Rodney McKay/Elizabeth Weir Discussion/Ship/Appreciation

[ToasterOnFire]

I thought it was you but maybe I'm mistaken... it was so very long ago now. Something about Rodney taking the opportunity to kiss fake!Elizabeth when he realised he was being fooled. Ring any bells?

I don't remember a vid, but I do remember that it was one of my fic ideas. What would Rodney have done with the time between realizing that Elizabeth was fake and when he got pulled back with everyone? Would he have indulged in a bittersweet kiss because he knew she was fake?

I have a quesiton for any veteran shippers--was there any information suggesting that TPTB were setting up a Liz/Rodney ship in the beginning?

Am I a veteran shipper? Hee hee.

I never saw any interviews that implied that TPTB were setting up a M/W ship in the beginning of the show. There was that one early interview with Torri where she joked about Elizabeth and Rodney, but I haven't seen anything on David's end nor have I seen anything from the producers/writers/etc. Of course, everyone seems really tight-lipped about any Atlantis ship - I rarely see it brought up unless they're directly asked about it in interviews. And then they seem to take great pleasure in giving mysterious replies...Yank that chain!!

Come to think about it, I've never seen this interview where TPTB say that S/T was there in the beginning. Does it really exist or is it just fandom interpretation?


Regarding Epiphany:

Spoiler:

I also really liked the moments between Rodney and Elizabeth in this episode. He expressed his concern about Elizabeth going through the field and shielded her when shooting at the beast. And then she gave him the eye when he argued about the ZPM at the end.

Plus there was that wonderfully cute scene in the cave. It was so amusing that he wanted her to sit right next to him, especially since he'd never do that for anyone else. (Okay, maybe Sam. But Sam's taken so nyah! ) It was just more of an indication that he's very comfortable around her, or perhaps has a teensy crush?

But why did Elizabeth pointedly avoid sitting where he wanted? Maybe she did want to sit near him, just not THAT near him? Maybe she's not comfortable doing anything that casual on away missions? Maybe she was still a bit miffed after their spat before they went through the field?

[dahan]

...
I have a quesiton for any veteran shippers--was there any information suggesting that TPTB were setting up a Liz/Rodney ship in the beginning? I know early on TPTB were promoting a Shep/Teyla relationship and the promo pictures reflect that. I noticed, looking through some of the early promo photos in the SGA ep guide, that Liz and Rodney are often pictured together. I also just watched "Hide and Seek" which a great Elizabeth and Rodney ep, so it seemed they might have wanted to go that way early on.

Just a thought--hopefully there will be more Weir/Rodney scenes soon!

Thanks,
Royal

I don't qualify as verteran, but

I think that us shippers really read into the the issue of "personal space" between Weir and McKay in season one. Prior to me fully shipping for them though the pics kind of made sense to me as the two head civilians in solidarity. Only thing I can remember as a TPTB push is a David Hewlett interview saying "there's some history..." but that's really hardly anything unless you want it to be.

..but I think the problem here is having too many ships in the series..and especially with too many of the main characters...

You're quicker than me for realizing that...

Spoiler:

That only hit me sort of after the Ronon and Teyla scenes started to increase. To me it almost seemed like, by introducing Ronon to be with Teyla, they were totally eliminating the biggest obstacle to a Shep/Weir canon in which case the writers could slowly be boxing themselves into a place that they might not neccessarily want to be. This might go back to NotANumber's comment about Caldwell being a push to Shep/Weir relationship too.

Still, as long as SGA is still one of the best Science Fiction Fixes around I don't mind.

Come to think about it, I've never seen this interview where TPTB say that S/T was there in the beginning. Does it really exist or is it just fandom interpretation?

One of the first SGA specials, From Stargate to Atlantis (or something like that) Rachel Lutrell mentioned the "immediate connection" with Shep. I pretty much thought that that was flat out canon, but I think they've since down played it. Joe Flanigan also mentions something about the early on chemisty for the two characters in the DVD commentary for "Rising".

Regarding Epiphany:

Spoiler:

I also really liked the moments between Rodney and Elizabeth in this episode. He expressed his concern about Elizabeth going through the field and shielded her when shooting at the beast. And then she gave him the eye when he argued about the ZPM at the end.

