The Siege, Part 3 (201)

[Lida]

Well... yeah, I think those points of Major Fischer's are legitimate. My only criticism of this episode is that they packed way too much stuff into it. I felt like Ford's plot needed an episode unto itself instead of being squeezed into the last half of this one. The only way to get everything in was to seriously simplify things, and that meant that they were compromising the characters a bit. Ford's already attacked Beckett and he's probably the most serious case on the base — after all, they were sending wounded to the Daedalus. Surely they could have had someone keeping an eye on him to see to it that he was actually sedated.

As for the Wraith enzyme, Hatcheter already explained that enzymes aren't genes. I blinked when he showed up in the cockpit of the jumper, but I don't think he was actually flying it. He was sitting in the copilot's seat, after all. We've seen him dial the gate before, so the jumper must have some automatic protocol that sends the jumper into the bay and through the gate when someone dials from it.

If the puddle jumper had an "automatic pilot", why did we see only a select few flying it during the first season? Just a question.......And why was Shep the only one to try and fly a nuke into a Wraith mother ship? Couldn't they have used the "autopilot" then? And I stated "enzyme" NOT gene! I do know the difference! Oh, forget it!

I give up!

Have a nice day all.

[Major Fischer]

I tend to agree with you about the SuperFord thing, but being combative with another poster is just plain ignorant.

Josh, welcome to the forum. While I understand the impluse to defend someone when you think they are being attacked, I certainly wasn't being 'combative' I was debating. Lida is a perfectly reasonable person and we were both being perfectly reasonable with each other. I've been dealing with other matters for the last few months, but I do have a reputation on thsi form I am proud of, and 2600+ posts under my belt. I am well aware of what is and is not acceptable behavior.

On other terms:

I understand and respect people being gunshy about ship given how badly it was handled in SG1 but in general I don't think that it was forced in this episode. Those that wanted to see it saw it, and those who did not could have a justification for the characters behavior. IMO probably the best of both worlds.

The Jumper autopilot:

I think what Mel was suggesting was that when you dial an address into the DHD while the jumper is on Atlantis it automatically goes to the gate. That would explain why Sheppard knew that Ford would abandon the jumper on the destination world and go on by foot. Because he knew Ford couldn't actually fly it.

[Melyanna]

If the puddle jumper had an "automatic pilot", why did we see only a select few flying it during the first season? Just a question.......And why was Shep the only one to try and fly a nuke into a Wraith mother ship? Couldn't they have used the "autopilot" then? And I stated "enzyme" NOT gene! I do know the difference! Oh, forget it!

I give up!

Have a nice day all.

I must not have explained myself clearly.

I did not mean it has an automatic pilot. I meant that it might have some series of automatic procedures that activate when someone dials its DHD from the jumper bay. That would neatly explain how Ford was able to "fly" it out, and also how Sheppard knew he was going to ditch the jumper. He'd have no choice.

I was mostly addressing how Ford was flying it when we knew that as of Hot Zone, he didn't have the ATA gene. I wasn't getting into the enzyme issue.

As for the enzyme/gene thing, the point is pretty much moot anyway. Teyla has actual Wraith DNA, and we've seen her operating things in the jumper without problems. Obviously it can distinguish between a Wraith and a human with Wraith elements in his physiology. You have to have the ATA gene to fly the thing, yes. But obviously dialing the gate doesn't require the gene (Sheppard ordered Teyla to dial the gate in Letters from Pegasus, and she doesn't have it, as of Hot Zone). If there's some automatic procedure that the jumper does by itself, that would explain how Ford managed to take the jumper.

And there's no reason to be snippy, which is how your last message reads to me. I could be mistaken. No one's insulted you, and most of us are trying to discuss the episode politely.

[Giantevilhead]

It was great. The Daedalus kicked butt. The Wraiths are doomed once they build a fleet of Daedalus equipped with Ancient/Asgard weapons.

[Ace]

The Jumper autopilot:

I think what Mel was suggesting was that when you dial an address into the DHD while the jumper is on Atlantis it automatically goes to the gate. That would explain why Sheppard knew that Ford would abandon the jumper on the destination world and go on by foot. Because he knew Ford couldn't actually fly it.

That theory doesn't exactly work out... because if there was an actual automatic protocol that allows you to dial an address and the jumper automatically flies through the gate why wouldn't Ford just dial another address when he gets to the planet and take the jumper with him?

I certainly think that this is the closest theory anybody has come yet to figuring out how Ford could have used the jumper but I don't think we've found the answer yet?

Hopefully somebody will ask Joe M. and we'll have the answer soon enough

Ace

[Major Fischer]

That theory doesn't exactly work out... because if there was an actual autopilot that allows you to dial and address and the jumper automatically flies through the gate why wouldn't Ford just dial another address when he gets to the planet and take the jumper with him?

