Hot Zone (113)

[Commander Ivanova]

They didn't really explain why the hallucinations were identical. Ok, so the nanovirus particles targeted the same area of the brain in each case, but that still doesn't explain why everyone saw the same 'ghosts'.
That aside, loved seeing Rodney take charge like that, so manly and masterful. Completely contrasting with the bit where he thinks he's about to die at any second. From snark to snivel to snark in the space of a few seconds. Great stuff.

[captain jake]

Rodney cracks me up for such a wuss he sure is brave.

[Syera]

They didn't really explain why the hallucinations were identical. Ok, so the nanovirus particles targeted the same area of the brain in each case, but that still doesn't explain why everyone saw the same 'ghosts'.
That aside, loved seeing Rodney take charge like that, so manly and masterful. Completely contrasting with the bit where he thinks he's about to die at any second. From snark to snivel to snark in the space of a few seconds. Great stuff.

I think knowing he wasn't about to drop dead kind of did that for him.

[captain jake]

Are you making a joke?

[Syera]

Well... McKay didn't seem especially helpful whilst he was busy fretting over his impending demise.

I really didn't like how he got snippy with those whose lives were still on the line after he found out he wasn't going to die. What, it was perfectly fine for McKay to get edgy, but nobody else was allowed to be scared out of their pants? Gah.

[captain jake]

Yes I agree with that I just thought you might be being sarcastic nvm.

[meredithchandler73]

Really liked this episode. Conflict between Weir and Sheppard great and totally in character. I liked that at the end, although Sheppard realized that his actions didn't help (but in fact got more people infected), I didn't get the sense that this kind of thing wouldn't happen again in the future. (Please - don't spoil me! I'll find out for myself!)

And I'm a geek, I thought the prime/not prime game and how much it annoyed Ford was funny. His line to Zelenka about it being payback for getting beat up by guys like him in high school was just perfect.

[Anubisjackel]

I liked this episode. You got to see Sheppard get his ass kicked as Teyla lays into him with the sticks. You get to see the disobeying from Sheppard...when he decides not to sit and wait it out. You can tell that Teyla isn't too sure about disobeying anyone either...but she goes with him anyway. I know in future episodes she does put it in her report about him disobeying her. And it doesn't look good in his record...but most people (whether military or not) will do anything just to help out. They'll jump in a burning house just to rescue a cat or a dog. Even though he disobeyed her...he kept his mind on one thing...and that was to save everyone in Atlantis.

[teal'c2006]

I enjoyed the episode very much, it was a good episode , but not one of my favorite episode from season one.

[Suzann]

I liked this episode. You got to see Sheppard get his ass kicked as Teyla lays into him with the sticks. You get to see the disobeying from Sheppard...when he decides not to sit and wait it out. Y <snip> Even though he disobeyed her...he kept his mind on one thing...and that was to save everyone in Atlantis.

I think you - and Sheppard - have a valid point. This was a security issue and that is his area of responsibility. If he had been released immediately he could conceivably have been in a position to stop the scientist before anyone else was infected. I got the impression that Elizabeth made the decision she did primarily because she felt she didn't have enough information to make an informed decision. And coming from a diplomatic background, delay is often the best strategy in trying to coax two sides together. Delay isn't always the best strategy when the clock is ticking on an emergency. I think she also was leery of exposing anyone else (Sheppard) to the unknown. I also got a sense that at least part of her reaction was concern for her authority. It became important that Sheppard obey her as much to demonstrate obedience as to avoid any potential repercussions of his being out and about. I suspect that Sheppard felt that she was not basing her decision on the actual circumstances but on ifs, ands, or buts that might or might not happen. He just wanted to deal with what what within his purview and capabilities. I think his major error was in not recognizing when it was too late for him to stop the man. Eventually, he would have had to be let out in order to pilot the jumper but I don't think he would have felt he was doing his job just waiting around and hoping no one else got loose while a solution was found.

[Integrabyte]

I like this episode because it clearly shows how "civilians" are thrown out the window when "the military" comes into play. First of all, Weir was in charge and she made the right choice by confining everyone to their quarters. This what a smart person does without detailed information. Lone ranger here, had the run and gun enthusiasm and undermined Weir in order to save the day without knowing in what he was getting into. I am not fooled by the fact that Braveheart saved the day. At the end of the day, this is the typical Hollywood cliché: Cops can only solve cases after they are suspended, marines/air force officers can save the day only when they break the rules and do not follow orders.

