Rodney McKay/Elizabeth Weir Discussion/Ship/Appreciation

[Purpleyin]

Well, I'm pretty sure downloading TV episodes here in the US is illegal, but I have no idea if copying a VHS or DVD legitimate episode (bought, not downloaded) and sending it to a buddy is. Copying and selling it certainly is. I'm not sure if Hans copied a legimate DVD in the UK and mailed it to me in the US where it isn't available yet if that would also be illegal. And I'm pretty confident that playing an Atlantis ep, even a legitimate one, to a large audience is also illegal.

Any lawyers lurking here?

My personal attitude toward all of this is how I deal with anime fansubbing. See, anime is first released in Japan and it takes forever to get to the US. Often during this time some fans in Japan will get together and copy the episodes, create English subtitles, and distribute them for free via the internet, etc. Surprisingly, anime companies have been very lenient toward this. The idea is that as soon as the series becomes available for sale in the US you should get rid of the fansub and buy a copy. So that's sort of how I treat Atlantis.

Hmm.
So in the US - downloads are illegal but taping off tv isn't and presumably lending tapes or even the bought DVD's to a friend is legal, but is copying a DVD to lend to a friend? I'm pretty sure even backing up a bought DVD in Uk is illegal, something about fair use rights not being same here - something that hasn't to my knowledge gone to court and so has no precedent but so far you can't even make legitimate mp3's for cd's you own.

Personally I wish they'd sell downloads of tv shows. Downloads for me are so much more convenient and why should the UK have to wait to see episodes, I've never understood the reasoning for bringing film or TV out months before in US/Canada. I mean with downloads I've be willing to pay a subscription to a virtual channel, like scifi.com, and then be able to download X episodes a month from them. I'd probably even buy the DVD's anyway if the show is good enough (like SGA ) since downloads would be lesser quality and lacking special features. They've already done this for old The Bill episodes inthe Uk but waiting for it to catch on more generally. If they have legal MP3 download systems then film/tv legal downloads seems the next step - just waiting for the industry to catch onto the idea.

[Purpleyin]

Anyone else notice the abundance of future children stories that are McKay/Weir?

First there was the Solar Flare Saga, then there was What if they hadn't come and now McRaider has started one. I'm sure I've read more too and just not remembered names. Is future kids fic just something everyone is tempted to write, much like doing a Mary Sue?

Of course there's at least one more on the way, ey MA and Em.

But are there certain scenarios people are tempted to write? Is it okay to give in and write them, or should they be avoided at all costs? I guess this raises the point of whether a gifted writer can overcome such cliches.

I'd also like to ask, do you all give feedback for fanfiction? I've noticed not many stories get much feedback on ff.net and especially on wraithbait (where authors can tell how many views they've had). I make a point of reviewing stories I read most of the time but somehow it seems there's always a large percentage on readers for any story who don't review - why is that? Too busy, didn't like it, had nothing to add? Do you as a reader feel you ought to give feedback or is it something unecessary?

Well there's probably enough there for discussion, talk to everyone later.

[ohshocking]

I'd also like to ask, do you all give feedback for fanfiction? I've noticed not many stories get much feedback on ff.net and especially on wraithbait (where authors can tell how many views they've had). I make a point of reviewing stories I read most of the time but somehow it seems there's always a large percentage on readers for any story who don't review - why is that? Too busy, didn't like it, had nothing to add? Do you as a reader feel you ought to give feedback or is it something unecessary?

Well there's probably enough there for discussion, talk to everyone later.

I give feedback when I have the time, for both fanfiction and vids. I feel we, as readers, should because it takes a lot of effort to create them, and I/we enjoy them, so I feel the author would like to know that. I try to give constructive criticism, if it applies, or even if it's just me bounding around with glee at how fantastic it was, I try to give some feedback. I think some excellent stories on ff.net that have very few reviews, possibly because I see a lot of people avoiding ff.net, because you can see some rather bad stories on there. It does take a lot to troll through the mass to find the brilliant ones. If I really didn't like it, then I don't leave a review. Because if I'm finding it hard to find positive things about it, then I don't think the author would benefit from my feedback, and I don't want to make people feel bad, so unless I can give some constructive criticism balanced with what I loved about it, then I think it's best that I don't give feedback.

[aaobuttons]

Ugh! All this illegal/legal stuff is so confusing. I like the idea of being able to buy a download of an episode from the company. Especially recent episodes. Here in Kansas during the spring, we have thunderstorms and tornadoes all over the place and my TV shows get interupted by news updates all the time. And this is usually during sweeps! I remember 1 show called Vampires the Masquerade, it was the series finale, and the last 20 min I never got to see (until last year when the box set came out) because our power went out due to a thunderstorm. I would have paid $50 to see those last 20 min!!

