The Defiant One (112)

[Bobthespirit]

Pretty so-so episode. You took one look at those two young guys and it was obvious they were the designated redshirts. I think the sequence might have been better if it were a little more tactical and conversational, like The Eye was. I like how Sheppard told the wraithe that their side lost the war, but that was the end of the mind games and the rest was just Sheppard trying harder and harder to blow the thing up but finding that it just regenerates too much.

I also want to know exactly how many wraithe there were at the time of the Atlantian war. 60 hive ships versus a thriving civilization of presumably millions, whose technology 10,000 years ago seems to usually outclass the wraiths? Technology or not that seems like a bit of a mismatch.

[keshou]

I haven't read any of this thread and I'm sure it's all been said.

Nice episode, following a really great episode last week. I'm really loving what they're doing with McKay. And the whole Shep/McKay dynamic is starting to become a highlight of the show.

And Nyan/Gall, whatever your name is. Bless you, I guess everyone saw that coming a mile away but it was still very sad. Mckay's face said it all.

The Wraith are still cheesy but this guy was better than most. Although not as good as Steve, of course. Certainly was hard to take down. I like the idea that they get stronger as they feed and I suspect there's going to be more revealed down the road. At least I hope so. These guys were wiping out the Ancients - there HAS to be more. It was way too creepy that he'd been there for thousands of years feeding off the supply ship and his fellow wraiths. Eww.

Didn't see much of Weir, Ford or Teyla this week and didn't actually miss them. It was redshirt week on Atlantis I guess.

I kept thinking the fireflies were going to be more hostile. Obviously I was remembering their previous appearance in Prodigy. Very funny when Shep threw the power bar and they went after it like a dog on a bone.

Best line of the episode - appropriately - was McKay's. "What are you, Captain Kirk?"

[Gabe]

Sorry Atlantis fans, but this was an unforgivablely bad episode. Wake up, the coffee's done. Have a cup.

I wanted to like it because I adore Peter D., but he dropped the ball writing-wise and set a roomful of people--the gang I watched it with--into Mystery Science Theater 3000 mode.

We gave it a chance and tried to take it seriously, but the first volley of our inserted dialogue came during Weir's scene as she cautions the boys about exploring the old abandoned ship. "Hey--didn't any of you bozos see ALIEN?????"

We stopped snorking and gave it another chance until the 4 guys split up and the discussion was: "Which of the two guest star science geeks will die in the next scene?"

"Both of them," I said. "The wraith will kill one right away and take the other to his lair to snack on later. He'll be in bad shape so McKay will have to look after him."

Danged if it didn't happen just like that. We were so sorry it did.

Our watching party's silence quickly broke down, and we all started cat-calls, hooting, and occasionally screaming in rage at characters for being too stupid to breathe. My reply to the "What would Jack O'Neill do?" query was "He'd shoot Sheppard as a liability to the whole project, then kill the alien and get his people OUT of there."

But no such luck.

Shep blunders on, shooting the Big Bad. (Yo, dude! Ever hear of head shots?)

(Basic strategy hint--wait until the enemy is clear from valuable stuff, THEN shoot him!)

I--who have NO military training, no combat abilities whatever--even *I* know better than to shoot an enemy while he's so close to the freakin puddle-jumper that stray bullets will certainly hit the fragile innards, preventing me from leaving the planet.

But Shep did exactly that.

What he did NOT do as follow-through had us all groaning.

While the wraith was down did Shep rush up--a short jaunt while he's still unwounded--and put a few bullets in the critter's head??? I don't care how fast these things recover from wounds, if his brain is turned to mush by a few P-90 rounds bouncing inside his skull the chances are that he's dead, Jim.

But our hero didn't do this sensible action.

Noooooo-ooooo! He lets it recover to get UP again. For Round Two.

Reality check: When your people are in danger and being killed by a butt-ugly alien elf vampire, your job is to *not* play fair, but kill the dang thing and leave.