[blue-skyz]

Reposted from a related discussion of Season 4's Miller's Crossing (no spoilers)

During the pre season 4 marathon, I looked only at what was going on with Sheppard and Elizabeth.
This was from the marathon with a little editing from when I put the link in my Adrift review.
I’ve gotten more positive about it since then.
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....&postcount=163

This was put together from stuff written for another thread in November so it’s kind of choppy.

The main issues:
* Peterson can defeat the ancient technology of the doors and get to areas where he could infect others. This has nothing to do with anything Sheppard does.
* Elizabeth and Grodin never come up with a definitive way to stop Peterson. They never even consider sending anyone after him. They never ask for advice.

Go back and really watch The Hot Zone and follow only what happens between Sheppard, Weir and Peterson.

Elizabeth initiated a voluntary quarantine. Sheppard talked to her immediately after her announcement. This is three minutes after he could have come to the control room, but she made him stay there anyway (no where near the affected area). He stayed there. Her decision was arbitrary (and punitive?).

Peterson started to make his way toward the control room. McKay told Elizabeth that Peterson could defeat the ancient technology and get to areas where he could infect others. This is a security situation. Sheppard sees the danger of having a sick, unbalanced man heading to the control room and possibly though the gate. Elizabeth basically ignores the problem. Elizabeth and Grodin never came up with a definitive way to stop him. He just kept going toward the control room. They never even considered sending anyone after him. The transporters were down, but he didn’t need them to get to the control room.

The transporters were turned on for Sheppard. (Bates had to agree with Sheppard's evaluation of the situation.) However, the transporters were never necessary for Peterson to get to populated areas or the control room and the stargate. He was going to get there anyway and no one in the control room ever said anything about sending security to stop him. Elizabeth never took any kind of direct action. At this point it was a security/military situation and Elizabeth did not call it. Sheppard did what needed to be done. He did stop Peterson, but, by a fluke, he escaped into a transporter and on to the mess hall. (The transporters could have been turned back off.)

Bates was never part of any discussion of how to solve the problem. He never suggested sending security after Peterson. No action was ever taken.

McKay thought of the EMP; Sheppard thought of using the naqahdah generator. And it took Sheppard and McKay ganging up on Elizabeth to get her to let them use it.

Elizabeth was clearly out of her element, but did not seek advice from the right people. She was not the one qualified to be making these decisions and she failed to recognize it. She never admitted to any possibility that she may have been to severe with the quarantine where Sheppard was concerned or that she would have had to let him try to solve the problem, anyway.

Elizabeth later says that she is the one to decide what is a military situation. Sheppard says that some times he sees things differently. They never finish the conversation.

The thing is they were both right and wrong. Sheppard took the hit and continues to every time disobeying orders comes up.

Had the problem been addressed correctly, as a security issue, there would have been no question of insubordination. Hence, military leadership has its benefits.

[expendable_crewman]

This was put together from stuff written for another thread in November so it’s kind of choppy.

The main issues:
* Peterson can defeat the ancient technology of the doors and get to areas where he could infect others. This has nothing to do with anything Sheppard does.
* Elizabeth and Grodin never come up with a definitive way to stop Peterson. They never even consider sending anyone after him. They never ask for advice.

Go back and really watch The Hot Zone and follow only what happens between Sheppard, Weir and Peterson.

Elizabeth initiated a voluntary quarantine. Sheppard talked to her immediately after her announcement. This is three minutes after he could have come to the control room, but she made him stay there anyway (no where near the affected area). He stayed there. Her decision was arbitrary (and punitive?).

Peterson started to make his way toward the control room. McKay told Elizabeth that Peterson could defeat the ancient technology and get to areas where he could infect others. This is a security situation. Sheppard sees the danger of having a sick, unbalanced man heading to the control room and possibly though the gate. Elizabeth basically ignores the problem. Elizabeth and Grodin never came up with a definitive way to stop him. He just kept going toward the control room. They never even considered sending anyone after him. The transporters were down, but he didn’t need them to get to the control room.

The transporters were turned on for Sheppard. (Bates had to agree with Sheppard's evaluation of the situation.) However, the transporters were never necessary for Peterson to get to populated areas or the control room and the stargate. He was going to get there anyway and no one in the control room ever said anything about sending security to stop him. Elizabeth never took any kind of direct action. At this point it was a security/military situation and Elizabeth did not call it. Sheppard did what needed to be done. He did stop Peterson, but, by a fluke, he escaped into a transporter and on to the mess hall. (The transporters could have been turned back off.)