And you're right, if it was a good show like Atlantis, I'd buy the box set anyways, just so I could have the commentaries and clearer quality.

[ToasterOnFire]

I wish they would put out the US boxed set before SGA 2 started, though.

Agreed! I think it's an awfully long time to wait between the end of the season in March/April here and the full boxed set in November. I don't know how long it takes to add in the commentarties, etc, but if they were speedy I bet they could get it out by a month later. At least start selling the boxed set in July when the next season starts!
And syndication already? I thought you had to have several seasons under your belt before you could do that.

Hmm.
So in the US - downloads are illegal but taping off tv isn't and presumably lending tapes or even the bought DVD's to a friend is legal, but is copying a DVD to lend to a friend? I'm pretty sure even backing up a bought DVD in Uk is illegal, something about fair use rights not being same here - something that hasn't to my knowledge gone to court and so has no precedent but so far you can't even make legitimate mp3's for cd's you own.

Okay, here's what my DMCA-educated (but not a lawyer) officemate says:

Downloading mp3s or movies - illegal
Making mp3s of your own CDs - legal (unless you specifically bypass some encryption to make the files)
Making computer file movies (Divx) of your own DVDs - illegal (!)
Making copies of DVDs and mailing them to others - illegal
Taping TV episodes and mailing a copy or a couple copies for free to others - likely legal as long as the episode was not on pay-per-view TV.

Personally I wish they'd sell downloads of tv shows. Downloads for me are so much more convenient and why should the UK have to wait to see episodes, I've never understood the reasoning for bringing film or TV out months before in US/Canada. I mean with downloads I've be willing to pay a subscription to a virtual channel, like scifi.com, and then be able to download X episodes a month from them. I'd probably even buy the DVD's anyway if the show is good enough (like SGA ) since downloads would be lesser quality and lacking special features. They've already done this for old The Bill episodes inthe Uk but waiting for it to catch on more generally. If they have legal MP3 download systems then film/tv legal downloads seems the next step - just waiting for the industry to catch onto the idea.

Yeah, they could make a lot of money if they offered episodes for download quickly after the episode airs on TV. I imagine something like that is in the works. Of course, people are still going to go that extra mile to download the episodes for free, especially since those programs, etc were available before the pay-per-view programs. Look at mp3s; even though lots of people buy legal songs on iTunes there are still tons who use P2P programs to get the songs for free.



Okay, back to McKay/Weir in my next post.

[aaobuttons]

Anyone else notice the abundance of future children stories that are McKay/Weir?

First there was the Solar Flare Saga, then there was What if they hadn't come and now McRaider has started one. I'm sure I've read more too and just not remembered names. Is future kids fic just something everyone is tempted to write, much like doing a Mary Sue?

Of course there's at least one more on the way, ey MA and Em.

But are there certain scenarios people are tempted to write? Is it okay to give in and write them, or should they be avoided at all costs? I guess this raises the point of whether a gifted writer can overcome such cliches.

I don't know if it's an abundance really. I mean, how many fics have you read of Rodney dying or injured.... lots. But I do see your point, it happens more than in SG1 I think (I don't read alot of SG1 but I don't notice alot). I think maybe the temptation is there because until

Spoiler:

we learned that for season 2 they will have contact with Earth, they were pretty much a lone outpost which leads to the obvious train of thought that eventually people would be pairing up and having kids.

If the story is done well I like to read them, I liked McRaider's story because it used the kids to advance the plot a bit and give foreshadowing, it wasn't just about the kids.

I say let people write what they want, In a world of billions and billions of people, every story and every idea has already been thought of and used. I think it's up to the writer to make it interesting and enjoyable.

Another scenario I see alot is the Rodney/Elizabeth/John triangle. It's the obvious triangle so I'm not really suprised by it, but I'd kind of like to see some different pairing. Maybe Rodney/Elizabeth/Carson? I still like to read the triangle ones though as people have different takes on them and if they are well written become unique in their own right.

[aaobuttons]

Agreed! I think it's an awfully long time to wait between the end of the season in March/April here and the full boxed set in November. I don't know how long it takes to add in the commentarties, etc, but if they were speedy I bet they could get it out by a month later. At least start selling the boxed set in July when the next season starts!
And syndication already? I thought you had to have several seasons under your belt before you could do that.

I think they should always release before the next season starts, that way you can get people to join the new season. That's what I did for The 4400. I missed the first season when it aired, so I bought it when it came out on DVD so now I can watch the 2nd season when it airs this summer. I wouldn't watch season 2 if I hadn't seen season 1 first. Waiting till November to put out season 1 will just make people not tune in for the start of Season 2.

