Poisoning the Well (107)

[Major Fischer]

<nods> Just because Pegasus doesn't fall under the protection of the Geneva Convention doesn't mean Weir should ignore the principles and values of its civilizing influence. The GC has been called "the cornerstone of modern humanitarian law;" to ignore it is to ignore one's own humanity, and do we really want to be losing our humanity just because we're in a different galaxy? Isn't that the slippery slope the Nazis went down with their sterilisations, killing off the old, infirm, ethnic cleansing, medical experimentation on prisoners, etc.

The fact that there are so many people on the boards who think Weir is somehow weak or stupid for even bringing up the subject disturbs me no end. When did the Geneva Convention become a controversal thing? Hammond and O'Neill make those same arguments about Teal'c in The Enemy Within in SG1. Maybe with a slightly different take, but at that point they are indeed the same arguments.

[TheHomegaMan]

The fact that there are so many people on the boards who think Weir is somehow weak or stupid for even bringing up the subject disturbs me no end. When did the Geneva Convention become a controversal thing? Hammond and O'Neill make those same arguments about Teal'c in The Enemy Within in SG1. Maybe with a slightly different take, but at that point they are indeed the same arguments.

I'll take this one. There is a major difference between Teal'c and Steve. Teal'c is perfectly capable of surviving and functioning, as we saw. Steve, on the other hand, depended solely on humans for sustenance, which we were rightly unwilling to provide. Since Steve's death was assured through his unwillingness to consume other life, we decided to give his death a purpose. Yes, the Genva Convention bans such practices.

However, the Geneva Convention was entered into between many nations of a single species on a single planet. Somehow, it seems obsolete in light of the "realities" of the Pegasus galaxy. The Wraith live to feed upon intelligent life, which they view as cattle. The GC was entered into more or less among equals. The main deal with the Geneva Convention was the so many agreed to it. Sure, we could have extended it to Steve. Then when the Wraith arrived there would be an untested drug and a bunch of people on the high moral ground as their society was destroyed. Long and short of it, the GC was not meant to stand as a be-all end-all of prisoner treatment, especially among different species on different planets in a different galaxy. Weir is learning to go beyond the simple black and white mode of thinking and learning to adapt to a completely unique situation.

[Major Fischer]

There is a fact that seems to be ignored though. Weir mentions the Geneva Convention. She doesn't say they can't do it because of the Geneva Convention. She doesn't extend those protections to Steve. She mentions it. That's it. And within minutes of mentioning it gives permission to do what they need to do to survive in the Pegesus Galaxy.

In The Enemy Within, Colonel Kennedy isn't talking so much about running tests on Teal'c, as running tests on Junior. Junior wasn't capable of surviving without living off a host body. Sam and Daniel later in the season also have a discussion about the ethics of taking prim'tah to experiment on. I see a double standard in fan reaction.

I would be more disturbed if a representative of my civilization went off to an unexplored land and ignored the conventions of my society without even a second thought. That would show, to me, a lack of character.

[vfxsoup]

Yep, Library was CGI...

Mark Breakspear
Visual Effects Supervisor
Atlantis

[TheHomegaMan]

There is a fact that seems to be ignored though. Weir mentions the Geneva Convention. She doesn't say they can't do it because of the Geneva Convention. She doesn't extend those protections to Steve. She mentions it. That's it. And within minutes of mentioning it gives permission to do what they need to do to survive in the Pegesus Galaxy.

In The Enemy Within, Colonel Kennedy isn't talking so much about running tests on Teal'c, as running tests on Junior. Junior wasn't capable of surviving without living off a host body. Sam and Daniel later in the season also have a discussion about the ethics of taking prim'tah to experiment on. I see a double standard in fan reaction.

I would be more disturbed if a representative of my civilization went off to an unexplored land and ignored the conventions of my society without even a second thought. That would show, to me, a lack of character.

OK, I think I have a sense of where you're coming from now. At first, taking Teal'c's prim'tah was a problem- he needed it to survive. Now that he's on tretonin, I say we grab a prim'tah or few to do some tests. That being said, this is after years of SG-1. Atlantis may find some dead Wraith to experiment on. It's too early to tell.

Weir is giving mention to the GC. This is good, yes, but she can't expect it to rule her every action. She's given it some thought, and decided that is a situational concern to be dealt with accordingly.

[Major Fischer]

Weir is giving mention to the GC. This is good, yes, but she can't expect it to rule her every action. She's given it some thought, and decided that is a situational concern to be dealt with accordingly.

That's exactly where I was coming from. it just disturbs me that a number of people have implied in other threads that she's a weak leader because she thought about the implications of the GC. I think that may well be less to do with her actions now than the general Weir bashing that some people seem to be very intent on.

The character is far from perfect, and far from perfectly written yet (McKay is the only one I'd say is perfectly written so far), but I really do take issue with the implication on some people's part, that the mention of the Geneva Convention is some sign of her lack of intelligence or understanding of their situation.

