The Siege, Part 2 (120)

[GatetheWay]

e. Daedalus. Had it been mentioned before this ep? I didn't think so, which makes it's sudden incorporation into the show seem a tad deus ex machina.

What wasn't good:
a. I think I'm going into SG withdrawl already. Help!

The Daedalus was in fact mentioned before just not on Atlantis. In the begining of Moebius Part I Sam quickly mentions that it is the sister ship of the Prometheus and that it will be finished when the Asgaurd beaming technology is installed. It does feel a little inserted though.

And I too think I'm going through SG withdrawl.

[DarkQuee1]

When Jack made the Staff weapion reactor thing it waso nly used to jump start wormhole until it could draw power from the Asgard planet. If the SGC hooked up the reactors and tried to power it up they would only have a wormhole for a few seconds liek in LFP.

Where did you get the idea that the gate was drawing power from the Asgard planet? First, we've never been told that the gate draws any power from any of the destinations it dials. Ever. And, second, we weren't told it in "Fifth Race", either. The only power source for the gate in that ep was the device that Jack built.

And apparently, from your answer, I didn't miss pertinent dialogue in The Siege. Apparently, they never address the question of why the Marines just didn't bring the ZPM with them--except for the needed plot device of not having the shield when the Wraith arrive. And this is symptomatic of the both SG1 and Atlantis at this point: the writers have been going for the easy or simplistic solution, and they haven't been thinking their ideas all the way through.

The data base is huge. Plus they have to translate it. Its not like they can translate and go through the whole database in a few days.

A few days? They've been on Atlantis for months at the least, and they've needed power from the beginning. Why haven't they been looking for the blueprints/instructions? Again, a concept not throught through.

Because he needs to look at the stuff that happens when someone sits in it and figure out the data. Plus maybe the chair is harder to work so is easier with someone who has the gene directly.

I could buy the second explanation--though they need to say, if that's the case. And we are told that they are upping the genes in pilots to send them right out in puddlejumpers. However, in regard to the former, we do have Zelenka there to read and interpret the data. Let Rodney put his money where his mouth is!

Well see how calm you are when a beast that can suck the life out of you in seconds is walking towards you.

Yeah, but I'm not a battle-hardened Marine. I expect him to (a) keep his head, (especially as, judging from his dialogue with Sheppard earlier, he really doesn't understand the life-sucking thing) and (b) *use* his head and think about his options. He doesn't. Once more, it's careless writing, because it should be out of character for Everett to be that stupid.


J.

[ShadowMaat]

I thought the ZPM was being used to power the gate. Bit of a dodgy thing to unplug it and try running through before the wormhole collapses.

[John Preston]

The original Stargate system did have a power reliance on the destination gate, as was proven in I believe the episode wherein Hammond is being blackmailed, steps down and they basically turn a planet into a sun.

The device that was used, and can be called a crappy ZPM I guess, was lost in the second Alternate Universe episode, wherein they used it to contact the Asgard there....I think.

>.>



What I want to know is-- Where are the puddle jumpers which could be flying about unloading their weaponry on darts?

[DarkQuee1]

The original Stargate system did have a power reliance on the destination gate, as was proven in I believe the episode wherein Hammond is being blackmailed, steps down and they basically turn a planet into a sun.

The device that was used, and can be called a crappy ZPM I guess, was lost in the second Alternate Universe episode, wherein they used it to contact the Asgard there....I think.

Even if in "Chain Reaction" the naquadah-enhanced explosion was somehow feeding the gate--rather than simply interfering with the ability to shut it down--we did not have the same situation in any of the other episodes, including the Fifth Race. There was no activity, including on Othalla, that would enhance the gate, and we have never been told that, in ordinary gate usage, any power is drawn from the gate at the other end.

As to the device: while we loaned it to the AU, nowhere in the ep does it say that we didn't bring it back with us. In addition, our SGC had it at the base for about a year. Are we to assume that none of the scientists, Sam included, studied it, made blueprints and/or drawings of it (not to mention Jack's original drawing)? That would make them pretty darn stupid, wouldn't it?

Most importantly, my point was not that we could use that specific device, but that all it took to provide sufficient power to open the gate to another galaxy was the power in a staff weapon. Surely the modified naquadah generators could provide sufficient power.

My problem is, as no one in the ep bothers to explain why they couldn't use the generators, it strikes me that the writers never thought about the question. It's that not thinking things through again.


J.

[John Preston]

Aye, plotholes are sometimes odd, especially in this instance.
The only reason why it can't be done I can think of is, as if by magic:
1) The object was lost and the blueprints, while good, do not allow for a recreation due to an inadequacy on the part of scientists to recreate it.
2) The object burnt out due to being used two times, and something happened with blueprints.
3) The writers don't watch Stargate.