[aaobuttons]

I'd also like to ask, do you all give feedback for fanfiction? I've noticed not many stories get much feedback on ff.net and especially on wraithbait (where authors can tell how many views they've had). I make a point of reviewing stories I read most of the time but somehow it seems there's always a large percentage on readers for any story who don't review - why is that? Too busy, didn't like it, had nothing to add? Do you as a reader feel you ought to give feedback or is it something unecessary?

Well there's probably enough there for discussion, talk to everyone later.

Well, I usually give feedback to stories unless I really don't like them. I don't want to tell people they are horrible. If I can find some good points, I'll put the bad ones in there too because that to me is constructive at least. And I'm always ready to gush at somebody who writes something I really like. I don't read stuff on wraithbait (except McRaiders), I just don't go to that site unless somebody puts a link up about a story.

[ToasterOnFire]

Okay, I want to raise an issue I've been noticing coming up around the forums. Ship name amalgamations.

There seem to be quite a number of people who it really gets on the nerves of and I have to admit it bugs me now, when every ship has on (Feyla?! Teykay?! What would Weir/Beckett end up as?!). I'm pretty sure at the start there was only Sheyla, Mcweir and maybe Shweir/Sheir which never caught on with Shep/Weir shippers - by now it's getting a little ridiculous. I'm wondering if it's still a good idea to have the sites on McWeir.com or if WeirMckay.com would be better (thoughts on that welcomed).

So, what do people think?
Does using cutesy meshed names for a ship degrade or detract from serious discussion?
Does it project an image of shippers being fluffy preteens?
Or is just some fun that's got carried away and something to show shippers aren't deadly serious and intent on taking over the world?

Discussion please.

Hee, I think I'm the only one here that leans toward McKay/Weir over McWeir. I guess I just like the more formal side of McKay/Weir. It's not that I'm offended by McWeir, more like I see it as some new McDonalds food-type product. I do know it drives some people absolutely nuts (thinking of someone in particular here... ), but I haven't seen any actual shippers be upset by it.

I know McWeir is easier to type so I can understand why so many people like to use it. And I do think it's sort of cute, but I don't think it affects us in a negative way since we do have so many serious and interesting discussions along with the sqee. I think it's nice to include some cuteness because it shows we're humorous and don't take the ship too seriously.

I can only see the term McWeir negatively influencing people who aren't shippers; it might make them think we're all "fluffy preteens". However, if they don't take the time to come on this thread and read all of our deep discussions to see the other side then that's their problem. Does anyone think it drives away potential McKay/Weir shippers? I don't think so, and would hope not!

The Shep/Teyla shippers don't seem to have a problem with either Sheyla or Shepmagan. I know the Shep/Weir shippers started off with "Shweir" but at a later point there was an active attempt to stop using that term. Lots of people thought it was slang for something inappropriate, but it may have also been a subtle attempt to stop using a term many saw as "fluffy preteen"?

I think the McKay/Weir website domain name should stay Mcweir.com/net/etc rather than Mckayweir.com. First, it's shorter and easier to remember. Second, it avoids the confusion of remembering if it's Mckayweir.com or Weirmckay.com (both combinations are used by shippers). Of course, I don't normally remember domain names, I just bookmark or do a Yahoo search if desperate.
But I'm torn over whether the actual website should be McWeir central or McKay/Weir central. I lean toward the latter, but I can see why it should be McWeir central. I guess in the end it really doesn't matter to me; I'll happily contribute to the site and visit either way!

[ToasterOnFire]

Been thinking about Hide and Seek some more.

Spoiler:

Thought it was interesting that Rodney was the first on the table for the human gene therapy trials. I think it's mostly because he wants to be able to use the Ancient devices himself and not be dependent on others, but perhaps there's another, more subconscious reason? Back in Rising Elizabeth gently teased him over not having the ATA gene. Maybe he took that teasing seriously and was worried about not being good enough for her, at least for being on her Atlantis team if not something deeper? So maybe he rushed to get the gene both for himself and also to prove himself in a way to Elizabeth?

Last night when I was watching SGA, listening to Mckay speak, I noticed again how cute it is when he says Weir's name. He mushes "Elizabeth" from 4 syllables to two, making it more like "lisbeth." No one else does that and it sounds adorable when he says it. Sorry... ...that just keeps running through my head!

Anyone else notice that?

He does! I never noticed until now! Hee, now I'm going to have this wicked grin everytime he does it. Looks like her name gets smashed down like just about every other word out of his mouth.