We hoped it would not get worse, but it did.

Shep made the SAME FREAKIN' mistake a SECOND time. When the alien grenade stuns the wraith, Shep had several MINUTES to get over there and cut his head off with his K-Bar if necessary.

And this didn't happen, either. We were screaming at him, at the writer, at a production staff that made characters we really want to like into COMPLETE MORONS.

As for the glowy bug things--soon as we saw them, we figured "They're going to save everyone at some crucial moment down the line."

Danged if that didn't happen, too. *groan*

Oh, yeah, sidebar to the B-storyline-- as soon as McKay put the gun in the other geek's hand I knew there would be a suicide before the ep. was over. Not kidding here. I'd not read one word about this show, not read a single spoiler. I just *knew.*

Why is that? 'Cause it's a lousy cliché from the get-go. It would have been more interesting if the character had chosen to live, but the writer took the easy way out. To quote another scriptwriter, "Convenience is the death of any script." (JMS of B-5)

More groaning came from our unhappy watch party when, in the middle of a stand-off with the e-vul space elf, Shep has a snack. You'd think after all that combat and getting shot and bleeding and lying around in the sand and sun for hours on end that he'd want a nice drink of water but nope--he treats himself to a power bar!

He shares it with glowy bug. Awwww, ain't that cute. (Wait--didn't Princess Leia do that sharing thing with an Ewok and made friends, then they helped save the galaxy??)

Glowy space bugs....that look too much like the other ones from that SG-1 episode, Prodigy. By then I wanted a whole horde of them to eat the idiot to the bone like teeny little glowy piranhas. It would have put the audience out of its misery. (By then some of us were begging for sporks so we could gouge our eyes out.)

But nope--Shep does his shtick with the snack bar and the glowy things do their predictable bit of (too-easily) distracting the e-vul alien elf until he's blown up by someone other than the hero himself.

All right, once and for all, the ONLY guy who can save the day with a candy bar is McGyver. The *only* guy----not that idiot Sheppard!

I'm sure I've offended many who are content to go giddy over all the pretty (and except for McKay & the Scottish doc, utterly brainless) characters. (Our discussions in my group are along the lines of "Dear gawd--WHAT will Shep DO when he runs out of hair gel? *gasp*)

I've wanted to like this show, and I've seen each episode, and thus far the series just doesn't live up to its promise. I am angry that it could be better, yet it is not. I would regulate it to the level of a Saturday morning kid show except the kids would be insulted by this product. I wish to heaven that the money wasted in the production of this loser episode alone was in my bank account, so I could retire and put it to better use than the producers of "Atlanta-prise."

As it is, I am p.o.'d that there goes an hour of my life I will never get back again.

Honestly, if it didn't have "Stargate" in the title I would have given up watching it after the pilot. As it is, I've yet to see an episode I'd be willing to give a second viewing. Most of them--like this week's offering--offend my intelligence. My group has referred to it as "Stargate-Lite-- half the plot and none of the character."

Don't bother to write and tell me how wrong I am. All messages will be deleted, unread.

Don't dismiss me as a mere troll. I know what I'm talking about, having made my living for the last 15 years as a print-published writer. I only came to vent so I could sleep tonight. I won't be back to this thread. This episode has wasted enough of my time.

Now I'm going to watch a well-done Stargate SG-1 episode that has characters behaving and reacting as the intelligent people I've come to love, cheer for, and respect.

[GhostPoet]

Unlike the overly long-winded negative spew posted above..I thought this episode was VERY enjoyable. Kept my attention the entire time.

[Avreana]

Sorry Atlantis fans, but this was an unforgivablely bad episode. Wake up, the coffee's done. Have a cup.... *snipped very long diatribe*

Anyway, I think that this episode is one of my favourite of the season. It is definitely the one I have re-watched the most so far. I just loved the character interactions. Plus the excellent mix of action/drama/humor. And it doesn't hurt that it is based around Sheppard and Mckay So all in all, a 5 star episode.