[GatetheWay]

Even if in "Chain Reaction" the naquadah-enhanced explosion was somehow feeding the gate--rather than simply interfering with the ability to shut it down--we did not have the same situation in any of the other episodes, including the Fifth Race. There was no activity, including on Othalla, that would enhance the gate, and we have never been told that, in ordinary gate usage, any power is drawn from the gate at the other end.

There have been quite a few ep.s that have said the wormhole draws its energy from either side. Both '48 Hours' and 'Home' say that energy can be drawn by either gate. I think.

Anyway as for Rodney using Carson to power the chair instead of using himself it is flatly said in 'The Gift':

McKAY: And in order to do that, it needs to be on.
BECKETT: You have the gene now!
McKAY: Yeah, but I can’t be trying to analyse the feedback data while I’m concentrating on keeping the damn thing activated!
BECKETT (to Zelenka): Why don’t you analyse it?
ZELENKA: Well, I could analyse it, but Rodney doesn’t think that I ...

Then he was cut off by Weir but you get the point.

[lord-anubis]

i think i am the only one who liked Colonel Everett's it just seem cool to have some one who want to put a fight. i guess its beacsse all season they have bee runing from the warith and talking about leaveing atlanits and now some one comes along finaly who wants to take some names and kick some ass

[jyh]

Weir's whole storyline with the Genii was very impressive. It's nice to see TPTB finally utilizing Weir in her intended role.

Oddly, I found the whole Weir/Genii scene to be totally random. On one hand, I do agree that it's good that she finally (!!!) got to use her negotiation skills. (Funny, because she always sends Sheppard to negotiate and make first contact.) But I think it was just a little throwaway scene to drum up some minor, short-lived drama while Genii-guy had her blindfolded and threatened her. Yes, I know, we need to use the weapon they've been developing, which does make the scene somewhat relevant, but I felt like they threw in some manufactured drama just to draw out the scene a little more.

[ShadowMaat]

Probably. And I did get a sense of that. But I was just happy to see her actually get to DO something for a change!

[watcher652]

5. Who exactly was this ep supposed to be in memory of?

Bob Scarabelli was the President and CEO of Rainmaker, the company that does the visual effects for Stargate. He died of a heart attack in Sept 2004. He was only 48.

[watcher652]

Can anyone tell me the name of the coffee-drinking Canuck scientist/gate tech who's been popping up in recent eps? I KNOW I've seen him somewhere before. I wanna say it's Brendan Beiser, but he's kinda my default Generic Vancouver Actor, so I could be wildly wrong.

I think this is Chuck Campbell, who is billed as “Technician” on imdb and GateWorld. Looks like Campbell is from Halifax, Nova Scotia.

If you look up Stargate Atlantis guest cast on imdb, you can see that Campbell makes his first appearance in "The Brotherhood". He's the only tech guy doing any talking, so it must be him.

I'm looking forward to a name for his character next season.

[watcher652]

I haven’t read all the preceding posts, so forgive me if I’m repeating some points that have already been addressed.

I hated Col. Everett. But not because of his military attitude, which was so cliché it was painful and so un-Stargate in quality. But we’ve seen that kind of attitude before in countless TV shows and movies. What I hated was his accent. Was it supposed to be some gung ho Texas accent? Because it wasn’t. Or if somebody can say, yeah, that’s a real Dallas accent that guy has, I say, so what? I thought it was fake. Everybody in the room watching Atlantis with me thought it was fake. And that took all the drama out of the character. Maybe the actor is a good actor. I don’t know, I’m not familiar with him. But he was totally wrong vocally for this role. He only looked the part. He didn’t act the part. I hated him for his accent, not for what he represented. And he made the show so much less than it could have been.

It seems inconceivable that O’Neill could have sent this jerk, by the way.

And then he supposedly softened up. Let Weir have her chair back. Told Teyla the Athosians could help in the fight after he brushed her off with a “We can handle it ourselves, (with an implied “don’t worry your pretty little head/you’re an alien, I don’t trust you”)” remark. Well, the Wraith gene thing was understandable. But, I owe you a drink, Weir. Oh, he came off as so sexist! It was slimy and dirty. And I don’t think that’s what they were going for.

But other than the disappointment of Everett, the show was great. Wonderful special effects, wonderful character interactions by the regular cast. The regular cast is so good, the guest cast pales by comparison. The show really has to be careful in its casting. The guests have to measure up to the great acting of the regular cast or the show just doesn’t work. *cough* Chaya *cough*

Sheppard sticking up for Weir when Everett tries to take over with barely a by your leave. That was great. And so Sheppard.

One of my favorite parts was the reactions of Zelenka and McKay when McKay was cut out of the defense strategy meeting.