Bates was never part of any discussion of how to solve the problem. He never suggested sending security after Peterson. No action was ever taken.

McKay thought of the EMP; Sheppard thought of using the naqahdah generator. And it took Sheppard and McKay ganging up on Elizabeth to get her to let them use it.

Elizabeth was clearly out of her element, but did not seek advice from the right people. She was not the one qualified to be making these decisions and she failed to recognize it. She never admitted to any possibility that she may have been to severe with the quarantine where Sheppard was concerned or that she would have had to let him try to solve the problem, anyway.

Elizabeth later says that she is the one to decide what is a military situation. Sheppard says that some times he sees things differently. They never finish the conversation.

The thing is they were both right and wrong. Sheppard took the hit and continues to every time disobeying orders comes up.

Had the problem been addressed correctly, as a security issue, there would have been no question of insubordination. Hence, military leadership has its benefits.

From GW thread: http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....&postcount=393

As you noted, Weir shuts down gate travel and puts the city into a quarantine. That's a decision, and she's made it. I don't think we're meant to see the character as indecisive in her reaction to the information she's getting. A medical / science issue is her purview, although I concede there is a military role in effecting containment.

Containment is pretty much my issue here. The military works with a standard, established, long-standing chain of command. I'm not talking about Sheppard messing with Weir's command, not yet anyway. Just stick with Sheppard and the security teams for a minute. Within Sheppard's organization, he's got a procedure in case he is out of the loop. He has a capable 2IC, a 3IC, and teams that can do the job when there's a situation in which the military commander is unable to get in the mix.

In a containment scenario, if the military commander is outside command and control, he's outside it. And he was only outside of it physically. He had communication with his people, whom he should trust to do their jobs.

You don't breach containment because you disagree with someone and want to go about things another way.

Sheppard's nagging of Weir for permission to "play" grinded at me, but because I knew he was the lead character and had to get in the mix, I put up with it. It was necessary from a dramatic standpoint but a bad move for this character, who would have had clear, cold knowledge of what a containment breach can mean in a city stuck in the middle of an ocean.

Oh yeah ... and he could have directed military teams to do what he wanted without causing the very public drama of undermining the base commander and breaching containment.

Weir's way, Peterson was being tracked and could have been intercepted by trained personnel (military with stunners, if Sheppard insisted ... civilians with syringes that could knock out Peterson within seconds, take a pick) before he reached populated sections of the city.

Sheppard's way, Peterson went under P90 fire and (of course) transported to a populated area. We don't know how Peterson would have done without active transporters. IMO, it wasn't a fluke Peterson got away using a transporter. It was a direct result of Sheppard's action.

Can't argue with outcome. Sheppard's tact failed. What Weir would have done if given a second to breathe without his arguing with her over the com, we don't know. Might have been nice, though, if her military commander was helpful instead of contentious. Maybe together they would have done better.

As for Sheppard's solution, the save is a collaboration. Part of the problem is Sheppard *needed* to be out of containment to be part of the ep. I didn't like how he did it, nor do I really enjoy the fact that Sheppard's bosses and higher-ups too often have to worry what he'll do when he disagrees with them. In the beginning, it was established he disobeyed orders to run a rescue mission. Admirable. Then the "insubordination thing" took on a life of its own, and I don't think it serves the character.

On the flip side, Sheppard does let his core team pull the "insubordination" thing on him and 60% of the tme he takes it in stride, almost like it's a natural form of expression. When he doesn't like it, he yells-- or turns on his "freeze" look, and he's 100% effective in immeditely establishing he's in charge.

In eps where Sheppard's decision to disobey orders drives the drama, it would play better if he paid for his choices.

This ep should have had better resolution in the end.

[blue-skyz]

I just kept the part of the quote that referred to other people stopping Peterson. Sorry

Just stick with Sheppard and the security teams for a minute. Within Sheppard's organization, he's got a procedure in case he is out of the loop. He has a capable 2IC, a 3IC, and teams that can do the job when there's a situation in which the military commander is unable to get in the mix.

In a containment scenario, if the military commander is outside command and control, he's outside it. And he was only outside of it physically. He had communication with his people, whom he should trust to do their jobs.

Oh yeah ... and he could have directed military teams to do what he wanted without causing the very public drama of undermining the base commander and breaching containment.

Weir's way, Peterson was being tracked and could have been intercepted by trained personnel (military with stunners, if Sheppard insisted ... civilians with syringes that could knock out Peterson within seconds, take a pick) before he reached populated sections of the city.