[Hyperspace]

i'm a newbie here
i remember the wraith say "I’ve fed upon countless thousands of humans, Atlanteans, even a part of my own crew."
So they feed on other life form or something?

Yes the Wraith need to feed on the life-force of apparently any living organism that their talons are compatible of grasping. Welcome to the board!

As for this episode, I thought it was pretty good, of course I immediately thought, 'Didn't you guys see ALIEN'??? I think that Stargate has a good dose of light humor, both SG-1 and Atlantis, but in recent eps the 'dumbitis' has become a little too much. Having the trio not notice that the one redshirt was not with them for a while, and then leaving them there was pretty dumb, it my opinion. Plus there were the mistakes when Sheppard tried to get back to the jumper.

That said--I still enjoyed this ep, it was fun and entertaining and offered some character development plus much-needed beefing-up of the Wraith threat (to a degree). I am a huge fan of Action Sheppard since 'The Eye' and was glad to see his and McKay's character development continued.

Some questions:

1) What happened to the Ancient weapons platform? Will they revisit it?
2) What is the body count of Atlantis vs. the number total still alive?

I look forward to the next ep! So far, good variety of episodes in a strong Atlantis first season. But we scifi fans have been through a lot of series, and are getting a bit more sophisticated--not all the old tricks will work! Let's see if Atlantis can keep doing it well.

[frawgz]

Does anyone know what kind of sunglasses Sheppard was wearing in this episode?

[Hyperspace]

LOL I liked his sunglasses!

[kiyuchan]

I know what I'm talking about, having made my living for the last 15 years as a print-published writer.

Now I'm going to watch a well-done Stargate SG-1 episode that has characters behaving and reacting as the intelligent people I've come to love, cheer for, and respect.

Okay, I'm responding to this even though you "won't be coming back"...
Just because you're print-published doesn't mean that your opinion is suddenly more valuable than the rest of us non-published or non-writers. Personally, I enjoyed the episode, and just because you have superior skills in logical deductions, doesn't mean 99% of the world does.

No, I didn't doubt that McKay(who IS pretty, IMO) and Shep would make it out alive, but I had actually believed that Gaul would have lived

Spoiler:

as they hadn't been in the habit of killing off secondary characters yet

. It also had a the effect of making me sad...a real accomplishment for a throw-off character.

Now, I'm all for you having an opinion and not liking it...but to justify that opinion by saying because of your profession, is an insult to the rest of us--implying that our opinion is somehow less informed.

Also, Season One, here! For the first season of a show, the show has been REMARKABLY good. Does anyone remember SG-1's first season *coughBrocaDividecough*...or even Star Trek:TNG's. Both absolutely wonderful shows, but they DID get off to a rocky start. The first season is where the show figures out its direction and, while I love it to death, I know Atlantis is still doing that...

Spoiler:

hence the change in casting/casting precedence next season... ;_; I'll miss you, RSF, even though your character has had NO development

.

That said, and I might have said it earlier, I ADORE this episode...it's easily in my top three faves of the season(all 19 eps I've seen). I thought the interaction was great between Shep and McKay, and McKay and Gaul. I liked that they didn't make all the right choices--they're still learning and that makes them more real to me than if they always did all the right things.

I liked Gaul's acknowlegement of Rodney's development as a character...too often those things go ignored and it was nice for someone to say something. And I liked that Shep was fighting the Wraith with a KNIFE. Also, DH has the most wonderfully expressive face I've seen on an actor in a long time. You can see the shock/guilt/sadness when Gaul offs himself and then later when he tells Shep about it. Great stuff.

[ShadowMaat]

Okay, I'm responding to this even though you "won't be coming back"...
Just because you're print-published doesn't mean that your opinion is suddenly more valuable than the rest of us non-published or non-writers. Personally, I enjoyed the episode, and just because you have superior skills in logical deductions, doesn't mean 99% of the world does.

