuation of disregard for innocent life on Stargate without any remorse (See the end of "Origin"): So, because the magistrate was corrupt in his efforts to save his people from the Wraith, let's free all the prisoners (re: most were actually prisoners and it's just recently that innocent people were put there) and leave the Wraith to feed on a mostly innocent civilization. Bravo guys! I wouldn't mind if the aftermath of this genocidal decision is touched upon again, but it likely won't be.
- Wraith Cruisers: They look cool, but BY GOD are they slow and their gunners must need glasses! The whole escape screams convenience.

SUMMARY:

- This episode has a few developments and revelations, but overall it just reeks of "been there, done that".

If it seems like I was hard on this ep.....it's because I was. The SG creative teams have done much better.

3/10

PS: I apologize to other posters if any of my comments were plagiarized.

[Crichton]

I like the addition of more hand to hand scenes in Atlantis. I think they could still improve on the choreography but I've seen way worse, they don't go as far as reminding me of Xena fights atleast. I think they could make them even more realistic, less flipping by people who get hit by Teyla's sticks...instead have them grab their broken nose and scream as they run away-maybe even the addition of slow motion in the future would be awesome...especially in a super-ford hand to hand scene!!

[Sabre]

Hi greetings from San Sebastian, Spain. I'm still learning english so excuse me if you find mistakes / weird expressions

I have a question, I don't think it has been raised along the thread. What was the magistrate talking about when he told Shawn that he was late because he had a matter it would benefit them both? Trying to make treason with their new allies?

About the ep, I liked it quite a lot, not only with Chewbacca and McGyver lines you already have mentioned but also with some other lines, such as the irony of McKay about death penalty on earth "Yes, certain countries, yes" . I quite like the bantering Canada-USA that have popped up from time to time (in season one I recall Shep making a comment about ice hockey or something). I like the show remaining international, and I don't even care the guy that appears in first ep of S1 with Spanish flag, has Mexican accent

I don't agree the moral troubles some of you have with letting the allosians to the mercy of the Wraith, after all, they're just sharing the fate of all the bloody galaxy. Plus, I think it's a matter of time, the requirements of the Wraith were more and more demanding, and they were lowering the bar to send people to the island to insultant levels, quite like the nazis or our former (f****ng) dictator did on earth.

Some of you have pointed out that a farmer doesn't talk with chickens. I think they'd love to! I think Shawn explains that with this agreement he do not have to sleep between cullings, so it's not decency, but greed. I read somewhere that Wraith are territorial race, this would explain the political balances Shawn has to make with other wraith to provide them food.


Thank you for all your posts, I have a good time reading them!

Sabre

[derrickh]

GOOD:

- The continuation of disregard for innocent life on Stargate without any remorse (See the end of "Origin"): So, because the magistrate was corrupt in his efforts to save his people from the Wraith, let's free all the prisoners (re: most were actually prisoners and it's just recently that innocent people were put there) and leave the Wraith to feed on a mostly innocent civilization. Bravo guys! I wouldn't mind if the aftermath of this genocidal decision is touched upon again, but it likely won't be.

The disregard for life seems to be getting worse and worse. When lyou ook a little deeper, this ep was about the genocide of an important civilization. It was said that crime was almost non-existant. And their tech had made huge leaps and strides over everyone else the teams have encountered. They looked a couple hundred years ahead of pre-Asgard-alliance Earth. And now that Sheppard freed all the murders, that planet is gone.

The Wraith Cruisers were over the island, which made it look like the 'deal' was still valid. But with no prisoners, they'll go to the mainland. And thousands of law abiding, civilized people will die. All because Sheppard screwed up and lost his guns and made a quick, thoughtless decision.

Like a previous poster said, this ep had a lot of traits of the last couple of seasons of Andromeda, and thats not a good thing.

D

[Sabre]

They had huge technology, yes, but I preffer the way the Genii got their modest technology, the Genii might be harsh to us, but they do not sell their OWN people to the wraith and forget about the rest of the humans of the galaxy to be in that pleasant situation (although they volunteer to sacrifice some of their lives to cover up their tech). It's the contrary of what SG1 does, Carter and this guys do care about the fate of other human beings regardless they're from earth or not. We do not know neither, if part of that technology are "little favours" of the wraith. The monstruous agreement they have, might have worked for normal wraith times, not times when all wraith are awaken.

With a far more advanced tech, the ancients could have made a better agreement with the wraith, specially if we bear in mind that they could win most of the battles. But they didn't, did they? I think Allosians are not that innocent.

The Genocide IMHo is what the magistrate agreed to perform with the wraith and already started (making arbitrary arrests and sending to the island) I found that scaring.

RM

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I have a question, I don't think it has been raised along the thread. What was the magistrate talking about when he told Shawn that he was late because he had a matter it would benefit them both? Trying to make treason with their new allies?

I have no doubts that the magistrate's intent was to learn where the "refugees from Atlantis" were presently based and trade that info to his Wraith master.