If such an automatic proceedure exists, than it's possible it only applies when the Jumper is in Atlantis. That way the jumper (which overrides the Atlantis DHD) can't be used to lock up the gate permenantly.

[Melyanna]

That theory doesn't exactly work out... because if there was an actual autopilot that allows you to dial and address and the jumper automatically flies through the gate why wouldn't Ford just dial another address when he gets to the planet and take the jumper with him?

I meant just in Atlantis, which would make some sense. After all, to get the jumper out, you have to get it out into the middle of the room, open up the ceiling of the gate room, lower the jumper, maneuver it into position, and guide it through the gate. And that ship takes off pretty quickly. There's not much room for error, so it makes some sense that a computer somewhere is controlling it instead of a pilot who could accidentally kill a lot of people if he makes a mistake.

[ShadowMaat]

For the record, Major Fischer is hardly the type to go attacking anyone. I haven't seen her posts as being even remotely combative and only the most sensitive of souls could view her posts otherwise.

Let's not go LOOKING for trouble, eh? It finds us all readily enough WITHOUT our help.

I'll give up on the whole gene vs. enzyme business. I know there's a world of difference between the two and I admit that my excitement over the ep and the three pieces of fudge I'd just eaten might have affected my judgement a bit. However, it still bugs me that he has been physically altered, be it from a gene, an enzyme or a grape lollipop. But maybe enzymes are capable of that. Certainly more capable than lollipops. I'll drop it, but it still bugs me, so there.

All in all a pretty good ep. but hardly the BEST THANG EVAH!! And probably only middling to very good in terms of stuff in the Stargate franchise. I hope they'll build off this and lead us to even more spectacular eps.

[Ace]

If such an automatic proceedure exists, than it's possible it only applies when the Jumper is in Atlantis. That way the jumper (which overrides the Atlantis DHD) can't be used to lock up the gate permenantly.

But why just Atlantis... you could sit in a cloaked jumper on another planet and lock up the gate permenantly! Why would the Ancients think it was necessary for just Atlantis?

It's their own city... who would want to disrupt gate operations in their own city? A wraith couldn't have infiltrated the city as the shields would have been up and the internal sensors would have also picked up a wraith.

So if such an automatic protocol does exist, it would only make sense for it to exist in conjuction with other DHD's...

It makes sense actually because fitting a jumper nice and neat into a Stargate is hard enough on it's own yet to do it when flying at full speed under fire would be damn near impossible. So it would make sense for a automatic protocol to take over and fly the jumper through the gate automatically. Like a plane using the autopilot to land...

So it would have to be enacted on every stargate; which would mean that Ford would be able to use the jumper to go to any stargate in the galaxy and not actually fly it. But that's the only thing he could do...

It doesn't explain why he would just leave it; other than the fact that he doesn't want it as it's not much use to him and subconciously he wants the Atlantis expedition to have it as it would be of more use to them.

For now that's the story I'm going with...

Ace

[Major Fischer]

But why just Atlantis... you could sit in a cloaked jumper on another planet and lock up the gate permenantly! Why would the Ancients think it was necessary for just Atlantis?

The Ancients, IMO, have never shown a great deal of concern for anyone but themselves.

[ShadowMaat]

The Ancients, IMO, have never shown a great deal of concern for anyone but themselves.

Bit disappointing, that. I liked the Ancients when they were a great and mysterious species. Now that they're just... us, it takes a lot of the fun out of it.

[Ace]

The Ancients, IMO, have never shown a great deal of concern for anyone but themselves.

That may be...

Ace

[sg1_david]

no doubt mentioned already but I loved the 'whispering' bit and when the ammo fell out McKays gun. and is it just me or did Ford look like Kano from Mortal Kombat with 'the eye'?

[NightGloom]

Wow... what a great episode!

Daedalus- that was AMAZING! And the hiveships... I have nothing more to say but "WOW!"

Skinner's on Atlantis! YAY!

SuperFord- What the...? They couldn't save him for maybe another episode and not just randomly throw him in there? Did they really have to get him out of there right away? I think they needed a little more story there.

Wraiths in Atlantis- McKay was hilarious! "OK! YOU WANT SOME OF THIS?!" Then the clip falls out of the gun.





And then there was...

Shep/Weir ship- where did that come from?! NO SHIP IN ATLANTIS! I'm glad I taped it because I just sat there motionless and not comprehending anything else one the screen for like 5 minutes. It's just... a hug?! Was that really necessary? Look at how passionately the Sam/Jack ship divided SG-1 fans- do they have to do it to Atlantis too?

[g.o.d]

WOW, such an amazing epi!!!!!!!!one question only-what the heck did Hermiod say when they transported the nuke??