Plus there was that wonderfully cute scene in the cave. It was so amusing that he wanted her to sit right next to him, especially since he'd never do that for anyone else. (Okay, maybe Sam. But Sam's taken so nyah! ) It was just more of an indication that he's very comfortable around her, or perhaps has a teensy crush?

But why did Elizabeth pointedly avoid sitting where he wanted? Maybe she did want to sit near him, just not THAT near him? Maybe she's not comfortable doing anything that casual on away missions? Maybe she was still a bit miffed after their spat before they went through the field?

Those scenes were great weren't they?

Spoiler:

I thought it was kind of a subtle sweetness that Rodney was practically in charge of the entire rescue mission (to a point) while Elizabeth was just letting him go on.

Depending on your intereptation, it was either because she was distracted for concern for Shep and Rodney knew well enough to takeover for her or she seemed rather stunned by being "impressed" by his assertiveness for being in command.

Believe it or not, either intereptation works for me.

Though I think perhaps Rodney's coming to a quiet acceptance about the Shep and Weir relationship. Can't really blame the guy.

As a sidenote, anybody get the sense that they might be relying on Rodney to a point where it seemed like unfair blame? Everybody was looking at him and Ronon even threatened to hurl him through the thing. (Reminded me of that time he threatened to kill Ford in "The Hive") Ehh..maybe it's just me

I only have one comment regarding the scene in the cave:
Perhaps 5 minutes isn't enough time?

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Am I a veteran shipper? Hee hee.

Defintely

I never saw any interviews that implied that TPTB were setting up a M/W ship in the beginning of the show. There was that one early interview with Torri where she joked about Elizabeth and Rodney, but I haven't seen anything on David's end nor have I seen anything from the producers/writers/etc. Of course, everyone seems really tight-lipped about any Atlantis ship - I rarely see it brought up unless they're directly asked about it in interviews. And then they seem to take great pleasure in giving mysterious replies...Yank that chain!!

Come to think about it, I've never seen this interview where TPTB say that S/T was there in the beginning. Does it really exist or is it just fandom interpretation?

That's a good question; I've heard various paraphrasings, but I've never seen any direct quotes--I'll have to go take a look for something more conrete.
Regarding Epiphany:

Spoiler:

I also really liked the moments between Rodney and Elizabeth in this episode. He expressed his concern about Elizabeth going through the field and shielded her when shooting at the beast. And then she gave him the eye when he argued about the ZPM at the end.

Plus there was that wonderfully cute scene in the cave. It was so amusing that he wanted her to sit right next to him, especially since he'd never do that for anyone else. (Okay, maybe Sam. But Sam's taken so nyah! ) It was just more of an indication that he's very comfortable around her, or perhaps has a teensy crush?

But why did Elizabeth pointedly avoid sitting where he wanted? Maybe she did want to sit near him, just not THAT near him? Maybe she's not comfortable doing anything that casual on away missions? Maybe she was still a bit miffed after their spat before they went through the field?

Maybe she was a bit miffed! Camy's observation was a good one. The fact that

Spoiler:

Liz didn't sit next to him seems to say more than if she had.

Toaster--I missed some of the ep, do you have a pic of Rodney

Spoiler:

shielding Liz?

That sounds like a great pic!

Thanks
Royal

[ToasterOnFire]

Spoiler:

That only hit me sort of after the Ronon and Teyla scenes started to increase. To me it almost seemed like, by introducing Ronon to be with Teyla, they were totally eliminating the biggest obstacle to a Shep/Weir canon in which case the writers could slowly be boxing themselves into a place that they might not neccessarily want to be. This might go back to NotANumber's comment about Caldwell being a push to Shep/Weir relationship too.

Spoiler:

Yeah, I kind of get the feeling that they may be pushing a Teyla/Ronan ship because those two are always together. I've been getting the same feeling recently with Shep/Weir - most of Elizabeth's scenes are either with him or worried about him. This action worries me a bit. I am disappointed that we haven't seen as many Rodney/Elizabeth scenes this season, but I'm more concerned that TPTB are writing the women into a corner because they're almost exclusively focusing on their interactions with their potential romantic interests. I worry that they're writing the women into ship boxes similar to what happened with Sam and the Sam/Jack ship...