I wonder if the subject of Atlantis and the humans from another galaxy ever came up in conversation between the magistrate and "Shawn." If so, the magistrate would know that there was a whole new feeding ground, "out there" and he'd have been keen to betray that galaxy if it meant getting the Wraith out of his backyard.

[snaillady]

Did anyone else think that the "fissionable, non-radioactive material" the Olesia's (that's how they spelled the land in the closed captioning) were studying could be naquada? That was the first thing that came to my mind. Too bad Rodney wasn't able to check for it. Would also explain how such simple explosive devices were able to seriously damage a puddle jumper.

Back to lurker mode now.

[impulsivelad]

Man, I really liked this episode (it’s funny that week after week I find I enjoy Atlantis more than SG1). I loved the humor and writing in general of this episode. I loved that they showed a different kind of Wraith. I love badass Weir. The fight choreography was the best it’s ever been. Teyla was actually impressive with those twigs! Also the "moral dilemma" was very cool, much better than in Poison the Well. I think Atlantis is quickly turning in my favorite TV show not named Firefly.

The only thing I hated was Dex’s trench coat, someone give that guy a uniform.

[Platschu]

This episode was a mix of "Between the two fires", "Revisions", "Undergorund", "The Defiant One", but I liked it!

I won't see more CGI Atlantis Stargate! Why can't they build a blue one for off-world adventures?

[SierraGulf1]

Once again, it's a cop out. Changing the way a villian acts means they ran out of ways to make the Wraith interesting. And its only season 2. It's lazy writing when you have to make someone act in a completly unnatural way to make the plot work. Before long they'll start having, Wraiths with hearts of gold who want to help Atlantis. And a Wraith who is in love with Teyla. And a Wraith who spends his free time raising puppies. It's been said since episode 1 that the Wraiths see people as a food source. Cattle. A rancher doesn't ask his herd which cows want to be slaughtered. He just picks them. And thats what the Wraith have been doing. But now they make deals. I don't get it.

Since Tok'Ra Hostess made excellent points about the first and third statements, I'll simply state the reasoning for the third.

A being, if it possesses a mind, is capable of being different from the rest of its kind. Humans, as a whole, are decent people, but there are many out there such as terrorists and murderers that are quite different. Basically, you can't judge a race by its majority. And I realize that the Wraith's instinct is to feed on humans, and keep in mind that this one we saw here is no goody tooshoes himself. He threatened the man and demanded more food. Just because he did it in a different manner does not mean he will ever raise puppies and run off naked into the night with Teyla.

Keep in mind also that eventually he didn't keep his part of the deal. Seems pretty Wraithlike to me. Perhaps this is a bad example, but lets look at it from a human perspective:

If I can only be satisfied by chicken nuggets, and my chicken nuggets keep attacking and hiding from me making it difficult to get them, and I find one nugget willing to sell out his friends so I can eat them with little trouble, perhaps I would spare that nugget for free easy-to-get nuggets.

Stupid as it sounds, it's the situation here, and I believe it makes perfect sense.

[joescookiem]

I loved this episode! I loved the stick fighting. It cracked me up when Shep tries to break the stick over his knee like Teyla did and it was too thick - the expression on his face! And I liked how Shep is getting a little bit tired of Ronan's flying off the handle at a moments noice - when they're tied up and Shep yells at Ronan. The special effects were cool. I loved the Wraith ships moving in. Speaking of that -- the look on that guy's face [I forget his name] at the end when he notices the ship - the horror. He finally realizes the consequences of what he agreed to.

[LiLTiff17]

Argh! Poor you!

Okay; Shep's team flees through the Gate. Wraith cruiser hovers over gate. I swear the cruiser actually looks p*ssed. Cruiser takes off in that way that cruisers have of showing exactly where and who its going to. Yup, you guessed it: Cruiser shows up outside the window of the sleazy leader. Mr. Sleazebag puts hand to mouth and makes the classic silent scream of horror. The End.

Thanks Tok'Ra Hostess and everybody else who helped out with the ending, now I see what you all mean about how the ending sucked because it was rushed, still liked the episode a lot though and I really wish I could have seen the expression on the Magistrates face and his classic scream of horror LOL. Now I see what the spoilers meant by the team meeting a new human enemy in this episode...no wonder, a lot of innocents obviously died and the criminals got away with the help of SGA I'm actually suprised theres anything left of Alesia (sp?) at least for them to be worthy enemies, oh yeah I forgot, "Shawn" is to "civilized" to destroy a whole world. Without the planet he'll have to go out of his way to get his human life stock, wine and the other "finer things of life" from another planet.

[*AtlantisFan*]

i loved this episode. The funniest part was when Sheppard was trying to break the stick on his knee, and it wouldn't break. I loved all the action and Weir got to go offworld. I love the new Weir she seems like a strong character. McKay was his usual sarcastic self, it's not a Atantis episode without that. Can't wait till friday for the new one to air.