Sanctuary (114)

[DarkQuee1]

He definitely had some good points, it's more how he COMMUNICATED those points that people find objectionable. As I said before, McKay at his worst is never as bad as he was in Sanctuary... with the possible exception of him in 48 Hours, but he's grown a lot since then and I still find it out of character for him to behave that way.

Same goes for Shep.

The problem for me with McKay is that there are times when he comes across as an idiot savant, with the emphasis on the idiot. He's not stupid, so why can't he figure out when to zip his lip? In at least two earlier eps (the one with the Genii was one), he blabbed information about Atlantis and their technology and the like that anyone with half a brain would know you don't go around telling total strangers.

And in the first part of this ep, he was a guest on this world and his comments and attitude were absurd. This man has a damaged sense of self-perservation: he recognizes the danger in a gun, but not in trampling all over another people's beliefs and culture. He's lucky they were pacifists and not Aztec; he would have been skewered in the first five minutes.

And there's a limit to how much you can excuse it because he's an arrogant SOB. At some point, his colleagues have right to expect him to actually *learn* from his mistakes.

J.

[Hex.FTB.enabled]

And in the first part of this ep, he was a guest on this world and his comments and attitude were absurd. This man has a damaged sense of self-perservation: he recognizes the danger in a gun, but not in trampling all over another people's beliefs and culture.

Despite the depth they've given him on Atlantis, Mckay is still just a wee bit egocentric. Most people with that kind of self-absorption (especially the "geek" of the show) don't equate that same level of danger with trampling over another cultures's beliefs.

C'mon, weren't you rolling your eyes just a little at "Athar will take care of everything, Athar provides," etc.?

[FoolishPleasure]

C'mon, weren't you rolling your eyes just a little at "Athar will take care of everything, Athar provides," etc.?

*LOL* yep - Athar sure didn't want her people to LEARN anything either. Keep 'em in the uneducated dark ages. .easier to control.

As for McKay being more obnoxious than usual in this episode, yeah, I think so, but I think he was very frustrated with no one bothering to listen to his concerns. And, yes, he probably tramples cultural beliefs all the time. That is just Rodney.

[Ace]

You maybe should watch this episode 5 or 6 more times because you obviously have a comprehension problem. First, you practically flame an admitted first time poster, (thanks for that schmucko) then you proceed to blunder about in your response.

I had nothing but good intentions in coming to this board but if moronic responses like this is all I can expect I will stick to posting on other forums.

Ok first off...as you have stated you are a first time poster. Because of this, maybe you aren't aware that I was not insulting you. No where in my post did I insult you, instead I ask for clarification on many of your view points because I did not agree with them or see them in the episode.

A good idea would have been to respond and reinforce your arguments instead of coming right out and insulting me! But that's ok, as you said you are a first time poster. So I'll let it slide, I have sent you a Private Message as well. ;-)

HAHAAAAA!!! If you had any understanding of what Manifest Destiny was, then me and you could share a laugh here, but alas, you have no hope. Lets ask Sitting Bull, Red Cloud, Cochise, Big Foot and some other Indian Chiefs how honorable these "treaties" you speak of are. You make me laugh, but in an "at you" kind of way.

Once again, you did not need to insult me by saying I did not understand what Manifest Destiny was. But as a first time poster, I guess your reaction to a post that did not agree with you, was to fire back with insults. No Problem. I see your point about treaties America made with Native Americans, in which WE completely ignored later and forced them ever further west.

You bring up a good point, but one could also argue that every time we walk through the Stargate we are imposing our Manifest Destiny on others. Our very presence in Atlantis confirms this notion. We aren't even from the same galaxy, yet we are the ones that occupy Atlantis with the Athosians as our GUESTS.

What I WAS refering to was how McKay took their religious nature they openly displayed as if it were something to scoff at, I never said McKay actually acted like their god. You have shown you ineptitude when it comes to reading comprehension, so I can only assume that same problem haunts you when you watch programs on TV.

Once again I mentioned the insults, so we don't need to go there again. However I see what you wrote was very ambiguous and confused me and probably others in the way it was written.

McKay acting like their god was a joke was pretty disturbing

The way you wrote this sentence, it sounds like McKay is "acting" like a god. Instead what you meant to say was that McKay was unappreciative of the Proculans's religious beliefs, and that their religion was a joke. Very confusing.

If you watch the show and actually pay attention, you will see that on several occasions McKay was very offensive and like I originally stated, I would hope the "best of the best" would be able to interact with aliens they meet for the first time in a more sophisticated manner.