[aaobuttons]

Hehe, made a couple cute puzzles!

http://two.flash-gear.com/npuz/puz.p...099&k=53379120
http://two.flash-gear.com/npuz/puz.p...112&k=17341739

[Purpleyin]

Making mp3s of your own CDs - legal (unless you specifically bypass some encryption to make the files)

I'm pretty sure this one is illegal too I the UK, bit crazy that you can't backup stuff you bought but...

Yeah, they could make a lot of money if they offered episodes for download quickly after the episode airs on TV. I imagine something like that is in the works. Of course, people are still going to go that extra mile to download the episodes for free, especially since those programs, etc were available before the pay-per-view programs. Look at mp3s; even though lots of people buy legal songs on iTunes there are still tons who use P2P programs to get the songs for free.

But one thing about getting them off the company is you know the audiosync will be fine, they could presumably offer subtitles too and you'd have dedicated servers for the job. Only thing puts me of is it'd probably be proprietary format... If I owned it I'd like to be able to make music vids from it but unless the codec was cracked (illegal) then wouldn't be able to, but then music vids are illegal anyway, just no one is bothering with them and it seems more likely the music industry might do at some point.

Another advantage of buying them off company is that torrents etc on p2p die, after first month or so, less people share and you usually would only find last 4 or so episodes - if company has them you could easily buy one episodes you missed or episodes from seasons ago etc - making it more flexible for consumer than trying to download other ways.

There's one program in particular I'd love to be able to download - 7 days, shortlived (3 seasons) scifi show and it never came out of DVd or VHS despite fan requests. My only hope of seeing currently would be to download it illegally or find someone to borrow/buy tapes off - pretty much makes it illegal for me to see it unless they start showing it on BBC or a cable channel in the UK. And I would pay quite a bit of money to see the rest of s1 and all of s2 and s3 (episode 3.21 has David Nykl in!)

But yes, back to Mckay/Weir..

[Purpleyin]

Another scenario I see alot is the Rodney/Elizabeth/John triangle. It's the obvious triangle so I'm not really suprised by it, but I'd kind of like to see some different pairing. Maybe Rodney/Elizabeth/Carson? I still like to read the triangle ones though as people have different takes on them and if they are well written become unique in their own right.

I'd be quite interested in Weir/Zelenka/Mckay. If anyone is up for it there's a OT3 ficathon going on at http://www.livejournal.com/community/atlantis_ot3/

Link to entry page
http://www.livejournal.com/users/wis...le/450298.html

Of course you can request two different pairings but only one gets done (I think) and you in turn have to write a story. I signed up.

There are already some interesting pairings, including Sam/Mckay/Weir.
Personally I went for crazier ones, Teyla/Bates/Ford and Zelenka/Grodin/Mckay (can't have too many geeks...)

[Purpleyin]

Been thinking about Hide and Seek some more.

Spoiler:

Thought it was interesting that Rodney was the first on the table for the human gene therapy trials. I think it's mostly because he wants to be able to use the Ancient devices himself and not be dependent on others, but perhaps there's another, more subconscious reason? Back in Rising Elizabeth gently teased him over not having the ATA gene. Maybe he took that teasing seriously and was worried about not being good enough for her, at least for being on her Atlantis team if not something deeper? So maybe he rushed to get the gene both for himself and also to prove himself in a way to Elizabeth?

Spoiler:

Do you think there's an element of competition here too?
Sheppard's a natural and Mckay doesn't want to be inferior... so he risks the therapy to improve himself and show he's better? though funnily enough he doesn't seem to think less of her for not having it. ;D

[ToasterOnFire]

I'd be quite interested in Weir/Zelenka/Mckay. If anyone is up for it there's a OT3 ficathon going on at http://www.livejournal.com/community/atlantis_ot3/

There are already some interesting pairings, including Sam/Mckay/Weir.
Personally I went for crazier ones, Teyla/Bates/Ford and Zelenka/Grodin/Mckay (can't have too many geeks...)

...Wow! What a huge combinations of pairings! Shep/Weir/McKay is obvious, but never heard of McKay/Weir/Sam! Man oh man would Rodney be happy in that one! And McKay/Weir/Zelenka! Two geeks for the gal!
Haven't seen too much OT3 with Shep/Teyla/other though. Wait, there was one Shep/Teyla/Rodney mention. Looks like fans prefer Weir as the gal-in-the-middle for their OT3 dreams.

Lots of possibilities too for Rodney/Elizabeth/other. Teyla could work (woohoo T/E fans!). Trying to think which of the other Atlantis guys would be interested in Elizabeth and/or Rodney. Carson? Maybe. Zelenka certainly could have a thing for Elizbeth ("You are the loop" hee!). Bates? Not so sure. Ford? Not likely. Kavanaugh? Ugh.

Forgot the most evil OT3 pairing! Rodney/Elizabeth/Kolya!