Is that what was in that long, pedantic diatribe? I only got far enough in to figure out he didn't like the ep and then I stopped reading. Sorry, but I've never cared for people like Kavanagh.

I thought the ep was so-so, myself. I liked it a bit better on the second viewing, but I still thought there was an over-all weakness to it. However, McKay's struggle and the plight of Gall were wonderful things to watch and THAT is mostly why I bothered with this second viewing.

Of course, that's just MY opinion and I don't have enough of an ego to say that my opinion is more valid than anyone else's.

Also, if Gabe was talking about going off to watch Prometheus Unbound and considering THAT to be a fantastic ep well worthy of it's fantastic characters... I think I'll have to have a fit of the giggles. Sorry, but HA! Defiant One may not be the best ep, ever, but I'd pick it over PU any day.

Of course, again, that's just my poor, uninformed, insignificant little opinion.

[kiyuchan]

Also, if Gabe was talking about going off to watch Prometheus Unbound and considering THAT to be a fantastic ep well worthy of it's fantastic characters... I think I'll have to have a fit of the giggles. Sorry, but HA! Defiant One may not be the best ep, ever, but I'd pick it over PU any day.

Haha.

I enjoyed "PU", myself. But I sometimes like silly things. And I DO understand why other people didn't like it. But, yeah. It's still just my opinion, and that's fine. I seem to be in the minority on that one. Oh, well.

Defiant One WAS still a much better ep, but then I've been enjoying Atlantis more than SG-1 for most of the season. I think the next few eps of SG-1 should pick up my opinion a bit, though. *crosses fingers*

[Merlin7]

I love this ep. Course..I adore Shep Whumping so that just made it right there for me.

But starting with the snark in the PJ in the beginning. The McShep stuff is alway fabulous. JF and DH play off each other so beautifully. And I love watching Shep's face. JF often times doesn't have dialogue in scenes/moments but everything Shep is feeling is there to be seen. IT's wonderful.

Shep and Rodney are two little kids. Mama Weir shook her head at her boys. Heeee

The thing I love about this show is that NO ONE is perfect. NO ONE. They all make mistakes and have to live with them. Look at Shep. He woke the Wraith. Didn't mean too, had no clue it would happen but HE has to live with that. But watching him do so is wonderful. Watching all of them learn from their mistakes and go on and make more. That's what's so great about this show.

I think Shep was right about the Wraith. It wasn't just his having fed recently that made him so unbeatable. Yikes. Made them scarier.

He was a smart Wraith too. He figured out how to find the ship even cloaked. Figured out the remote. Figured out how to hot wire the shield into place with none of the GENIUS scientists from Atlantis did. And you KNOW they have studied the PJ's. He would have gotten that signal out if Shep hadn't gone after him.

I love the TEAM work feeling involved. Rodney wanted to help Shep. I like his fear. Is Shep can't defeat the Wraith...they're screwed. And Shep couldn't...so EEEEK!

But that's where the TEAM feeling comes in. I like that Shep isn't the SAVE THE DAY Hero. Love that. He kept the Wraith distracted. Then Rodney showed up and helped for a few more minutes. Then the calvary showed up. THAT's WHAT it's all about.

Loved the exchanges between Shep and the Wraith. And Shep's disbelief when it got back up after being blown up the first time. LOL

Loved the ending too. You could see how both Shep and Rodney felt about Gaul dying. Then Shep did the right thing. They had a long trip home. They couldn't do anything about what happened to Gaul in that moment and both of them were dead on their feet, especially Shep. So he moved past it for now and they headed home. Once home they could deal with the aftermath.

Great ep.

[impulsivelad]

Yeah, I noticed all the mistakes with how Sheppard handled the Wraith too. But other than that I liked it a lot. All the Star Trek jokes really made me smile and Shep in his Top Gun glasses was just unbearably cool. It also didn't hurt that it featured the two best characters on the show and one particularly cool Wraith. I would’ve like to have seen some Alien or Predator puns, cause they would’ve been more appropriate to the episode. I think the good bits out weigh the bad ones.