And I absolutely dislike the idea of two simultaneous ships on the show. It doubles the chance of bogging down the show with romance instead of exploration and action.

One of the first SGA specials, From Stargate to Atlantis (or something like that) Rachel Lutrell mentioned the "immediate connection" with Shep. I pretty much thought that that was flat out canon, but I think they've since down played it. Joe Flanigan also mentions something about the early on chemisty for the two characters in the DVD commentary for "Rising".

Interesting, thanks for that.

Spoiler:

Though I think perhaps Rodney's coming to a quiet acceptance about the Shep and Weir relationship. Can't really blame the guy.

Spoiler:

Hmmm...would he really be okay with Shep and Weir when he knew how much Shep enjoys flirting with other women? I always thought he'd be overly protective of Elizabeth and find the flaws in just about anyone she fancied.

Spoiler:

As a sidenote, anybody get the sense that they might be relying on Rodney to a point where it seemed like unfair blame? Everybody was looking at him and Ronon even threatened to hurl him through the thing. (Reminded me of that time he threatened to kill Ford in "The Hive") Ehh..maybe it's just me

Spoiler:

Yeah, I did get the sense that everyone was relying on Rodney and getting impatient with him to boot. Maybe his impatience toward others and his insistance that only he can solve problems is backfiring? Ronon was a bit cranky with Rodney, but after the Conan and Xena comment I see that the sword cuts both ways!

Toaster--I missed some of the ep, do you have a pic of Rodney

Spoiler:

shielding Liz?

That sounds like a great pic!

All of my screencaps are posted here. The scene in question is scene 4.

[dahan]

Spoiler:

Hmmm...would he really be okay with Shep and Weir when he knew how much Shep enjoys flirting with other women? I always thought he'd be overly protective of Elizabeth and find the flaws in just about anyone she fancied.

Spoiler:

Overprotective of Elizabeth, yea. But all things considered, Shep is Rodney's buddy. I can't really see him going out of his way to stop the relationship from happening, should it happen...

I'm actually finding myself laughing at the "Kirking". I know people aren't exactly happy about it ,but seriously, what a character flaw to have!

Although, I'm a little worried of what kind of backlash it might invite. I'm reminded of the Vanessa Angel reaction on SG-1, which really was quite surprising IMO.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

[spoiler]

Spoiler:

Hmmm...would he really be okay with Shep and Weir when he knew how much Shep enjoys flirting with other women? I always thought he'd be overly protective of Elizabeth and find the flaws in just about anyone she fancied.

Great point, and I agree. dahan makes a good point that Shep is Rodney's friend, but I think he would be hyper concerned for Liz. The same way she is for him (as seen in "Trinity")

All of my screencaps are posted here. The scene in question is scene 4.

Thanks for the caps--they're great. dahan, I'm not too familiar with SG-1 yet, what was the Vanessa Angel incident?

Thanks for the info,
Royal

[Jeyla4ever]

Well, I hope you guys don't mind a little challenge...I don't agree with some of the things you mention here as far as Shep/Teyla, Weir/Shep, Ronon/Teyla, Rodney/Shep....but those have their own threads...so I won't go into them...

What I will write is that I agree with Toaster..two ships is a definite..NONO!
It wouldn't work in this show...not like this anyways, and not with main characters...that is why I am avoiding any other ships and just sticking with the one that I see...some like to ship various so that whichever happens, their shippy heart won't be completely broken, and I wish I had that ability, but I don't...I am however, expressing the fact that next to my personal ship, this is definetly my second choice and one that I would be very happy with and can see working...

Rodney wouldn't object to any relationship, IMO...he is not one to be very good at this sort of thing, and I don't believe he would be dumb enough to open his mouth and give any type of opinion on the matter besides his regular obnoxious comments to everything...even if he were to start a relationship, I could see him just making comments about himself and his partner...he is just that crude! but I still like him, a lot....as the season progressess...strangely, but very true...

[dahan]

Thanks for the caps--they're great. dahan, I'm not too familiar with SG-1 yet, what was the Vanessa Angel incident?

Thanks for the info,
Royal

Vanessa Angel played the Tokra, Freya/Anise for three eps in SG-1. Check the Onmnipedia for more info about the character.

