The Siege, Part 3 (201)

[QuiGonJohn]

To all. Just to clarify, I am not saying that it doesn't make sense the ZPM would deplete faster when continually holding off an attack powering the shield. It does make sense.

Rather, I just think the times seemed skewed a little too much. Assuming it was mostly a fully powered ZPM, we know it can last for over 3300 years, keeping minimal power mode and still a shield, submerged below the ocean. Now we are using it for greater power use, and yes, staving off the attack. But it just doesn't seem to make sense that this change in usage would drop it's life to mere weeks. Maybe 1000 years would be more beleivable, or even 100 years. But neither of these would fit the plot device of worrying it's gonna run out too soon. And like I said before, if such use really would deplete ZPM's so quickly, then I think the ancients would have had a room full of spares available.

Thanks!

[Standback]

After all the excitement, joy, hapiness about the new season, I'd like to take a quick moment to point out, among the many things I liked a lot, something that I disliked, and in fact bothered me a whole lot about this episode.

What I'm referring to here is the episode's structure and pacing. A lot about it seemed... wrong. Let me explain what I'm talking about.

The last few weeks of Season One were building up the Wraith attack on Atlantis. "They're Coming" was the basic message here. And the season ended with the Siege II cliffhanger - slim chances of surviving the attack, and Sheppard on a suicide run.

OK, new season. "Previously on Stargate: Atlantis." They're coming. They're here. Slim chances. Suicide run. "And now... the conclusion."

Enter the Daedalus. Nab Sheppard! Here's the ZPM! Blow up the Wraith! Bam, bam, bam. In ten minutes, the entire cliffhanger and suspense have been resolved. Everything's OK again! Silly us for worrying all these months! And just like that, everything they've been building up all this time is gone. Finished. Resolved.

Oh no!, they suddenly realize. We've still got thirty minutes left to the show! Oops. We'd better put Atlantis back in danger! Better bring in:

A dozen Wraith hive ships. OK, something I'm distinctly missing: last time sensors flipped on and blared out a warning when 3 Wraith ships were, what, a couple of weeks away? Less? Not much. I don't remember the exact number, but enough time for "Letters" and "Gift" to take place, and all the preparations for "Siege." Time. Now, 12 Wraith hive ships get within a day's range undetected? How did that happen?

These 12 ships, BTW, have nowhere near the menace the first 3 did. The first three we saw coming. The crew were dreading them for weeks. "They're coming. Oh no. Are they here yet? Oh **** oh **** oh ****. We're all really worried. We're all gonna die. Are they here yet?" When 12 ships pop up out of nowhere, though, the most you can hope for is "Huh? Oh, ****."

And then, after demolishing two or three hive ships, suddenly we're back on the defensive. "Um. For no apparant reason, we can't use the blow-them-all-up-really-easily button any more." Clearly the Wraith weren't prepared for this from the first 3 ships - or they wouldn't have managed to off the first couple. But then, within instants of two ships being blown to cinders, the Wraith (whose technological acumen has yet to be seen) are able to pinpoint the cause of the explosion, note that the bombs were teleported inside, and from these few seconds of observing this alien technology in action glean enough understanding of the teleporter to block it entirely?

No reason is given. Which is probably a good thing; if Hermiod had said something about adjusting shield frequencies, I think we all would have screamed. But all in all, I found both the introduction of the additional 12 ships and the failure of the Asgard transporter to be very poorly written plot twists - too convenient, too well-timed, too contrived to be believable. It's rare that I feel this way about a Stargate episode, especially to this extent, and I am curious to know to what extent other fans noticed or minded.

Again, there was much to like about "Siege, Part III". There were wonderful moments with all the characters, and excellent plot twists for Ford, Atlantis, and the Wraith, the repercussions of which I'm avidly looking forward to in the new season. None of which is an excuse for poor pacing or contrived plot twists - but they do make them a hell of a lot more bearable.