Indeed I do watch the show and pay attention, I've been watching Stargate for all 8 seasons, and consider myself a loyal fan. I agree McKay came off very offensive, however that is character McKay is ever since the SG-1 episode "48 hours". This is probably why Major Sheppard sent the rest of the team away because they “weren’t helping”.

Thanks for the warm welcome Ace.

I would have never made a post like this were it not for the insulting way in which you replied to me, so think about that before you start flaming back chum.

I'm sorry you feel that I insulted you; I have already apologized to you in a Private message. Though I never insulted you, I simply did not understand your view points on the episode and asked at several points for examples of your view points. Which you sort of did in this recent post....

I do not flame others, especially those that are new to this forum. This forum is for intellectual conversations about the episodes among fans, not for insulting others. Some of the best conversations I have had in this forum are with those that disagree and have different view points then my own.

We get to discuss the merits of each person's points/values and generally talk about Stargate in general. It can be very rewarding, so I'm sorry if you feel you were insulted. It was never my intention. Look forward to your reply

Ace

[Stargate]

i dont see how you insulted him

[SmartFox]

I do not flame others, especially those that are new to this forum. This forum is for intellectual conversations about the episodes among fans, not for insulting others. Some of the best conversations I have had in this forum are with those that disagree and have different view points then my own.
Ace

Thats the way i always think. Of course none of my family will have debates with me anymore about anything especially my sister. I think its because im very opinated and am very strong in voicing my opinions. Maybe ill put a disclaimer on my signature warning people not to get to offended by what i say.

[watcher652]

I liked Sanctuary. And this is why -

McKay: All I know is she's not who she's pretending to be.
Weir: And you know this because?
McKay: What, I'm not allowed to have intuition?
Weir: You? No.
McKay: Oh.

And

McKay to Sheppard: I'm sorry, I know I'm normally Mr. Sensitive, but you gotta believe me, that there is something about her... I know it's intangible, but I can feel it.

McKay is about truth. That’s why he’s an awful bluffer. He knew there was something not truthful about Chaya, but he couldn’t express it. And when he tried to alert the others of his suspicions, he was brushed off. McKay doesn’t have feelings, he has hard data. Only when he had the hard data to back up his feelings did anyone take him the least bit seriously.

McKay never said Chaya was evil. He just knew that there was something wrong about her story. And he was beside himself trying to convince the others that this is not a good thing.

When he made his declaration that Chaya was an Ancient, it was another leap in his intuition.

McKay: She’s an Ancient, Major.
Sheppard: She’s what?
McKay: I’m right aren’t I? The perfect health, the energy weapon, the fact that she has the Ancient gene. It’s the only logical explanation.

And

McKay: I just don’t understand the act. I mean, you must know we’d give just about anything to talk to you, to, to learn from you. What is it? What are you, checking us out?

McKay said this with such a pained look on his face.

And

Weir: He’s right?
McKay: I’m right?

Poor McKay. He’s in charge of trying to figure out all the Ancient stuff. Here’s an opportunity to talk to an Ancient, but she won’t, she can’t. He had an Ancient right there in Atlantis and couldn’t get one single bit of information out of her. That must have really disappointed and frustrated him.

It must have really hurt McKay to know he wasn’t going to be taken seriously because he has feelings. After all this time, no one was willing to take that leap of faith and trust him, they trusted this person they just met more.

I appreciated this look of McKay outside his box.

[Mil]

ShadowMaat I realize you want no further discussion but I wanted to respond so at least others could share ideas even if you do not want to.

You are allowed to believe anything you like. Personally, I think that romance/flirting has absolutely NO PLACE in ANY type of serious negotiations and while you maintain that it doesn't have to lead to sex, that's a level of subtlety that can be hard to define from person to person, nevermind across cultures or even SPECIES.

This has NOTHING to do with "sex outside of marriage". Puh-LEASE. I see it as being extremely disrespectful of the situation and of the people involved. I see it as stupid and arrogant and incredibly, OBVIOUSLY (in the context of the ep) hormonally driven.

Nothing you say will ever convince me otherwise and I have no desire to discuss it further.

I thought we were having a discussion not a statement of beliefs. Your original comment is rude to dismiss an opposing view as stupid without giving an rational argument. To me you have no intention of convincing others that your belief is correct without being willing to discuss the reasons. You could convince me your right others have changed my opinon on other topics.

I do agree that hormonally driven romances are dumb and if that was the only thing going on it was dumb.
“ I think that romance/flirting has absolutely NO PLACE in ANY type of serious negotiations“

That‘s your cultural view that may be a good idea inside our culture and a good idea after cultural understanding can be built with another culture. What if their culture thinks romance/flirting does have an important place in serious negotiations? Are you going to offend them be refusing to participate?