As I remember it, some fans of the show felt that her presence, with some influence from her wardrobe, was purly male eye candy (not my words) and even made the show somewhat tawdry. It didn't exactly advance the role of women in science fiction if you know what I mean (which appears to be an issue in SGA currently huh?). Ultimately, the fan response was loud enough to ensure that her character would never return.

I have mix feelings about the incident myself, but that's for another thread.

[Purpleyin]

I have a quesiton for any veteran shippers--was there any information suggesting that TPTB were setting up a Liz/Rodney ship in the beginning? I know early on TPTB were promoting a Shep/Teyla relationship and the promo pictures reflect that. I noticed, looking through some of the early promo photos in the SGA ep guide, that Liz and Rodney are often pictured together. I also just watched "Hide and Seek" which a great Elizabeth and Rodney ep, so it seemed they might have wanted to go that way early on.

I don't think there were, about the closest thing to that as DH once mentioning he thought the two had history but he was quick to say he didn't mean romantic history.

With the beginning episodes it's fair to say that TPTB did make it seem like Rodney and Elizabeth were fairly close, as friends only I mean, given Rodney doesn't appear prone towards having friends back then or interacting well with women sometimes because of his attitude. But then again they had things like 38 minutes with the ambigious thing Sheppard wanted to say, as many little things that could be taken as hints as for any other ship even if Hide & Seek had it's moments for possible McKay/Weir (and Rising too - the opening chair scene). I think if they were either incidental or TPTB testing or playing with little bits. Though really I think it's probably that none were intended and people just happen to see them.

Well, I hope you guys don't mind a little challenge...I don't agree with some of the things you mention here as far as Shep/Teyla, Weir/Shep, Ronon/Teyla, Rodney/Shep....but those have their own threads...so I won't go into them...

What I will write is that I agree with Toaster..two ships is a definite..NONO!
It wouldn't work in this show...not like this anyways, and not with main characters...that is why I am avoiding any other ships and just sticking with the one that I see...some like to ship various so that whichever happens, their shippy heart won't be completely broken, and I wish I had that ability, but I don't...I am however, expressing the fact that next to my personal ship, this is definetly my second choice and one that I would be very happy with and can see working...

Rodney wouldn't object to any relationship, IMO...he is not one to be very good at this sort of thing, and I don't believe he would be dumb enough to open his mouth and give any type of opinion on the matter besides his regular obnoxious comments to everything...even if he were to start a relationship, I could see him just making comments about himself and his partner...he is just that crude! but I still like him, a lot....as the season progressess...strangely, but very true...

Um, was there meant to be a challenge in this post? You start off saying that but I couldn't find mention of one, Was just wondering if you intended to say but forgot.

As for two ships. Two blatant ships would be odd. I'm of the opinion one ship done fully would probably take alot of time, so really I'm hoping any ship that is done is subtle or at least if not subtle and taking up screen time, it should advance both characters. This is why I'm wary of if they do Shep/Weir, I'm not sure that it would be a good thing when his characterization on his own hasn't been good this season considering the 'kirking' and I've felt Elizabeth has too often been portrayed this season as having a sudden implicit trust of him that means she just goes with his decisions. I don't even think she'd do that with Rodney if there was ship there, so it jars with me to have her be sort of potentially wimpy and soppy waiting around for Shep. She's a strong independant women, supposedly, but she doesn't feel much like that on show often. They haven't tackled the issue of her leadership well really. She's always getting overuled or persuaded in the first half of s2.

But anyway, I'm hoping they won't do outright ship on the show at all. I like the interpretating moments thing alot more. Everyone can be kept happy then. As for shows that do this sort of thing well, BSG I love. You could read so many ships into it and it even has a few ships for recurring characters (which are less risky to ship really), though I suppose it does have two opposing actual ships from Season 1, but somehow I feel they way they do ship works fine because it's open to so much interpretation.

Although, I'm a little worried of what kind of backlash it might invite. I'm reminded of the Vanessa Angel reaction on SG-1, which really was quite surprising IMO.

I was surprised by that too, finding out about it much after wards because i'm more into SGa fandom and wasn't around for the actual event. My housemates had no idea either because they aren't on forums at all and it really surprised them. I know they're guys, but they don't tend to like eye candy only characters as far as I'm aware and they never had a problem with her. Neither did I. It's one of those weird things I've heard of that seems really quite an overblown issue IMO.