McKay: I should be in that meeting. I am the foremost expert on the defense capabilities of this city.
Zelenka: You know how it is. When military steps in, scientists take a back seat.
McKay: Until they need us.
Zelenka: They don't think they need us.
McKay: Yeah, they don't think they need us, right up until the point that they need us, and then, they need us.
Zelenka: Then they need us.

And, sure enough, the scientists are needed.

And later, this exchange.

Everett: Can you do it?
McKay: I knew this was going to happen.
Everett: Is that a fact?
McKay: Yes, it's a fact. Look, you show up here with your guns and your brush cuts, but when it comes to actually saving the city, you turn to the scientists! And every time what you ask is impossible!

But McKay and Zelenka come up with an idea. The scientists save the day. Possibly. It was a great idea. But they were depending on Milky Way tech. Which turns out wasn't such a smart thing to do.

I love how when the chips where down, it was Sheppard who gives the remote control Puddle Jumper idea to McKay, knowing that all the exhausted scientist needed was a focus. And Sheppard also came up with the Genii nuke idea. Experience, with McKay, and in the field, gave Sheppard his edge.

I laughed when Everett, in response to McKay's outburst, asks when was the last time McKay slept. Ok, he hasn't slept, but McKay would have told the guy off anyway. Being well rested or not had nothing to do with McKay's reaction with the way Everett was treating the scientists.

Weir uses her diplomatic skills to convince the Genii to give us their nukes. Great use of the character.

Another scene. Sheppard was in the chair to power up the PJs. McKay is trying to power up the chair but says the generator is dead. (Stupid untested has to work in a state of barely controlled overload Mark 2). McKay continues to work on the problem, but Sheppard knows it’s no use and they haven’t the time. Sheppard says quietly, “So long Rodney,” and runs for the Control Room. It takes a second for it to sink in with McKay, but he jumps up from the generator and shouts, ”Major!” But Sheppard is gone. I wanted to cry, that was more heartbreaking than Sheppard telling Weir, “I have to, and you know it,” as he’s on his way to the jumper bay.

Sheppard asking Weir instead of just going. He’s going, but he waits for her permission.

Beckett and McKay are in the Control Room with Weir when Sheppard says over the radio,”You know, if this works, somebody might have to do this again.” Unless Everett wasn’t a Wraith meal and knows how to fly, that means either Beckett or McKay. Which means McKay because Beckett doing that is inconceivable. McKay doing that is only slightly less so, though.

And then when McKay looking at the long range scanner and asking Weir, “You let Sheppard fly that Jumper?” Another lump in my throat.

McKay looking so exhausted gave a real touch of humanity to everything.

That was the great stuff. Some stuff I have questions about (but in no way takes away from the episode, just some things to ponder about until Season 2) -

Beckett’s phobia about Ancient tech needs to be examined further. It’s making him look like a wuss and we know he’s not. Just because of that one incident in Antarctica… Maybe they need to find some really cool Ancient medical tech that he’s comfortable with. I kind of like the idea that Beckett has trouble with Ancient stuff that’s used for fighting. Seems he would just have a hard time making it work because it goes against his personality to harm anything because he's a medical doctor.

Of course the battle scenes were tremendous. Although I keep wondering what firing P90’s at a Wraith ship can do. They do seem to make an impact, but I can’t see why they should. Maybe it’s realistic, but it’s just hard to understand for a non military, non armament person like myself.

I don’t get that the military wears camouflage gear but red berets. It may not be real life, but I would find it more believable for them to wear camouflage colored berets. Actually, I would find it more believable if they were all wearing some kind of helmet.

Jumping visually from tower to tower was cool once or twice. I think they did in a couple of times too many because it was starting to bug me.

Why Everett and Weir decide to check out the battle on a balcony where they could be beamed away or shot at is beyond me. Even if they lost primary systems and need to know what’s going on, being outside seemed a little irresponsible.

I don’t understand why Everett didn’t shoot that Wraith in the mouth. I know it’s a smaller target, but the Wraith was right on top of him. Seems to me that blowing its brains out might slow it down.

McKay went to Weir’s office to tell Weir and Everett there was a problem with the Genii nukes. When they all left Weir’s office, the door looked like it was going to close on Everett. My friends and I all cried out in disappointment that it didn’t catch him.

Guess that's enough for now. Sigh. What a great season.

[Matt G]

Bob Scarabelli was the President and CEO of Rainmaker, the company that does the visual effects for Stargate. He died of a heart attack in Sept 2004. He was only 48.

Ah! Thanks. RIP!

[Darkdreams]

Awesome Episode but I was really really pissed off that it was a threeparted and that I have to wait till june or July to see the ending dammit, oh well, thats just stinky of the writers......