“...that's a level of subtlety that can be hard to define from person to person, nevermind across cultures or even SPECIES.“

I agree and that applies to all aspects of negotiation with a forgen culture or Species. You can be damned if you do you can be damned if you don’t. If you had argued that the Con’s of romance out weigh the Pro’s or had said that you thought romance was an unwise idea I would have understood but stupid indicates there is no Pro’s and that my argument was ignorant.

“I see it as being extremely disrespectful of the situation and of the people involved.“ That sounds similar to views that got many missionaries killed by natives because the missionaries refused to bend their moral views to be accommodating to local views.

[Mil]

I liked Sanctuary. And this is why -

McKay: All I know is she's not who she's pretending to be.
Weir: And you know this because?
McKay: What, I'm not allowed to have intuition?
Weir: You? No.
McKay: Oh.

And

McKay to Sheppard: I'm sorry, I know I'm normally Mr. Sensitive, but you gotta believe me, that there is something about her... I know it's intangible, but I can feel it.

McKay is about truth. That’s why he’s an awful bluffer. He knew there was something not truthful about Chaya, but he couldn’t express it. And when he tried to alert the others of his suspicions, he was brushed off. McKay doesn’t have feelings, he has hard data. Only when he had the hard data to back up his feelings did anyone take him the least bit seriously.

McKay never said Chaya was evil. He just knew that there was something wrong about her story. And he was beside himself trying to convince the others that this is not a good thing.

When he made his declaration that Chaya was an Ancient, it was another leap in his intuition.

McKay: She’s an Ancient, Major.
Sheppard: She’s what?
McKay: I’m right aren’t I? The perfect health, the energy weapon, the fact that she has the Ancient gene. It’s the only logical explanation.

And

McKay: I just don’t understand the act. I mean, you must know we’d give just about anything to talk to you, to, to learn from you. What is it? What are you, checking us out?

McKay said this with such a pained look on his face.

And

Weir: He’s right?
McKay: I’m right?

Poor McKay. He’s in charge of trying to figure out all the Ancient stuff. Here’s an opportunity to talk to an Ancient, but she won’t, she can’t. He had an Ancient right there in Atlantis and couldn’t get one single bit of information out of her. That must have really disappointed and frustrated him.

It must have really hurt McKay to know he wasn’t going to be taken seriously because he has feelings. After all this time, no one was willing to take that leap of faith and trust him, they trusted this person they just met more.

I appreciated this look of McKay outside his box.

I thought the only stupid thing about McKay is that the team lets him interact directly with the natives. Although annoying he is a very valuable asset to the team and you need a view point like his around when deciding what to do. Just keep him on communications back at HQ or in a jumper or somehow get him to keep his mouth closed and share his opinion only in private with the rest of the team.

[Buzz Lightyear]

You maybe should watch this episode 5 or 6 more times because you obviously have a comprehension problem. First, you practically flame an admitted first time poster, (thanks for that schmucko) then you proceed to blunder about in your response.

I had nothing but good intentions in coming to this board but if moronic responses like this is all I can expect I will stick to posting on other forums.

Thanks for the warm welcome Ace.

I would have never made a post like this were it not for the insulting way in which you replied to me, so think about that before you start flaming back chum.

I think you owe Ace an apology. I read the original response and it was in no way offensive or insulting to you. Can't say the same for your subsequent response.

It was a legitimate misread on Ace's part of your statement about McKay treating their culture's god like a joke. Using the word "acting" in the context you did is what created the confusion.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I thought the only stupid thing about McKay is that the team lets him interact directly with the natives. Although annoying he is a very valuable asset to the team and you need a view point like his around when deciding what to do. Just keep him on communications back at HQ or in a jumper or somehow get him to keep his mouth closed and share his opinion only in private with the rest of the team.

Exactly. McKay will never be a diplomat. And he obviously has trouble even keeping secrets; he's quite the blabber mouth.

Despite his character's development over the course of the season, the phrase "a leopard can't change his spots" does still come to mind.

[iLemon]

Just rewatched this ep, and I hate the ancients even more!

[aaobuttons]

Just rewatched this ep, and I hate the ancients even more!

It's quite interesting isn't it that after seasons upon seasons of hearing how great the Ancients are, that every time we see/interact with them they seem more selfish and petty than even we are!

[iLemon]

Exactly, I thought they were great at first. But this is getting annoying. They have no compassion!!

[SeaBee]

Considering how enlightened and perfect the Ancients are supposed to be, it's surprising how many have become rogue.

A good ep, if a little predictable.