Anyway, dahan - and other who have vids on the McWeir page - if you can give me the following info I can make more detailed, prettier listings for you. I just need:

Song details, vid title, spoiler info and summary - plus a 320 by 240 picture (with title or whatever you like on it) to go next to it. Filesize and length I can get on my own but the other stuff I'd prefer the vidders to provide me to make sure I get it correct.

Also, can I pimp the mckay/weir central forums to everyone... We haven't got a spoiler mod, nor a thread reply notification thing yet, but it does have the advantage that you can start threads to discuss particular M/W topics separate from other discussion. We have variety of relationship discussion threads, including a friendship one. Plus vidding, fanfic sections etc. And if you sign up it means you can also comment on site news, the vds page and submit web links etc to the system for approval and addition. So, anyone likely to come on over?

[aaobuttons]

I was wondering when you were due, seems a long time since you told everyone. Hope you're feeling well and not too tired.

I'm officially due April 14th, and it has been a long time! I'm 27 weeks along, and I have tired spurts, I'll be good for a few weeks, and then for a few weeks it's just work and bed, but the pregnancy seems to be going better than my last one in which I had to go on partial bed rest. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

One important thing to note for WMM users is you are not limited to what comes with in terms of transitions. I recently found the official MS forums and there were links to sites that had user-created transitions and effects and all sorts - even how to do a little lay-over of, say your name, like I've seen people with pay-for programs have.

This site here should help if you're starting out and for any extras you can't currently do but might make use of. I haven't applied any for my install yet so can't comment but I'm excited at being able to use extras without having to spend money of a different program. I know WMM isn't fantastic but I've been doing fine with it so far and I haven't found any free programs that will do the same stuff.

I currently have a few vid ideas spinning around my head, the S/T one I'm hopnig to get round too and also a sad angty M/W one - like Fanwomans fic 'Just Friends' mood but in vid form... But I've been busy with fic today, and inviting people to the fic archive too. We now have 92 stories uploaded.

Thanks for that info, I'll have to check it out. And yea for more vids! Did you get that music file I sent you last week?

[aaobuttons]

Regarding Epiphany:

Spoiler:

But why did Elizabeth pointedly avoid sitting where he wanted? Maybe she did want to sit near him, just not THAT near him? Maybe she's not comfortable doing anything that casual on away missions? Maybe she was still a bit miffed after their spat before they went through the field?

I've always taken that scene that

Spoiler:

she was still mad at him about not wanting her to go through the portal. I do the exact same thing with my husband, when we disagree or have a tiff about something and then he tries something friendly like taking my hand, I'll pull it away. Or if he tries to throw a compliment my way, I'll ignore him. Rodney was making a friendly, playful gesture to sit next to him and she chose to do the exact opposite and sit at the far end of the cave!

Overprotective of Elizabeth, yea. But all things considered, Shep is Rodney's buddy. I can't really see him going out of his way to stop the relationship from happening, should it happen...

Rodney wouldn't object to any relationship, IMO...he is not one to be very good at this sort of thing, and I don't believe he would be dumb enough to open his mouth and give any type of opinion on the matter besides his regular obnoxious comments to everything...even if he were to start a relationship, I could see him just making comments about himself and his partner...he is just that crude! but I still like him, a lot....as the season progressess...strangely, but very true...

I think he would object to a romantic pairing of Elizabeth with Sheppard. Rodney is very protective of Elizabeth as we saw in Epiphany, as well as The Storm and The Eye, and many other episodes. Friend or not, he doesn't approve of Shep's kirking as indicated by his various comments directed towards that subject. I really don't think he would see a ship between the two as anything serious to Shep (just another conquest). What would Rodney do about it... I don't know really. Probably make several snide comments about it to Shep, maybe try and convince Elizabeth it was a bad move for Atlantis. Rodney isn't one to be silent about things when he doesn't like them, and I just can't see him sitting around on his thumbs.

[Purpleyin]

Thanks for that info, I'll have to check it out. And yea for more vids! Did you get that music file I sent you last week?

Yep, kept meaning to reply but not getting round to it. Have to start the vid, but got fic to finish first.