[Steve_the_Wraith]

I completely agree with you, up untill now the zpm was this long lasting very powerful power supply and it still is but it does make you think because the shields deplete them so quickly why aren't their more of them, either in atlantis or on other planets. maybe they have an ancients version of radioshack in atlantis they just haven't found yet.

I agree with you the ZPM seemed like it should have lasted much longer but on the other hand there were alot of wraith ships (10 hiveships, 45 cruisers, 10,000+ darts) firing almost continuously on the the shield

[TheCorpulent1]

A dozen Wraith hive ships. OK, something I'm distinctly missing: last time sensors flipped on and blared out a warning when 3 Wraith ships were, what, a couple of weeks away? Less? Not much. I don't remember the exact number, but enough time for "Letters" and "Gift" to take place, and all the preparations for "Siege." Time. Now, 12 Wraith hive ships get within a day's range undetected? How did that happen?

Remember the nuclear mine-field Everett and the crew set up in "The Siege II"? Well, when the Wraith detonated it with asteroids, one of the people (I don't remember who) says that the radiation has knocked out Atlantis' long-range scanners. That's part of why the second part of "The Siege" was so tense: The Wraith took out the Atlantis crew's first line of defense AND eliminated Atlantis' ability to see where the hive ships are in one fell swoop. McKay even comments on it later, when Everett asks him the status of the Wraith. Without sensors, all McKay can respond with is, "They're coming. Eventually, they'll get here. That's their status."

As for the contrivance regarding the other hive ships' inability to adapt instantly to the teleporting nukes, maybe the Wraith needed to actually get readings on the Asgard teleportation technology to effect counter-measures. Sacrificing 2 of 12 hive ships is nothing big for them, considering their primary weapon is their vastly superior numbers. They let their own go kamikaze and/or sacrifice them routinely, as we've seen many times already.

[macktheknife]

They may have been working on it from the first time it happened. Perhaps the wraith version of McKay\Carter\Wesley Crusher was on one of the cruisers.

Also. FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE HAS THE SAME AVATAR AS ME!!!!!!

[NotANumber]

Rather, I just think the times seemed skewed a little too much. Assuming it was mostly a fully powered ZPM, we know it can last for over 3300 years, keeping minimal power mode and still a shield, submerged below the ocean. Now we are using it for greater power use, and yes, staving off the attack. But it just doesn't seem to make sense that this change in usage would drop it's life to mere weeks. Maybe 1000 years would be more beleivable, or even 100 years. But neither of these would fit the plot device of worrying it's gonna run out too soon.

I thought about that myself, but there are no specifics given about a lot of the science and physics questions that might arise if you actually tried to work it out - What kind of pressure would the water have exerted on the submerged city? What is the force of gravity on this planet? How many megatons did the Wraith bombs dropped on the shields pack?

And like I said before, if such use really would deplete ZPM's so quickly, then I think the ancients would have had a room full of spares available.

Perhaps they did have a store room fulls of ZPMs, but took them when they left Atlantis for Earth. But then why didn't Janus leave any lying around in Before I Sleep? But maybe he didn't have any kind of authority to be "misplacing" ZPMs. But... oh I think I'll stop speculating now.

[TheCorpulent1]

A few hundred feet of water wouldn't exert too much pressure on the shield. A few miles, certainly, but a few hundred feet, no way. The force of gravity appears to be comparable to that of Earth, enough so that none of the expedition members have ever mentioned the gravity. Given how quickly they would've depleted the shields, I'd guess the Wraith's bombardment was either an incredibly high-yield energy weapon or some kind of weapon that actually siphoned off power from the shield on contact until they dissipated. Whatever it was was draining the shield at an astronomical rate.

[NotANumber]

We know that the Wraith hive ships were able to adapt their ships to prevent the Daedalus from teleporting nuclear weapons aboard fairly quickly, and they did lay siege to Atlantis for years at one point. So it's possible they developed some kind of technique to drain the city's shields.