[greytop]

Protein? Could it be similiar to one in Sam's blood. Too bad we cain't sent the sample of it back to SGC to find out. They would probably find out in a jiffy. If it was it would be .

[prion]

Contacts. You can buy these things anywhere. No joke. I've seen ads. And those are NOT the wildest contacts you can get either.

Oh, and hey, here's a good URL with loads of pretty pictures of whacko contacts. You, too, can have Wraith eyes!

http://teethworld.com/display-depart...sh_makeup.html

[ShadowMaat]

Contacts. You can buy these things anywhere. No joke. I've seen ads. And those are NOT the wildest contacts you can get either.

Yes, but the FX lenses generally available or used on shows usually don't stay so well aligned.

Look at that Evil Dude from the Enterprise finale. His pupils were slitted, straight up and down... but in some scenes, his pupils were slanted- or ONE would be slanted and the other would be fine. Point is, they were a little off. But in all the close-ups I can remember of Steve's eyes, his pupils stayed straight up and down and remained aligned that way whenever I noticed them. Since the contact lenses I'm familiar with don't do that, I wondered if they were, in fact, lenses or if the effect was accomplished by some other means. I've been told you can get lenses specially "weighted" so that they stay aligned properly, but I've only ever heard it was possible, I don't think I've ever actually seen any.

[Hohenzollern]

I thought the uniforms of the ubiquitous guards in episode 107, looked to be the same as the ones worn or <will> be worn in episode 108.

At least the same service caps. I am aware of the need to keep production costs down, but I would think the viewers might enjoy more variety or differing costume designs.

When seeing the teasers for 108, I thought it might be a continuation of 107, or be the same culture. This is not the case, obviously.

However...as the Genii <sp?> in 108 were part of a Federation of worlds, perhaps we can say the culture in 107 were part of that...and the uniform designs carried down through the ages. Unlikely; but could work.

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1...s/107_10.shtml

[zats]

I really liked this episode. It was sad, yes, but powerful. Beckett was awesome (and not just because he sounds like Billy Boyd!); it definitely brought a new dimension to his character. It made him more human instead of the "You don't understand, I break things like this!" doctor from Rising.

My main bone to pick with this episode was that I spent most of it wanting to smack Chancellor Druhin upside the head with a two-by-four...but then I guess that was intentional on the part of the writers. If so, they did a fantastic job.

All in all, a good ep. Not quite of the "happy moments" type, but good nonetheless.

Still doesn't beat Jack bicycling through the SGC, though.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

[QUOTE=Hohenzollern]I thought the uniforms of the ubiquitous guards in episode 107, looked to be the same as the ones worn or <will> be worn in episode 108.

<snip>

However...as the Genii <sp?> in 108 were part of a Federation of worlds, perhaps we can say the culture in 107 were part of that...and the uniform designs carried down through the ages. Unlikely; but could work.
QUOTE]

<nods> I'm hoping that this and other shared similarities among the different cultures in Pegasus will be explained as the common knowledge of their roots- seeded by the Ancients - and of their common enemy - the Wraith - as well as their casual use of the Stargate system for trade. How many Russians wear American designer jeans made in Mexico?

I really, really do like how the Pegasus system is set up; it's such a different mentality from the submissive, largely ignorant, enslaved masses of humanity scattered throughout the Milky Way series,... erm, galaxy.

[Cydonia]

...I've been told you can get lenses specially "weighted" so that they stay aligned properly, but I've only ever heard it was possible, I don't think I've ever actually seen any.

(slightly off topic)

Yes, weighted contacts do exist. I used to wear them (called toric lenses) due to severe astigmatism where the contact has to sit a certain way on the eye to properly correct the vision. I'm sure they make them non-prescription too.

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic...

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Bringing this over from the now locked Poisoning the Well thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAncientOne
it seems to me that(mass producing and distributing the drug with the intent of wiping out the Wraith)would be justified since they require human sacrifice to live and the alternative to execution would be starvation. Whichever is less painful would be appropriate as such. [/QUOTE]


Someone else(sorry, I forget) replied:
[QUOTE]Well people eat cows, and deer and all sorts of creatures. Most view it as ok because they are "lesser" than us and eating is part of nature. I don't see how the Wraith are different, we even farm and control our food like the Wraith. I can see how Atlantis doesn't want to be eaten and their plight seems justified due to that.

<shakes head> Not like the Wraith, not the "advanced" farm societites of our planet.


Having been a livestock farmer and having seen first hand, farm factories, I have to say one positive thing about how the Wraith proceed: They allow their "livestock" to lead relatively free lives - to be free-ranging, if you will(I know, ewww!)

But seriously, if a Wraith were to witness our farm factory operations up close, they'd probably have as much respect for us as we do for pigs.(Note: Pigs are essentially a clean animal that just happens to be able to eat anything, including carrion, but our perception of pigs, brought about largely by human abuse, is that pigs are stupid, dirty and violent creatures.)

[JediTrilobite]

I enjoyed this episode, although it seemed like they were grasping for video. There were a lot of scenes with music and people doing things. Don't get me wrong, I liked it, but it was very different.