[Sue_Jackson]

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Hey....I finally know what happened to Nyan (Scientist - "New Ground"/S3/SG1)! They changed his name to Brendan Gaul, and sent him to Atlantis. I'm telling you it was him.

I liked this episode a lot. I think this my favorite SGA episode so far. I like the interaction with Sheppard, McKay, and they other scientists (Gaul & Abrams). The two geeky scientist (I mean, Daniel was never THIS geeky) were really funny. And, McKay was annoying as usual, but I think I'm getting use to it. I especially love how Sheppard and McKay interact with each other. I liked how they played off each other. Sheppard was hot as always. He is really good at what he does. I like how this episode shows off his survival skills. I thought it was cute with Sheppard and those lightning bugs, and how they kept coming back for his energy bar. Oh...and the Wraith was cool. Mean and nasty, but cool.

But, those poor scientists (Gaul and Abrams). It was painful, and heartbreaking to watch Gaul dying. That scene really brought tears to my eyes. Then, cried when Gaul shot himself. It was so sad.

This was an excellent episode with an awesome performance by Joe Flanigan, Richard Cox, and David Hewlet.

[Vapor]

Ah, this is much better. For some reason, I was really in a hurry to get past the Storm/Eye 2-parter thing and move on to new stories. I don't know what it was about it, but I just was ready to get on with it. And "The Defiant One" turned out to be a pretty good first ep out.

So now it's established that we have this Ancient defense sattelite thingy, but I guess it's not operational or something?? I dunno, but it's an interesting idea that I'm sure I'll be seeing explored more in later episodes.

Somehow, this ep plays much better with me on the second viewing. Once I knew what was going to happen to the characters, I found myself paying a lot more attention to everything being said between them and what their feelings and thougts were before it really starts to hit the fan.

The best part of the ep for me had little to do with the Wraith or the ships or anything- it was the interplay between McKay and Gall (sp???), who I remember from that one SG-1 ep, "New Ground"... I think. Anyway, this pretty much made the ep worth it for me.

FINALLY someone aknowledges on-screen that McKay has grown as a character since his first days in Atlantis. Instead of thinking just of himself, or... something else, he spends half the time itching to run out and help Sheppard fight the Wraith. At least now those that complain about lack of character development have slightly less to complain about.

And speaking of that Wraith, he's probably the coolest-looking one I've seen so far. And he bares a striking resemblance to the one they had imprisoned in Atlantis, Steve. I wonder if they got the same actor to play this one too- that would be awesome. (*looks around to check*)

There were a few stray moments that felt slightly off or deserved some kind of indifferent mention, so I'll just stick them all in this paragraph. First the scene with Ford. I'm sorry, but he looked like a cartoon during his brief conversation with Weir. He just did. Second, the Wraith grenade-thingy. I think it would've been more appropriate for it to have released some kind of explosion of energy, rather than just blow up like a normal bomb. A stun grenade would've felt more appropriate. Third, that god-awful make-up used for Gall. I mean, I get that they're on a budget and all, but... wow. And fourth, the sound effect used when the Puddlejumper fired at the Wraith and it blew up. I dunno what the deal is, but they need to add some extra oomph to those punctuating moments. We had the same problem last week with the impact-sounds for the fight with Teyla and Sora. Sucked me right out of it.

The most shocking scene, which I did not see coming at all, was of course the scene in which Gall takes his own life. That just completely came out of nowhere. I expected that he would just talk McKay into leaving without him and then, when they returned, he'd already be dead... like, naturally. This way is much more effective, as it forces David Hewlett to react as McKay to something that he's surely never witnessed before. I'd like to see something of him dealing with this situation later on, but... I ain't holdin' my breath.

So, in closing, I think this ep was good. Not great. But good. I give it a B-.