I've had some fics out yesterday/today and I should point out I've got one fic that's not on ff.net as it's MA rated and my McKay/Weir/Shep attempt - called Interlude - is on my LJ, wraithbait and the archive.

[Jeyla4ever]

Um, was there meant to be a challenge in this post? You start off saying that but I couldn't find mention of one, Was just wondering if you intended to say but forgot.

Bad choice of words..I guess I was trying to point out my views on the different interpretations of the ships mentioned earlier..but like I said, those belong in their own threads...sorry...my mind goes faster than my fingers....

As for two ships. Two blatant ships would be odd. I'm of the opinion one ship done fully would probably take alot of time, so really I'm hoping any ship that is done is subtle or at least if not subtle and taking up screen time, it should advance both characters. This is why I'm wary of if they do Shep/Weir, I'm not sure that it would be a good thing when his characterization on his own hasn't been good this season considering the 'kirking' and I've felt Elizabeth has too often been portrayed this season as having a sudden implicit trust of him that means she just goes with his decisions. I don't even think she'd do that with Rodney if there was ship there, so it jars with me to have her be sort of potentially wimpy and soppy waiting around for Shep. She's a strong independant women, supposedly, but she doesn't feel much like that on show often. They haven't tackled the issue of her leadership well really. She's always getting overuled or persuaded in the first half of s2.

Yeah, I share your same sentiments here...it would be too much for Shep/Weir to get together considering the roles that they have and I just don't see it working and I don't see any romantic implications...I also agree that they really need to improve and tackle more Weir's leadership skills...she has had some wonderful scenes..like in Conversion and then they throw us the Lost Boys and that just didn't do her justice..but the Hive...was another great episode for her...overall, I don't want Atlantis to be about romance..it's about their adventures and how they deal with their personal issues on a day to day level while fighting the bad guys and defeating the Wraith...two ships wouldn't work in this scenario...and like you say, one alone is more than enough!

But anyway, I'm hoping they won't do outright ship on the show at all. I like the interpretating moments thing alot more. Everyone can be kept happy then. As for shows that do this sort of thing well, BSG I love. You could read so many ships into it and it even has a few ships for recurring characters (which are less risky to ship really), though I suppose it does have two opposing actual ships from Season 1, but somehow I feel they way they do ship works fine because it's open to so much interpretation.

Well, here I am divided..I like that they are catering to the fans somewhat, but then they are also doing the kirking and then you wonder where they are going with it...and in my view, it is hurting the characters because you think how are they going to react to all of this..if they are even going to react...just too much at once..I think! The other side to this is that every ship sees little scenes and then they get their hopes high and then comes another scene that crushes you...and I personally, feel that they should just decide by either next season or the following one, and not turn it into a full blown relationship but that it continues to grow and develop without the sidelines innuendos...but, hey...I am happy with the little moments that we see...

I think he would object to a romantic pairing of Elizabeth with Sheppard. Rodney is very protective of Elizabeth as we saw in Epiphany, as well as The Storm and The Eye, and many other episodes. Friend or not, he doesn't approve of Shep's kirking as indicated by his various comments directed towards that subject. I really don't think he would see a ship between the two as anything serious to Shep (just another conquest). What would Rodney do about it... I don't know really. Probably make several snide comments about it to Shep, maybe try and convince Elizabeth it was a bad move for Atlantis. Rodney isn't one to be silent about things when he doesn't like them, and I just can't see him sitting around on his thumbs.

Great observation, because having Rodney come between the two people in Atlantis that he cares the most..and probably in his entire life besides his sister, Jenny.. would be too complicated and would just turn into a bad soap opera.....JMHO!

[dahan]

Anyway, dahan - and other who have vids on the McWeir page - if you can give me the following info I can make more detailed, prettier listings for you. I just need:

...

You would think having a link to the vid archive in my sig would remind me to do that...

Sorry, everything was sent via the contact form just a couple mins ago. Also pushed me to finally register there Thanks so much for everything.

[aaobuttons]

You would think having a link to the vid archive in my sig would remind me to do that...

Sorry, everything was sent via the contact form just a couple mins ago. Also pushed me to finally register there Thanks so much for everything.

You know... It's not just about the registering... It's about the posting too!