[Standback]

the radiation has knocked out Atlantis' long-range scanners.

For how long? How long did the actual siege last? I may be misremembering, but I got the impression of a couple days at most, if not less.

As to both the sensors and the transporters, the most you can say for them is that the twists were remotely possible, but highly unlikely. If they'd been backed up, set up, if time had been devoted to make them more believable - IMHO the episode would have been vastly improved. "Contrived" doesn't mean flat-out impossible - just a very heavy-handed handling of the plot.

And as for this:

Also. FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE HAS THE SAME AVATAR AS ME!!!!!!

Well, but of course. What other base-level avatar speaks so elequently of intelligence, erudition, sophistication, and deep-rooted appreciation of Robert Picardo?

[Elite Anubis Guard]

Havent seen the episode but I've read the transcript and its alot better than Avalon and a nice end of the trilogy.

[TheCorpulent1]

For how long? How long did the actual siege last? I may be misremembering, but I got the impression of a couple days at most, if not less.

As to both the sensors and the transporters, the most you can say for them is that the twists were remotely possible, but highly unlikely. If they'd been backed up, set up, if time had been devoted to make them more believable - IMHO the episode would have been vastly improved. "Contrived" doesn't mean flat-out impossible - just a very heavy-handed handling of the plot.

I'm assuming the sensors were knocked out right up until the 12 other hive ships popped up on them. There were something like a dozen or more naquadah-enhanced nuclear bombs up there. That's a hell of a lot of hard radiation.

It was a bit contrived, but it doesn't bother me much. All but the absolute best of the best science fiction is contrived in some way or another, so it's just a matter of how much you're willing to suspend your disbelief. It could've been handled better, but I think the end result was still entertaining and that's all that's important to me.

[gwangung]

As for the contrivance regarding the other hive ships' inability to adapt instantly to the teleporting nukes, maybe the Wraith needed to actually get readings on the Asgard teleportation technology to effect counter-measures. Sacrificing 2 of 12 hive ships is nothing big for them, considering their primary weapon is their vastly superior numbers. They let their own go kamikaze and/or sacrifice them routinely, as we've seen many times already.

That's not a contriviance...that's bare minimum competency. That would apply for our heroes or for their antgonists.

[QuiGonJohn]

Well, from the "previously on" segment, it seems that McKay said the shield, (or the ZPM), would only last days under the Wraith attack, not even weeks.

[SmartFox]

All i have to say is great, great and great.

Well maybe ill say some more. All the fight scenes were great. The charachters were great. The plot was great. Do i have another word to use besides great. No, except maybe excellent. I had missed Mckay, Sheppard and everyone so much. Alantis was way better then SG-1 and i hope Alantis continues to be good. (i wouldnt mind SG-1 getting better either)

[ShadowMaat]

Does anyone else find it odd that the Wraith didn't even attempt to send down scouting parties to sift through the wreckage? Yes, Teyla managed to convince them they were leaving, but I dunno how reliable I'd consider her, especially if I were a Wraith. And even if they "knew" the city was going to be blown up and even if they saw the imprint of the nuke, I, personally, would still send someone down to investigate, just on the off chance that the "pitiful humans" screwed up and didn't set the explosives right.

Weir and Zelenka were making a very big deal out of blowing up the city as completely as possible so that no pieces could possibly be left, but would one little nuke manage to do that? To the city of the Ancients? A city that has traversed millions of lightyears and outlasted both a previous Wraith war and thousands of years under water?

And if the Wraith are so het up about trying to get to Earth, wouldn't they grasp at ANY straw if it meant a possibility of bountiful new feeding grounds? I wouldn't care if you showed me full-on video footage of the various parts of the city blowing up and/or disintegrating, I'd STILL want to be down there, myself, looking for pieces to salvage. ESPECIALLY the stargate.