I am confused.
I think we are working from different views of the situation when the quarantine is established.

I am going to have to watch it again, but here is my view.

The quarantine is global. The only people walking around are in those stupid suits. They are mostly medical personnel and they are all busy with McKay’s group or whatever. No one was available to bring Sheppard a suit or to stop Peterson.

Sheppard, like everyone else, stays where he is. Once Peterson becomes a threat and that to us is as soon as McKay says that Peterson knows almost about Ancient tech as he does, someone is going to have to go stop him. Peterson can apparently get anywhere he wants to go.

If someone is going to try to stop him, that person/s is going to have to be allowed to leave quarantine. Sheppard does not have teams that are outside the quarantine area. If someone is going to leave quarantine and take a chance of being infected, that’s a no brainer, it is going to be Sheppard.

If there were security people outside the quarantine, and my memory could be wrong, then I would agree with you: Sheppard didn’t need to be there.


Bates is in the control room when Peterson becomes a threat. It is Bates that should be in Elizabeth’s face insisting that someone be allowed out of quarantine and mobilized to stop him. Bates is never part of any discussion about Peterson, only Elizabeth and Grodin discuss it. That is my biggest problem with what happens in the episode. The only thing Bates does is release Sheppard. I have come to believe that part of the reason he does this is that he must have already tried to convince Elizabeth to send someone after Peterson.

[expendable_crewman]

I just kept the part of the quote that referred to other people stopping Peterson. Sorry

I am confused.
I think we are working from different views of the situation when the quarantine is established.

I am going to have to watch it again, but here is my view.

The quarantine is global. The only people walking around are in those stupid suits. They are mostly medical personnel and they are all busy with McKay’s group or whatever. No one was available to bring Sheppard a suit or to stop Peterson.

Sheppard, like everyone else, stays where he is. Once Peterson becomes a threat and that to us is as soon as McKay says that Peterson knows almost about Ancient tech as he does, someone is going to have to go stop him. Peterson can apparently get anywhere he wants to go.

If someone is going to try to stop him, that person/s is going to have to be allowed to leave quarantine. Sheppard does not have teams that are outside the quarantine area. If someone is going to leave quarantine and take a chance of being infected, that’s a no brainer, it is going to be Sheppard.

If there were security people outside the quarantine, and my memory could be wrong, then I would agree with you: Sheppard didn’t need to be there.


Bates is in the control room when Peterson becomes a threat. It is Bates that should be in Elizabeth’s face insisting that someone be allowed out of quarantine and mobilized to stop him. Bates is never part of any discussion about Peterson, only Elizabeth and Grodin discuss it. That is my biggest problem with what happens in the episode. The only thing Bates does is release Sheppard. I have come to believe that part of the reason he does this is that he must have already tried to convince Elizabeth to send someone after Peterson.

Definitely two views of the situation.

The quarantine is global but people in suits can move around. Maybe it's my training but I have a hard time imagining command and control with no access to protective equipment. The control room and the gate room below it always has security.

With that said, we're seeing different things, which is cool, btw. For example, you see Bates agreeing with Sheppard, and I don't ... I see security people who were able to get into suits.

Who gets the suits is decided by location when the alarm is sounded. So I never pictured this tiny bubble of cast and only Sheppard able to do a task, like stop a sick man from making others sick.

If you have people in quarantine and later decide you need them, you get them out of quarantine by bringing them a suit. If you can't bring them a containment suit, they have to stay in quarantine and someone else has to do their work.

That's the purpose of quarantine.

Peterson and Sheppard did the same thing, essentially. They broke containment, just for different reasons.

As for Bates, I saw Bates on Weir's side and getting bullied by Sheppard to unlock the door. No sergeant is going to get hammered on like that by a major, his commander, and not do what he's told ... unless his name is Sheppard, lol!

But Sheppard put Bates in a bad position with Weir, who's openly supported Bates against Sheppard in previous eps.

Anyway, if you do re-watch, look at the timeline. Sheppard has time to get to haz mat suits, suit up, chat with Teyla about making Weir look bad, and then intercept Peterson. The guy was not banging down the doors that led to populated areas. Not yet. Sheppard could have directed people to intercept Peterson and he could have worked with Weir to get that done instead of barking at her.

Later, we found out that as Peterson got near the juiced part of the city, the city would have powered up its auto containment protocol anyway.

So ... are we talking about the same thing ????